• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Nearly Club? Only For Pessimists

billyiddo said:
Do you think our players would have preferred to finish outside of the european places in the league if it meant they got a league cup winners medal over challenging for the title and missing out? And do you think they'd be more inclined to stay at a club finishing 7th or lower if they won the league cup?


That's the acid test really, had we finished 7th and won the league cup I think we'd have a much higher chance of losing our players than if we challenge for the league title and miss out - which would show that the players rank being competitive in the league over domestic cups
Click to expand...

Not year after year, but for one or two seasons definitely!
 
billyiddo said:
Do you think our players would have preferred to finish outside of the european places in the league if it meant they got a league cup winners medal over challenging for the title and missing out? And do you think they'd be more inclined to stay at a club finishing 7th or lower if they won the league cup?


That's the acid test really, had we finished 7th and won the league cup I think we'd have a much higher chance of losing our players than if we challenge for the league title and miss out - which would show that the players rank being competitive in the league over domestic cups
Click to expand...


Billy mate i do not really disagree with any of that, however we HAVE to win something ( and soon) because finishing in the top four every season but never winning anything will not keep players ( most of them anyway) here.
 
parklane1 said:
Billy mate i do not really disagree with any of that, however we HAVE to win something ( and soon) because finishing in the top four every season but never winning anything will not keep players ( most of them anyway) here.
Click to expand...

Just merely finishing in the top 4 won't keep players here long term I agree, but then afaic neither will winning the domestic cups - the position we are in, punching above our weight, means that our players will be good enough to play for the very best teams in europe - we cant compete with those club on wages so we need to match them on the field and hope the players are happy to forgoe extra money to stay at club they are loyal to and are settled at - matching them on the field meaning to win leagues and European trophies, ultimately our players won't turn down Real Madrid and Barcelona because we win a few FA Cups - but they may do if we show we can match their ambition on the pitch
 
parklane1 said:
Billy mate i do not really disagree with any of that, however we HAVE to win something ( and soon) because finishing in the top four every season but never winning anything will not keep players ( most of them anyway) here.
Click to expand...

Under Poch, we have now finished top 4 two seasons in a row, improving our points total each year. We have reached a final and a semi-final in that time. Given the manager and his stated disappointments despite our highest points total ever, it is wholly acceptable (indeed, reasonable) to see a trophy or few in the next two seasons. And a period of dominance. Do I want trophies? Of course!!! Would I have wanted the FA Cup? Doh!!! Would I rather have won a trophy THIS past season and not finished top 4? No. We need to establish ourselves as a CL club so as players stay to fight for the biggest prizes and we can attract fresh, supreme-talent blood.
I expect next season to be a further improvement.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
billyiddo said:
Just merely finishing in the top 4 won't keep players here long term I agree, but then afaic neither will winning the domestic cups - the position we are in, punching above our weight, means that our players will be good enough to play for the very best teams in europe - we cant compete with those club on wages so we need to match them on the field and hope the players are happy to forgoe extra money to stay at club they are loyal to and are settled at - matching them on the field meaning to win leagues and European trophies, ultimately our players won't turn down Real Madrid and Barcelona because we win a few FA Cups - but they may do if we show we can match their ambition on the pitch
Click to expand...

That means we have to win the CL to keep them? i am as big a fan of Spurs has anyone but even i admit that Madrid and Barca have a far better chance of doing that then we do. If we go through another couple of seasons and win nothing ( we will not win the Champs Lge that soon) then players will leave no matter how many times we make the top four.

Winning something along the way ( while we are learning how to compete in the CL) may make them stay longer though.
 
thfcsteff said:
Under Poch, we have now finished top 4 two seasons in a row, improving our points total each year. We have reached a final and a semi-final in that time. Given the manager and his stated disappointments despite our highest points total ever, it is wholly acceptable (indeed, reasonable) to see a trophy or few in the next two seasons. And a period of dominance. Do I want trophies? Of course!!! Would I have wanted the FA Cup? Doh!!! Would I rather have won a trophy THIS past season and not finished top 4? No. We need to establish ourselves as a CL club so as players stay to fight for the biggest prizes and we can attract fresh, supreme-talent blood.
I expect next season to be a further improvement.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

No one has suggested we should not try and make the top four ( at least i do not think so). We are not a fly by night team anymore, we are a very good one and we should be able to compete at all levels and actually win things as well as making the top four. I am sick to death of fans saying that we can not do so because we do not have a squad to do so, this is not the 90's anymore we have proved over the last decade that we are a team who is as good ( if not better) then most teams and we have a squad that shows this.

To many excuses from fans who say we can not compete for all trophy's, we have a very good side and IF we want to keep it together ( that means keeping all our best player) then we have to start to become a side that WILL pick up cups as well as make the top four. There is a word i hate S pursy and i believe some fans are brainwashed into using it and by doing so convince themselves that we are not good enough to win things now ( not in a couple of years).
 
parklane1 said:
No one has suggested we should not try and make the top four ( at least i do not think so). We are not a fly by night team anymore, we are a very good one and we should be able to compete at all levels and actually win things as well as making the top four. I am sick to death of fans saying that we can not do so because we do not have a squad to do so, this is not the 90's anymore we have proved over the last decade that we are a team who is as good ( if not better) then most teams and we have a squad that shows this.

To many excuses from fans who say we can not compete for all trophy's, we have a very good side and IF we want to keep it together ( that means keeping all our best player) then we have to start to become a side that WILL pick up cups as well as make the top four. There is a word i hate S pursy and i believe some fans are brainwashed into using it and by doing so convince themselves that we are not good enough to win things now ( not in a couple of years).
Click to expand...

I usually love your work but if you think these Poch years have been like the previous 7, then we are at a total disagreement. Furthermore, you 'appear' to be attributing that disgusting 's' word in MY direction. Absurd AND insulting!

You have (IMO) stubbornly chosen to only read what you wanted to in what I actually posted. Read it again. If you still disagree, and still want to throw that shi/te word around, then on this one my friend we will have to heartily disagree!

To reiterate- there js not a supporter I know who doesn't want to win trophies.
And what on earth makes you believe we won't be a team that wins trophies and finishes top 4 starting next season?

Next you'll be telling me that Danny Rose was in no way out of order for his (ahem) 'interview'...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
parklane1 said:
That means we have to win the CL to keep them? i am as big a fan of Spurs has anyone but even i admit that Madrid and Barca have a far better chance of doing that then we do. If we go through another couple of seasons and win nothing ( we will not win the Champs Lge that soon) then players will leave no matter how many times we make the top four.

Winning something along the way ( while we are learning how to compete in the CL) may make them stay longer though.
Click to expand...

Even if we win the CL - players will still leave. Players are not robots.
 
parklane1 said:
To many excuses from fans who say we can not compete for all trophy's, we have a very good side and IF we want to keep it together ( that means keeping all our best player) then we have to start to become a side that WILL pick up cups as well as make the top four.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt we are good enough to compete for all trophies but are you suggesting that we should therefore give the domestic cups the same priority as we do the League?

I could be wrong but I doubt there is a single club in the PL that is prepared to put out their strongest eleven for every domestic cup tie. And that can even include the final stages. But in any case it's rarely necessary because when playing teams from the lower divisions PL clubs know their squad is more than capable of getting a result, and when they're up against another PL side they know their opponents too will field a much weakened team. So it's all about balancing resources.

I do not doubt that Poch chooses the team he believes will be strong enough to win each tie. but cup games are and always have been unpredictable. Underdogs will raise their game and produce shocks, like Wycombe almost did earlier this year. That's what the cups are all about.

Call it making excuses if you wish but it's the clubs that choose to prioritise the League over the domestic cups, not their fans.
 
Winning Cups over finishing 4th all day long for me. Said it a few times but i'd rather the Champions League was only for Champions. Change the Europa League back to the UEFA Cup, same format, and on a different week to the Champions League. Keep the award of a CL place for winning the UEFA and you would find the prestige of winning cups right back in the game.

Basically I want us to win every competition that we enter, and it's frustrating when you get fans of our club almost wanting us to lose certain games. We seem to be laughed at by other clubs for 'bottling' games when it matters, winning the FA Cup this year as well as finishing second may well have changed that. It's about creating a winning mentality. What was the first Cup that Fergie won at United?
 
thfcsteff said:
I usually love your work but if you think these Poch years have been like the previous 7, then we are at a total disagreement. Furthermore, you 'appear' to be attributing that disgusting 's' word in MY direction. Absurd AND insulting!

You have (IMO) stubbornly chosen to only read what you wanted to in what I actually posted. Read it again. If you still disagree, and still want to throw that shi/te word around, then on this one my friend we will have to heartily disagree!

To reiterate- there js not a supporter I know who doesn't want to win trophies.
And what on earth makes you believe we won't be a team that wins trophies and finishes top 4 starting next season?

Next you'll be telling me that Danny Rose was in no way out of order for his (ahem) 'interview'...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...

Steff mate i have no problem with opinion ( lets face it everyone has one) so let me try and answer your points.

( 1) I did not say that (if you think these Poch years have been like the previous 7) what i said was (we have proved over the last decade that we are a team who is as good ( if not better) then most teams and we have a squad that shows this.) My meaning in saying that ( which you have obviously misread) was that over that period of time we have had mostly a year on year improvement and now find ourselves in a posistion where we can/should be looking at winning things.

(2) Where the hell do you get that impression that i am saying you are one of those who are always throwing the word S pursy around ( as far as i am aware i do not recall you ever saying that) , but you know as well as i do they are those who can not wait to say/use it after we have not got the result we want. As i have said i hate the word and it beggers belief that those who do use it are usually bitching about other clubs fans when they throw it in our faces.

(3) You are right about your last comment though, i disagree with your opinion about Rose and think that it has been blown out of all context by some.

I will end by say i usually find your posts to be uplifting and generally agree with most of them, however on this occasion mate you have got the wrong end of the stick if you really believe my earlier post was a attack on you or your opinions.
 
parklane1 said:
Steff mate i have no problem with opinion ( lets face it everyone has one) so let me try and answer your points.

( 1) I did not say that (if you think these Poch years have been like the previous 7) what i said was (we have proved over the last decade that we are a team who is as good ( if not better) then most teams and we have a squad that shows this.) My meaning in saying that ( which you have obviously misread) was that over that period of time we have had mostly a year on year improvement and now find ourselves in a posistion where we can/should be looking at winning things.

(2) Where the hell do you get that impression that i am saying you are one of those who are always throwing the word S pursy around ( as far as i am aware i do not recall you ever saying that) , but you know as well as i do they are those who can not wait to say/use it after we have not got the result we want. As i have said i hate the word and it beggers belief that those who do use it are usually bitching about other clubs fans when they throw it in our faces.

(3) You are right about your last comment though, i disagree with your opinion about Rose and think that it has been blown out of all context by some.

I will end by say i usually find your posts to be uplifting and generally agree with most of them, however on this occasion mate you have got the wrong end of the stick if you really believe my earlier post was a attack on you or your opinions.
Click to expand...

Fair enough and apologies for misinterpreting.
 
balesleftboot said:
Winning Cups over finishing 4th all day long for me. Said it a few times but i'd rather the Champions League was only for Champions. Change the Europa League back to the UEFA Cup, same format, and on a different week to the Champions League. Keep the award of a CL place for winning the UEFA and you would find the prestige of winning cups right back in the game.

Basically I want us to win every competition that we enter, and it's frustrating when you get fans of our club almost wanting us to lose certain games. We seem to be laughed at by other clubs for 'bottling' games when it matters, winning the FA Cup this year as well as finishing second may well have changed that. It's about creating a winning mentality. What was the first Cup that Fergie won at United?
Click to expand...

As a purist I totally agree. Unfortunately though, in this commercial age, this is nothing more than a fantasy. It'll never, ever happen.
 
parklane1 said:
Billy mate i do not really disagree with any of that, however we HAVE to win something ( and soon) because finishing in the top four every season but never winning anything will not keep players ( most of them anyway) here.
Click to expand...
Look at Bale. He left and has won 3 Champions Leagues in 4 years and a league and something else I think. Unfortunately to win things people will see that they have to leave Spurs, unless we win things! So I do agree with you.
 
GinolaGinolaGinola said:
Look at Bale. He left and has won 3 Champions Leagues in 4 years and a league and something else I think. Unfortunately to win things people will see that they have to leave Spurs, unless we win things! So I do agree with you.
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone is saying players won't move to challenge for and to win the CL or league titles.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't think anyone is saying players won't move to challenge for and to win the CL or league titles.
Click to expand...

So basically, logic dictates that any of our players 'might' move if we don't win the league or champions league.

To me that sounds about right, as i don't think many (if any) would stay because we've won the fa cup, league cup, EL.

Just as they wouldn't join anyone in the hope of winning the fa cup, league cup, EL.

The level (they think) they are at now it's only gonna be League and CL as the biggies.
 
GinolaGinolaGinola said:
Then what are they saying? Sorry I just saw a few messages and may have missed a whole load of the points/arguments!
Click to expand...

A few old timers can't comprehend that challenging for the league is more likely to keep our players here than winning the FA or league cup ;)
 
billyiddo said:
A few old timers can't comprehend that challenging for the league is more likely to keep our players here than winning the FA or league cup ;)
Click to expand...

A few of the young kids have wool for brains if they think just challenging for the title but never winning ( like the Arse) will keep players here, look how many have left them over the last few years ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back