Mousa Dembele

[milo]

Dembele seems to be one of those players that has to be mom each game otherwise people question his place at the club. As soon as he drops below an 8 out of 10 performance you see posts questioning him, not just in the side, but at the club. I can't understand why really, seems like a perfect squad player (at worst) to me.

I disagree with this. I would question his place at the club regardless of his latest performance because I do not think that he is a good fit for our playing style.

That does not mean that I dislike him. I think that he is a very good player. I also agree that he was excellent alongside Sandro under AVB but I think that he is a lot better suited to AVB's style of Football that Poch's.

Anyway, all the time he is with us I hope that he puts in regular MoM performances and proves me wrong.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I do get your position Milo. It makes sense. A couple things however. 1. we need some more experienced players to complement the young guns. 28 is not old in most teams. Fergies teams had an average age around that mark. 2. He's a bit like a new player for us this season - in that he needs to settle into a new role and new responsibility. If he can do that well, as he has been, then regardless of his passing (because that's the only real beef you have with him) he warrants a place in the team.

Yes he is too safe at times, but then we never lose possession with him. He can complement Eriksen, creating space with his strength. What we need to see is him trying to power through a hole - Alli tried a couple of times and it didn't come off. Dembele should do the same, half of the time the ball my ricochet away but at least it will commit defenders and leave space for Eriksen or Kane. Then now and again he'll power through on goal, and we saw yesterday that he can slot the ball home with aplomb.

Comparing Dembele to some of the other options in the squad, he's a more complete player who can contribute now. And is doing so. He needs a new contract, and to keep pushing the envelope. He has a high ceiling despite his age (which isn't really old at all).

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I disagree with this. I would question his place at the club regardless of his latest performance because I do not think that he is a good fit for our playing style.

That does not mean that I dislike him. I think that he is a very good player. I also agree that he was excellent alongside Sandro under AVB but I think that he is a lot better suited to AVB's style of Football that Poch's.

Anyway, all the time he is with us I hope that he puts in regular MoM performances and proves me wrong.

Horses for courses in my book, I think it's good to have a few players in the squad that offer a different style to what we have in order to change things if needed, otherwise we become predictable.

You must be happy with his performances since Jan 2015 then? Think he's had something like two poor games in that period (injured for large parts admittedly)?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Horses for courses in my book, I think it's good to have a few players in the squad that offer a different style to what we have in order to change things if needed, otherwise we become predictable.

You must be happy with his performances since Jan 2015 then? Think he's had something like two poor games in that period (injured for large parts admittedly)?

Bingo. We need variety and capability, and we also need players who turn up in big games. He does all of that.

I agree he maybe isn't the perfect fit for Pochs perceived view of the system but he is playing him and he is performing and we're getting results. Can we really ask for more????

I'd get it if we were playing bad, but as I've said elsewhere we have been the best side in every league game this season bar possibly Sunderland, and we just haven't been clinical enough. Yesterday we looked ruthless and also full of energy after what was our worst performance of the season midweek so massive positives for me and Demebele was a big part of that performance yesterday

Still can't work out how he got injured though

 

[Bullet]

Still can't work out how he got injured though

A minute earlier, Glenn Murray was chasing someone (Alli I think) with Dembele hot on his heels. Dembele trod on Murray's heel which made Murray clatter into Alli. This was given as a freekick to Spurs because referees are furking stupid.

Eriksen took the freekick short to Rose, who turned and shot. The ball fell to Dembele's feet and Glenn Murray kicked Dembele in the shins, probably because he was still annoyed about the above. Some players would have tumbled but Dembele is made of iron so he stepped forward, slotted the goal, and then realised he had been booted.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A minute earlier, Glenn Murray was chasing someone (Alli I think) with Dembele hot on his heels. Dembele trod on Murray's heel which made Murray clatter into Alli. This was given as a freekick to Spurs because referees are furking stupid.

Eriksen took the freekick short to Rose, who turned and shot. The ball fell to Dembele's feet and Glenn Murray kicked Dembele in the shins, probably because he was still annoyed about the above. Some players would have tumbled but Dembele is made of iron so he stepped forward, slotted the goal, and then realised he had been booted.

Yeah I watched the game and saw that and thought at the time how did we get the free kick...

I actually think he got injured in the celebration

 

[Robspur12]

Great debate all. I disagree that he doesn't fit into Poch's system with the number of games he has played. Agree we need to have variety not just tippy tappy footballers. I have been looking at the midfielders who he has outlasted it's quite a list
Sandro
Siggurdsonn
Crappoue
Paulinho
Holby

 

[Gutter Boy]

Great debate all. I disagree that he doesn't fit into Poch's system with the number of games he has played. Agree we need to have variety not just tippy tappy footballers. I have been looking at the midfielders who he has outlasted it's quite a list
Sandro
Siggurdsonn
Crappoue
Paulinho
Holby

Yet he's been overtaken by Mason, Bentaleb, Alli and Dier, who cost a combined £9m.

Don't get me wrong though, that's a good thing/how it should be

 

[Pirate55]

[QUOTE="SpurMeUp, post: 750595, member: 886]. He can complement Eriksen, creating space with his strength. What we need to see is him trying to power through a hole - Alli tried a couple of times and it didn't come off. Dembele should do the same, half of the time the ball my ricochet away but at least it will commit defenders and leave space for Eriksen or Kane.

For me, that is a key point made by SMU and is often overlooked. Eriksen plays some of his best football when Dembele is in the team, precisely because Mousa draws players away and allows him space to perform.

 

[Robspur12]

Yet he's been overtaken by Mason, Bentaleb, Alli and Dier, who cost a combined £9m.

Don't get me wrong though, that's a good thing/how it should be

I don't think he has been overtaken. They all get games.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think he has been overtaken. They all get games.

He hasn't but He isn't a cert starter and that's what we want as its competition for places and when you look at our competitors there really aren't many with this level of competition across such a vital area

 

[billyiddo]

He hasn't but He isn't a cert starter and that's what we want as its competition for places and when you look at our competitors there really aren't many with this level of competition across such a vital area

Such a big change from less than 3 years ago, or even 2 when you think about it - huge credit to those involved for the turnaround, asides from a good alternative to Kane the squad is looking in great shape

 

[thfcsteff]

Such a big change from less than 3 years ago, or even 2 when you think about it - huge credit to those involved for the turnaround, asides from a good alternative to Kane the squad is looking in great shape

Absolutely! Closer than ever to a squad that is sticking and carries conviction!

 

[milo]

Great debate all. I disagree that he doesn't fit into Poch's system with the number of games he has played. Agree we need to have variety not just tippy tappy footballers. I have been looking at the midfielders who he has outlasted it's quite a list
Sandro
Siggurdsonn
Crappoue
Paulinho
Holby

The argument about whether he fits Poch's style of play is when playing him at the base of midfield and he has not played many games there.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

The argument about whether he fits Poch's style of play is when playing him at the base of midfield and he has not played many games there.

Well I think he has showed in the one recent game that he can play well in that role and yes, it is just the one. Poch has played him there in the past as well, but with differing levels of success.

I think Poch rates his versatility and his ability to retain the ball above all else. That is useful in a number of situations but not perhaps necessary for some either. To that end, he can be deployed in a number of different positions that is in accordance with the style of play that Poch wants. Recent performances are showing that actually Dembele is playing at a quite high level and certainly good enough for us, so it's an upward trajectory.

I think Poch has shown that he is happy to be ruthless about players that do not buy into his style of play (Ade, Paulinho, Capoue, Holtby) so I do think Dembele still being here speaks volumes about Poch's view on the player. What will be interesting is when we have a fully fit squad, who he plays. I would be willing to put my neck out and say that he would play Dembele over some of our other options. I think the only "cast-iron starters" in our squad are Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Kane (perhaps Walker). Everyone else will be dependent on form, physical condition and the opposition.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

He is the only player that when the ball is played into him facing his own goal, im not worried he will lose possession in a silly area.
Purely because of his strength, but there is something to be said for that, especially when he is the player picking the ball off the defence.

The issue is that when he is facing towards the opposition

 

[Gutter Boy]

The argument about whether he fits Poch's style of play is when playing him at the base of midfield and he has not played many games there.

Do you not think our AMs need to transition the ball quickly as well?

Dembele is a great hold-up player. He actually reminds me a bit of Alan Smith (the Arsenal one). But we dominate possession in 90-95% of games, which means his specialism is very rarely required (if we are defending a scoreline against one of the other top 6)

 

[Robspur12]

Do you not think our AMs need to transition the ball quickly as well?

Dembele is a great hold-up player. He actually reminds me a bit of Alan Smith (the Ar5ena1 one). But we dominate possession in 90-95% of games, which means his specialism is very rarely required (if we are defending a scoreline against one of the other top 6)

Poch seems pretty comfortable playing him. He can transition the ball quickly too, ( although I accept it is not his strength). I urge you to watch the Arsenal game in February again. Sometimes slowing the game down and keeping the ball is exactly what we need say when we are under sustained pressure. I dread to think how we would play if you were the manager GB. Btw how are Townsend's transitions?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Well I think he has showed in the one recent game that he can play well in that role and yes, it is just the one. Poch has played him there in the past as well, but with differing levels of success.

I think Poch rates his versatility and his ability to retain the ball above all else. That is useful in a number of situations but not perhaps necessary for some either. To that end, he can be deployed in a number of different positions that is in accordance with the style of play that Poch wants. Recent performances are showing that actually Dembele is playing at a quite high level and certainly good enough for us, so it's an upward trajectory.

I think Poch has shown that he is happy to be ruthless about players that do not buy into his style of play (Ade, Paulinho, Capoue, Holtby) so I do think Dembele still being here speaks volumes about Poch's view on the player. What will be interesting is when we have a fully fit squad, who he plays. I would be willing to put my neck out and say that he would play Dembele over some of our other options. I think the only "cast-iron starters" in our squad are Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Kane (perhaps Walker). Everyone else will be dependent on form, physical condition and the opposition.

That's another thing I like about Poch , he is pretty pragmatic when it comes to selections. He sees no price tags, reputations etc, and anyone with egos that can't be checked are sent on their way.

Players will buy-in as long as Poch demonstrates consistency,fairness and inclusiveness to the whole group. (something mourinho is failing miserably at at the mo).

As long as his ideas on the pitch look to be working, the group start to bond and it all starts to move in the right direction. Loving (or even just respecting) the manager is massive, especially when you're still a second tier club.

Ps. It's so good not to have Ade around.

 

[milo]

Do you not think our AMs need to transition the ball quickly as well?

Dembele is a great hold-up player. He actually reminds me a bit of Alan Smith (the Ar5ena1 one). But we dominate possession in 90-95% of games, which means his specialism is very rarely required (if we are defending a scoreline against one of the other top 6)

I don't think that he is a perfect fit but he is not an impediment to our play which I think he can be when played deeper.

Played further forwards he is certainly a good option if we need to hold the ball up the pitch and is another option if we need to get through a tight defence.