Why?
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Next Manager?
- Thread starter StephenH
- Start date
I could easily see us ending up with Southgate or Martinez I'm afraid.
I wouldnt be surprised if the only people left on Levy's list above them are ETH and Potter.
Hope that paratici is the one that chooses the manager. They'll have to work together afterall.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Something just doesn't add up with all this. I am convinced that when we sacked Mourinho, the club had somebody lined up to replace him and it has gone pear shaped. Either they changed their mind and reneged, or their club refused to release them. There is no way we would sack a manager in the blind hope of finding one via interview. When was the last time we did that?
Careful, you might be treading in logical territory ..
Maybe it was a last ditch attempt to grab Nagelsmann but it proved too late. Or Mourinho was more toxic than we know? I can imagine Sonny coming in crying every day and asking everyone ‘why can’t we all just be friends?!’...
Regardless, it all looks a bit of a mess, to me at least.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
The thing is, it's one thing to not have a manager signed up by now, totally different to sack Jose just before a cup final.
Yes, all odd.
I mean, which manager in the world would say they'd take just before a cup final against a heavy favourite in Emirates Marketing Project??
Hoddle? How long was that, 6 months?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Your intuition on the alternative to the ‘negative’ is just as likely as my intuition though?
And why’s it a negative? Why is no one arguing that actually, being seen to be positive and ambitious is great for the club, because we get associated with big names, we sell more tickets, get invited to more prestige competitions and ultimately boost our balance sheet?
This idea of my being negative plays into connotations around agendas and camps, and frankly all I’ve been trying to do is have a specific debate about our use of the media as a club, because I think it fits a repeated pattern. I think that’s a completely fair thing to be interested in, if the club are trying to create a ‘sense’ of ambition rather than actually being so. Exactly how ambitious we really are should be something we are able to consider, because it is going to effect how members of the fan base choose to spend money on the club, and how engaged they are overall with it.
What he tried to explain you is
- Lets assume we don't know the details, no one does, not even journalists, etc.
Based on that, when some fudging nobody on twitter says something, there are two reactions on this board and most social media
- I don't know, maybe that's true, maybe it isn't, logically that does/doesn't make sense?
or
- See, fudging Levy/ENIC are fudging macarons with no plan, no clue, secretly hoarding the money like a dragon, on and on . and btw, if you disagree or present an alternate option you are a "levy supporter" or "in a cult", need to "open your eyes" etc. etc.
To your point, I mentioned this before,
- I think it's truly bizarre that you really believe that the club strategy is to pretend to be ambitious? to what end? (until we aren't selling seats which hasn't happened yet, it doesn't change brick)
Part of that issue, and this counts to everyone who makes this claim
- You are defining ambitious as spending more money than we have, therefore the only ambitious owners in the PL are those that are spending money the club doesn't have (i.e. they are running a bricky business and/or have a sugar daddy)
- And if that's your only view of ambition, I guess that's your opinion
Personally
- The club will never spend more money that we make (over a multi-year period) because it is a business.
- The ambition is to have the club make more money (via stadium, NFL, etc.), so we can spend more money
- Hence I can't see how the stadium and all the brand work done isn't exactly that = being ambitious
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Probably Baldini. Some hint of Poch requiring more responsibility here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32560825
Then there was his job title change in summer 2016 just before Paul Mitchell left...
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
When all's said and done, maybe our current manager search (which let's be honest is taking longer than we thought it would, given the timing of Jose's sacking) is simply a result of Levy now being 'Levy'd' himself:
You know, a 'general agreement' being in place before a manager changes the terms they want at the last minute etc etc
You know, a 'general agreement' being in place before a manager changes the terms they want at the last minute etc etc
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
With whom did we have a "general agreement" in place?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
No, sorry. None of the debate around the club’s use of the media has related to listening to ‘nobodies on social media.’ Not at least from my end.
Doing this ‘maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t’ allows a powerful person in control of the decision making of our club to avoid scrutiny. It avoids putting a stake in the ground either way. And actually, most people to the opposing side of me in this specific debate aren’t saying ‘maybe / maybe not’, they are saying ‘definitely not’.
I’m not necessarily defining being ambitious as spending more money than we have. In this context, if he brought Poch back, and he was happy with the constraints, I would have been happy. ENIC would have had my support for as long as they trusted him. But in a sense, the calibre of manager we can attract will be influenced by the level of backing we give them.
To what end do the club want to boost their profile? I don’t know - I’ll ask you again - why do they employ a senior PR person on the executive team? You have to explain that if you want to keep saying they don’t care. Why do they sell a lot of seats? Maybe because they’ve done well at creating a sense that this is a club that is going places, and that there is more to come? Maybe ENIC want to take every free opportunity they can to show they are ambitious, because it will avoid questions about whether or not they should invest more money into the club? If enough of the fan base think they have their best interests at heart, they are being ambitious and things are fine as they are, it will keep the pressure off of them.
And again to what end - creating a sense of buzz and engagement around a date that will drive a key metric for the club in season ticket sales I think is an interesting point to consider. It’s not the money in and of itself (Zoom just released their quarterly earnings and are still throwing off cash no problem, but the growth rate has slowed - they will still be a healthy business but investors will question a slowing growth rate always) - more growth rate and churn rate. These are indicators banks and investors will look at to judge the health of the business. If it looks like we’re on a downward slope as it relates to season tickets, maybe we get less favourable rates? Maybe Levy was doing what needed to be done to ensure the financial health of the club?
To your last point - everything you’re saying is off field stuff as it relates to ambition. Stadium work. Brand work. What about bringing in a world class coach? I don’t see how going from Poch to ETH at best can be credibly described as ambitious on the football side, relative to our closest competitors. 3rd to 7th. Champions League to Conference League. Which is why I say when it comes to football matters, we have a history of leaking to friends in the media that we are going to try and go all out for a Dybala, an Aguero, a Conte, only for those deals to fall down for predictable reasons, and in the end we never brick, we always get off the pot.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Yes, agreed, and good use of italics. Perhaps its all going to plan, and perhaps Levy is entirely comfortable with where it is, and he is obviously under no obligation to keep updating fans, media etc....however to me as well, it looks like a mess. Anyone who we approach now will know that they are our xth (insert your own number between 2nd and 6th) choice.
Clubs are getting deals done (Leicester look close to that French CM and the Celtic CF, Spammers have just signed some Chelsea youngster, Villa has signed Buendia, Liverpool appear to be close to the CB from Leipzig, and probably a bunch of others)....yet we dont know who our manager will be yet, but really need to get some key signings made this summer, and a lot of deadwood shifted. Maybe the DoF will do that without the manager....but much better with him....
Let me try to answer this in components
- Having a PR team is part of running a large company, it is NOT equal to creating a "false ambition" program.
- Yes, the club wants a bigger profile but again I can't see the point/value of a multi-year pretense (and let's be clear there is a big difference between not taking a risk, or potentially not taking a final step that might be more aggressive vs. what you are saying is building a dishonest campaign over a long period)
Let's get to the on the field stuff
- We went from Poch to Jose, and this is the perfect example of picking points. Jose failed (let's get that out of the way), but in every measure possible he was a step up, and ambitious play.
- You could argue ETH now is a more qualified manager than Poch was when we hired him. But again - > Chelsea appointed Lampard, United - OGS, Scum - Arteta, Madrid - Zidane, Barca's original Pep appointment, are all of these clubs lacking ambition?
Re the players, two things
- All clubs win some, lose some
- We agreed with Dybala, turned out he had fudged up naming rights that would almost double his price, Hazard didn't come to us because we got 4th and not CL (IIRC), but Modric, Berbatov, VDV, etc. came over other clubs ..
It costs time and money to negotiate with players/managers, I really find weird that you genuinely think we spent two+ weeks talking to Conte with no real intention.
JerusalemMan
Chris Perry
I've been away for nearly a week. It seems I have missed out on a bit of a kerfuffle.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
I don't really see that as an issue tbh. If the job is of interest to someone, then I don't think they'd be put off by that. It happens, that's life, but if you get a job you want in the end, then I don't think it really matters. It does however possibly put that person in a stronger negotiating position.
Not really. Nothings really changed. Next week maybe.