Mousa Dembele

[Gazza Dazzla]

The pressure had clearly increased to me, the anxiety in the crowd was raised as well, so I don't think I was the only one to feel it. From completely dominating possession and territory we'd started giving away the ball and allowed villa to attack us for the first time in the game.

We deserved to win, no doubt, but there was 20 mins in the second half where we were second best.

 

[Pandy]

The pressure had clearly increased to me, the anxiety in the crowd was raised as well, so I don't think I was the only one to feel it. From completely dominating possession and territory we'd started giving away the ball and allowed villa to attack us for the first time in the game.

We deserved to win, no doubt, but there was 20 mins in the second half where we were second best.

In how many PL games have you ever seen one team dominate for the entire 90 minutes?

That is such a shoddy criticism.

Credit should go to the boys for not capitulating, but rather, sitting a little deeper, soaking up some pressure, and destroying an over-committed Villa on the counter with an elegant, composed passage of play.

 

[Pandy]

Lost control because of the goal. Just like we've lost control in the past with Dembele on the pitch. And like we've kept control with and without him on the pitch in the past.

From what I remember Villa created one chance, the well placed long range effort that either hit the post or perhaps Lloris just got a touch. The rest of what they created was our making from errors from Dier, Mason and Lloris.

We also wrestled control back for the last 5-10 minutes after losing it. That's not something we've always managed in the past.



Extremely strong. And he does it against other strong players...

It continues to mystify me why he can't do stuff like that more frequently...

Poch has talked about "finding a role/position" for Dembele this season (can't remember the direct quote). If we could we would have an immense player on our hands. I'm just not holding my breath for it.

Basically this.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The pressure had clearly increased to me, the anxiety in the crowd was raised as well, so I don't think I was the only one to feel it. From completely dominating possession and territory we'd started giving away the ball and allowed villa to attack us for the first time in the game.

We deserved to win, no doubt, but there was 20 mins in the second half where we were second best.

Always happens, unless you get your 3rd early enough to kill the game

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

In how many PL games have you ever seen one team dominate for the entire 90 minutes?

That is such a shoddy criticism.

Credit should go to the boys for not capitulating, but rather, sitting a little deeper, soaking up some pressure, and destroying an over-committed Villa on the counter with an elegant, composed passage of play.

Not expecting us to dominate for 90 minutes, just understanding why we didn't!

 

[Pandy]

Always happens, unless you get your 3rd early enough to kill the game

I really think that is the next development in this team. Last year we were scraping wins in unconvincing performances, this year we look much more resolute and even when we don't play out of our skins, we still look the better team and often win comfortably.

To really kick on and be a force at the top of the league, we need to start burying games nice and early.

Obviously there will always be games in which the best teams struggle and have to grind out a win, but its closing off the good games quickly that really defines a top side. It ramps up the goal difference, allows squad players a bit more of a chance to impress, and ultimately gives everyone a bit more of a rest.

 

[P.D.]

I imagine we need to tie him down to a new contract or he will have one year left after this season, wonder if he will sign. Not seen any of the big boys linked with him.

Same with Lamela as well.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

With 15 mins or so to go, and Villa having barely threatened (for all their efforts in 2nd half). i'd say it was fair of Poch to think we had the game in the bag safely enough to rest Moussa and give Mason a needed run out. Moussa had done a lot of work and often tires towards the end of a match from what i have seen. Understandably so.

I'm not saying we were overconfident, but for all Villa's huff and puff it took us taking foot off slightly with two big games coming up for them to make a nervy 10 mins of it.

On that note, Hugo was a very lucky boy with that cross!! It could've easily been Stoke all over again. They pressed us well and we dallied too much playing out from the back. Do that Sunday and we'll get murdered!!

 

[Bullet]

I'd say that Villa would be hoping to enter the last 20 minutes with only a couple of goals to claw back... then they can really go for it. It is a rubbish gameplan, but it's about all they can do at present.

They had the shot that went in and another that whistled over, also the one that hit the post and the header at an open goal when Lloris went walkies... they could easily have got a draw and we'd be livid.

They did have a go at us and we did look shakier than usual for a spell, just hoofing it clear and panicking.

 

[braineclipse]

Sorry but the goal was conceded because we lost control, not vice versa, they hit the post a few minutes before! The goal was coming.

If moussa gets ripped apart for the times he's not the best player on the pitch then he should be equally praised for when his impact is as clear on a team/display as it was yesterday.

Will have to watch those 10 minutes again, but not how I remember it. Or how I see it looking at stats and the match report.

In those 10 minutes they did have two chances other than the goal. The shot right before and the chance after Dier gave it away to Gestede. But we also had chances with the Eriksen free kick and shot from Lamela. Their goal and the Gestede chance were both created by us making individual mistakes, not because we lost control. We had been playing it out from the back most of the night and the errors from Dier and Mason were just that, individual errors.

Dembele was good, but we've seen him play football enough to know that he's not some magical talisman that keeps others from making individual mistakes. Nor is he immune to making mistakes himself. Nor does he somehow keep us from conceding goals when ahead or losing the initiative in games. Remember how we lost a 2-0 lead against Stoke? Dembele played 90 minutes that game! Remember how we lost the initiative and lead against Anderlecht with Dembele on the pitch?

Just because we lost control (a while) after Dembele went off doesn't mean that we lost control because he went off. That's basic logic.

Goal gave them a boost, they started pressing even more and we got a bit nervous. That's when we started losing control. Then, without Moussa, we managed to win back control. And despite them having one of the best and strongest headers of the ball in the league we weren't pinned in or pushed back in the final minutes. Surely the players on the pitch deserve praise for that, when their impact is as clear as that?

Moussa's main impact on the game yesterday was the extremely well taken goal. Bad defending from Villa, but absolutely brilliant from Dembele. He definitely deserves a lot of praise for that. If he can somehow be motivated or coaches into contributing more in the final third with goals and assists he'll deserve even more praise. I did like that after the goal he took on a shot from range yesterday, so perhaps he really is trying and a bit of goalscoring confidence surely won't hurt him. Nice little drop of the shoulder, create some space and blast it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I imagine we need to tie him down to a new contract or he will have one year left after this season, wonder if he will sign. Not seen any of the big boys linked with him.

Same with Lamela as well.

Lamela's contract is to 2018

The shortest ones are:

2016
Carroll
Oduwa (possibly, may have been extended and not reported)
Veljkovic (possibly, although was listed in June 2015 as 'extended')

2017
Dembele
Townsend

2018
Verts
Lamela
Eriksen
Chadli
Fazio
Vorm

 

[Rorschach]

For those 10-15mins Villa were on top I saw a lot of panic in possession from the Spurs boys. When the Villa goal went in it was because we were turning possession over to them repeatedly. We basically lost all composure and went long with it over and over.
One of Dembele's main attributes is that the ball sticks to him. Unadventurous recycling of possession was needed at that point and that is his forte. Lamela superbly regained some semblance of control for the last 10mins or so but we did miss Dembele's composure on the ball for that spell IMO.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Will have to watch those 10 minutes again, but not how I remember it. Or how I see it looking at stats and the match report.

In those 10 minutes they did have two chances other than the goal. The shot right before and the chance after Dier gave it away to Gestede. But we also had chances with the Eriksen free kick and shot from Lamela. Their goal and the Gestede chance were both created by us making individual mistakes, not because we lost control. We had been playing it out from the back most of the night and the errors from Dier and Mason were just that, individual errors.

Dembele was good, but we've seen him play football enough to know that he's not some magical talisman that keeps others from making individual mistakes. Nor is he immune to making mistakes himself. Nor does he somehow keep us from conceding goals when ahead or losing the initiative in games. Remember how we lost a 2-0 lead against Stoke? Dembele played 90 minutes that game! Remember how we lost the initiative and lead against Anderlecht with Dembele on the pitch?

Just because we lost control (a while) after Dembele went off doesn't mean that we lost control because he went off. That's basic logic.

Goal gave them a boost, they started pressing even more and we got a bit nervous. That's when we started losing control. Then, without Moussa, we managed to win back control. And despite them having one of the best and strongest headers of the ball in the league we weren't pinned in or pushed back in the final minutes. Surely the players on the pitch deserve praise for that, when their impact is as clear as that?

Moussa's main impact on the game yesterday was the extremely well taken goal. Bad defending from Villa, but absolutely brilliant from Dembele. He definitely deserves a lot of praise for that. If he can somehow be motivated or coaches into contributing more in the final third with goals and assists he'll deserve even more praise. I did like that after the goal he took on a shot from range yesterday, so perhaps he really is trying and a bit of goalscoring confidence surely won't hurt him. Nice little drop of the shoulder, create some space and blast it.

theres soo many variables in different games it's totally naive to say "well Dembele played in the stoke and anderlecht game where we threw a lead away therefore control of the game is nothing to do with him last night" ! come on!

I was discussing with friends during the game how we were losing it and letting them back in. That was after moussa went off. They barely had any possession or territory before then, we were very relaxed about the match although not overly impressed with the performance, just a professional performance to that point you could say - absolutely nothing wrong with that though.

I just don't see the problem admitting that maybe Dembele helps us keep the ball and control?!

Tbh I don't even disagree that he was substituted as we have two big games coming up this week and he needs protecting, but it was clear as day to me that the reason villa came back in to it was that substitution. I'm a bit shocked it's even being argued.

I've noticed a few comments on this thread saying we should be happy with the players for closing out the game etc. I am, of course I am, never said anything different, I'm fine with a performance like that, even though it doesn't blow me away. The only thing I've said is that Dembele helps us keep possession and control a game, yesterday proved it. I think my actual line was "when will people realise what moussa gives us". Well I guess the answer is not yet!

 

[Gutter Boy]

For those 10-15mins Villa were on top I saw a lot of panic in possession from the Spurs boys. When the Villa goal went in it was because we were turning possession over to them repeatedly. We basically lost all composure and went long with it over and over.
One of Dembele's main attributes is that the ball sticks to him. Unadventurous recycling of possession was needed at that point and that is his forte. Lamela superbly regained some semblance of control for the last 10mins or so but we did miss Dembele's composure on the ball for that spell IMO.

For me Dembele is brilliant to bring on at the end to protect a lead. He'll suck the life out of any game.

His issue is more in the first 70 minutes when we need more fluidity and penetration. Would we have been 4 up by 70 minutes if Son had played instead for example?

 

[Rorschach]

For me Dembele is brilliant to bring on at the end to protect a lead. He'll suck the life out of any game.

His issue is more in the first 70 minutes when we need more fluidity and penetration. Would we have been 4 up by 70 minutes if Son had played instead for example?

Mate he was one of the best players on the pitch before he came off and all you can do is try and run down his performance with a hypothetical situation that obviously you can't prove nor anyone disprove. I find it hard to take your opinion on Dembele seriously as you just use every opportunity you can to slate his performances even when he is generally regarded as MOTM by most posters. At least save your criticism until he deserves it.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Dembele will have some poor games, of course he will, every player does. The trouble is he's in good form currently and he's still getting slated by some and back handed compliments by others each game he plays.

Think he's on a losing battle with some fans here unfortunately - which is fine, would be boring if we all have the same opinion, but I'm gonna keep on defending him if I think he deserves defending!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For me Dembele is brilliant to bring on at the end to protect a lead. He'll suck the life out of any game.

His issue is more in the first 70 minutes when we need more fluidity and penetration. Would we have been 4 up by 70 minutes if Son had played instead for example?

Possibly we will never know

Could we have been 4 up if kane hadn't got the ball stuck under his feet as he has a lot this season

Could we have been 4 up if lamella had a shot rather than pass a few times

Its all if, buts and maybe but Dembele did nothing wring yesterday and a hell of a lot right.

 

[Moby]

if this thread gets to 100 pages.... he'll start to become consistent!!!

 

[braineclipse]

theres soo many variables in different games it's totally naive to say "well Dembele played in the stoke and anderlecht game where we threw a lead away therefore control of the game is nothing to do with him last night" ! come on!

I was discussing with friends during the game how we were losing it and letting them back in. That was after moussa went off. They barely had any possession or territory before then, we were very relaxed about the match although not overly impressed with the performance, just a professional performance to that point you could say - absolutely nothing wrong with that though.

I just don't see the problem admitting that maybe Dembele helps us keep the ball and control?!

Tbh I don't even disagree that he was substituted as we have two big games coming up this week and he needs protecting, but it was clear as day to me that the reason villa came back in to it was that substitution. I'm a bit shocked it's even being argued.

I've noticed a few comments on this thread saying we should be happy with the players for closing out the game etc. I am, of course I am, never said anything different, I'm fine with a performance like that, even though it doesn't blow me away. The only thing I've said is that Dembele helps us keep possession and control a game, yesterday proved it. I think my actual line was "when will people realise what moussa gives us". Well I guess the answer is not yet!

So it's naive to point out that we've lost control and the lead in games with him on the pitch. Because there are so many variable. But pointing the finger to him coming off and Mason coming on as the reason why we lost control yesterday is totally fine? No other variables? No reason to point out how we actually gave away chances through individual mistakes? Nope... The reason was... Dembele?

If it's really true that Dembele helps us hold control and the lead in a game we should see that in more than just one game. One games doesn't "prove it", for something like that to be true there should be an overall trend over many games. Now I'm not going to actually look through all our games and come up with numbers, but the examples going both ways I've presented are at least as much proof as the one game where he went off and we (some time later) lost control.

Dembele helps us hold possession in a close duel. Part of keeping the ball in a team under pressure is quick pass and move football to keep stretching the opponents and not let them close us down or force us into a clearance. Other players, like Mason, are rather good at that. Strengths and weaknesses and more than just the one factor...

Edit: Watched back 10-ish minutes before and after the sub. Wrote in the match thread instead as the discussion was going there as well and it seemed more relevant. But cliff notes I really struggle to see what exactly Dembele would have done to keep us more in control up until the goal.

if this thread gets to 100 pages.... he'll start to become consistent!!!

I'll do my part

 

[parklane1]

He has done well in the last couple of games without a doubt, however now is the crunch time to see if he can keep it up. So many times in the past he has done well for a period and then nothing for a few games, now IF he can keep performing to the level he has over the last couple of games we will have a player but only time will tell.