Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DubaiSpur]

We've seen the same with just about every other manager at the club that I can remember. Some days it just doesn't work for whatever reason. This is not new. This is also not something that only happens to us.

In hindsight this was likely to happen sooner or later. Poch would have to be a miracle worker to not have this happen to him sooner or later.

I've long thought there's something off about the mentality at the club, this kind of showing is a symptom of that I think. Not a symptom of something wrong with our new manager. Point being that this isn't something that all of a sudden started under him.

Even if this was true, and I'm not sure it is, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I would rather see us change out every player that doesn't have the right mentality than placate them for a slight short term boost.

We're looking to compete with several teams with significantly bigger budgets. I think a great way of doing this is the Simeone at Atletico or Klopp at Dortmund route. Seems to me that Poch is trying to do something similar. I'm willing to wait and would rather see him drop a handful of players that have been at the club for a long time and use his own signings or youngsters until we have a group of players actually willing to do the job.

I would fear placating the not so dedicated players a lot more, because I think that's at least as destined to fail sooner or later. Because sooner or later that lack of dedication would cost us.

If you think Poch will actually get the players he asks for, the ones he thinks can change the mentality at this club....I've got an unpleasant surprise for you, braine. Same for the people who think we'll do any business in January: we won't, because the prices are inflated, and that jars against everything this club stands for, i.e The Game is About Negative Net Spend.

No, he'll have to make do with cheap second-choices and bargain buys. Unless we sell one of the few really good players at this club, though: then he can laugh while Levy and Baldini ignore a good half of his targets in favour of signing players with sell-on value that won't fit into Poch's system. And then, like sheep, we'll all turn on Poch when he fails to get this half-hearted, unmotivated team performing adequately, and Levy can breathe a sigh of relief when he sacks him and turns to securing the next chump willing to work with a negative net spend and a chairman who demands success without providing the tools to achieve it. There are already people questioning Poch, five games into the season, after a summer where we nearly all unilaterally promised to give the manager time, and after a summer where our transfer activity was below-par at best, and disastrous at worst.

The mentality of this club will not change, because we're arrogantly (and impatiently) expecting Poch to literally work miracles unheard of in the football world while happily clapping on the chairman as he coldly demands that his managers play the players Levy wants to see picked and perform with the players Levy decreed as either cheap or possessing 'adequate sell-on value' instead of being the ones that the manager really needs. No wonder Rodgers ****ged us off as a club he'd never want to manage at.

 

[Jordinho]

If Poch or anyone else is unable to do well unless they get the exact 11 players they want then they're not really much of a manager.

Giving him a free reign with transfers is a certain road to failure long term.

 

[billyiddo]

If Poch or anyone else is unable to do well unless they get the exact 11 players they want then they're not really much of a manager.

Giving him a free reign with transfers is a certain road to failure long term.

how much say did he have in transfers at Southampton?


i have no idea on the credibility of the bloke below but i saw it earlier today so worth a reposting here i guess :

 

[DubaiSpur]

If Poch or anyone else is unable to do well unless they get the exact 11 players they want then they're not really much of a manager.

Giving him a free reign with transfers is a certain road to failure long term.

Eh. Sack him, move on to the next chump stupid enough or gullible enough to fall for Levy's pledges. Then sack him, and move on to the next bloke. It's coming. The febrile crowd are already turning on Poch, the sniffy 'he's not really a good manager' digs are already popping up here, on social media and on the TFC forum....there's enough ammunition for a Levy dismissal accumulating already. Given our history, it's unpleasant to witness, because what then follows seems inevitable.

I'm just surprised that people get offended when rags like the Daily Mail pull out the 'most political, tense club in the Premier League' comments, and when managers like Rodgers sniff that they wouldn't ever manage Spurs given our situation. It's all true, stop being offended. We don't trust the manager here. We think giving him power is a road to failure, and that he's not a very good manager if he can't get his collecting of 'value' 5 million pound players playing like 25 million pound ones, and that being told who to play by our esteemed chairman is a perfectly reasonable thing for the manager to expect from time to time. We don't trust his vision for the club, and we don't trust his ability to deliver given time, which is why we almost never give them any.

All true, and yet we bristle. Baffling.

 

[braineclipse]

If you think Poch will actually get the players he asks for, the ones he thinks can change the mentality at this club....I've got an unpleasant surprise for you, braine. Same for the people who think we'll do any business in January: we won't, because the prices are inflated, and that jars against everything this club stands for, i.e The Game is About Negative Net Spend.

No, he'll have to make do with cheap second-choices and bargain buys. Unless we sell one of the few really good players at this club, though: then he can laugh while Levy and Baldini ignore a good half of his targets in favour of signing players with sell-on value that won't fit into Poch's system. And then, like sheep, we'll all turn on Poch when he fails to get this half-hearted, unmotivated team performing adequately, and Levy can breathe a sigh of relief when he sacks him and turns to securing the next chump willing to work with a negative net spend and a chairman who demands success without providing the tools to achieve it. There are already people questioning Poch, five games into the season, after a summer where we nearly all unilaterally promised to give the manager time, and after a summer where our transfer activity was below-par at best, and disastrous at worst.

The mentality of this club will not change, because we're arrogantly (and impatiently) expecting Poch to literally work miracles unheard of in the football world while happily clapping on the chairman as he coldly demands that his managers play the players Levy wants to see picked and perform with the players Levy decreed as either cheap or possessing 'adequate sell-on value' instead of being the ones that the manager really needs. No wonder Rodgers ****ged us off as a club he'd never want to manage at.

Did Simeone get ever player he asked for? Did Klopp? Did they ****... Did Rodgers get every player he wanted? No way! Did Dortmund have a big positive net spend? Did Atletico?

Not getting into another Levy discussion, not in this thread, not while there's so much negativity after the WBA game.

Not sure who "we" are in this setting of yours. I don't think I'm included. I don't think Levy is either to be honest, but that's awfully close to getting into a Levy discussion so I'll leave it at that. I think Poch can do a lot of big things for this club, I think he will need some time and I think there's a reasonable chance he'll be given enough time.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Did Simeone get ever player he asked for? Did Klopp? Did they ****... Did Rodgers get every player he wanted? No way! Did Dortmund have a big positive net spend? Did Atletico?

Not getting into another Levy discussion, not in this thread, not while there's so much negativity after the WBA game.

Not sure who "we" are in this setting of yours. I don't think I'm included. I don't think Levy is either to be honest, but that's awfully close to getting into a Levy discussion so I'll leave it at that. I think Poch can do a lot of big things for this club, I think he will need some time and I think there's a reasonable chance he'll be given enough time.

'We' is the collective. Goes beyond you or me. I'm not judging Poch now, I won't for the rest of the season, and I'm even considering whether or not to judge him next season as well. But I feel the tide is turning against my perspective (Which I imagine is similar to yours), and given our games coming up and the parallels to AVB's time in charge developing, I'm not hopeful.

As for Levy, I'll leave it alone if you don't want to discuss it. Suffice to say, I see a yawning disparity between Klopp, Simeone and Rodgers' situations at their clubs versus Poch's situation at ours, and I feel it won't end well for the man if it continues.

 

[billyiddo]

Rodgers would have crawled here on his hands and knees if we had wanted him, don't let what he says once he's comfortably sat in another job fool you.

 

[Jordinho]

Eh. Sack him, move on to the next chump stupid enough or gullible enough to fall for Levy's pledges. Then sack him, and move on to the next bloke. It's coming. The febrile crowd are already turning on Poch, the sniffy 'he's not really a good manager' digs are already popping up here, on social media and on the TFC forum....there's enough ammunition for a Levy dismissal accumulating already. Given our history, it's unpleasant to witness, because what then follows seems inevitable.

I'm just surprised that people get offended when rags like the Daily Mail pull out the 'most political, tense club in the Premier League' comments, and when managers like Rodgers sniff that they wouldn't ever manage Spurs given our situation. It's all true, stop being offended. We don't trust the manager here. We think giving him power is a road to failure, and that he's not a very good manager if he can't get his collecting of 'value' 5 million pound players playing like 25 million pound ones, and that being told who to play by our esteemed chairman is a perfectly reasonable thing for the manager to expect from time to time. We don't trust his vision for the club, and we don't trust his ability to deliver given time, which is why we almost never give them any.

All true, and yet we bristle. Baffling.

Guess what? That's how it works at every other football club out there. Assurances and promises that aren't worth the breath they're spoken with. In a sporting competition there's not really room for every club to be successful all of the time. It takes quite an alignment of stars to succeed.

Managers get sacked for no good reason all the time. As soon as you hit a slump you're gone. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, not necessarily for the right reasons, but it's much cheaper replacing coaching staff than the playing staff.

Considering it's quite an achievement to get a third consecutive season at any club, you simply can't allow a manager the freedom to buy and sell as he wishes. It's not really the job of a head coach anyway, he's a COACH.

 

[Jordinho]

how much say did he have in transfers at Southampton?


i have no idea on the credibility of the bloke below but i saw it earlier today so worth a reposting here i guess :

That's similar to how I think it should be, once he starts proving that he knows what he's doing and we're heading in the right direction do you give him a bigger say. Get the current squad working as a team, then add the finishing touches/missing ingredients .

 

[Jurgen the German]

Rodgers would have crawled here on his hands and knees if we had wanted him, don't let what he says once he's comfortably sat in another job fool you.

Until Liverpool became interested.

 

[milo]

If you think Poch will actually get the players he asks for, the ones he thinks can change the mentality at this club....I've got an unpleasant surprise for you, braine. Same for the people who think we'll do any business in January: we won't, because the prices are inflated, and that jars against everything this club stands for, i.e The Game is About Negative Net Spend.

No, he'll have to make do with cheap second-choices and bargain buys. Unless we sell one of the few really good players at this club, though: then he can laugh while Levy and Baldini ignore a good half of his targets in favour of signing players with sell-on value that won't fit into Poch's system. And then, like sheep, we'll all turn on Poch when he fails to get this half-hearted, unmotivated team performing adequately, and Levy can breathe a sigh of relief when he sacks him and turns to securing the next chump willing to work with a negative net spend and a chairman who demands success without providing the tools to achieve it. There are already people questioning Poch, five games into the season, after a summer where we nearly all unilaterally promised to give the manager time, and after a summer where our transfer activity was below-par at best, and disastrous at worst.

The mentality of this club will not change, because we're arrogantly (and impatiently) expecting Poch to literally work miracles unheard of in the football world while happily clapping on the chairman as he coldly demands that his managers play the players Levy wants to see picked and perform with the players Levy decreed as either cheap or possessing 'adequate sell-on value' instead of being the ones that the manager really needs. No wonder Rodgers ****ged us off as a club he'd never want to manage at.

Maybe we should see the second choices play a few Premier League games before we jump to conclusions

 

[billyiddo]

Until Liverpool became interested.

we'd still have been his first choice - Rodgers wanted the job

 

[Jurgen the German]

we'd still have been his first choice - Rodgers wanted the job

I don't believe that. Liverpool (in his eyes) were the bigger club and the better option. Plus, he'd have been more confident of keeping his job after one under par season than he would with our trigger happy board.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Maybe we should see the second choices play a few Premier League games before we jump to conclusions

Doesn't change the fact that they were second-choices (probably third choice in Fazio's case). Still, won't press the point given the general doom and gloom here, although given our run of games coming up, this board might be morgue-like come October.

 

[billyiddo]

I don't believe that. Liverpool (in his eyes) were the bigger club and the better option. Plus, he'd have been more confident of keeping his job after one under par season than he would with our trigger happy board.

see i think you're letting what he has said once he got the Liverpool job influence you there (re trigger happy board) - think about it ... end of 11/12 where were it not for a very sloppy second half of the season with, let's say, mitigating circumstances Spurs would have been comfortably 3rd in the league - playing the most attacking entertaining football in the league with some exciting young players and experienced quality. or he could go to Liverpool and follow in the footsteps of Kenny Dalglish and sort out the total shambles of a squad they had there. easy decision really

 

[milo]

Doesn't change the fact that they were second-choices (probably third choice in Fazio's case). Still, won't press the point given the general doom and gloom here, although given our run of games coming up, this board might be morgue-like come October.

There has never been a manager in the history of the game that got all of their first choices. If Fazio and Stambouli perform then no one will care where they featured on Poch's list.

 

[Jurgen the German]

see i think you're letting what he has said once he got the Liverpool job influence you there (re trigger happy board) - think about it ... end of 11/12 where were it not for a very sloppy second half of the season with, let's say, mitigating circumstances Spurs would have been comfortably 3rd in the league - playing the most attacking entertaining football in the league with some exciting young players and experienced quality. or he could go to Liverpool and follow in the footsteps of Kenny Dalglish and sort out the total shambles of a squad they had there. easy decision really

Liverpool are a far more stable club, with far more patient owners and fans than us. I don't think Levy would have tolerated a 7th place finish if Rodgers had managed us.

 

[milo]

see i think you're letting what he has said once he got the Liverpool job influence you there (re trigger happy board) - think about it ... end of 11/12 where were it not for a very sloppy second half of the season with, let's say, mitigating circumstances Spurs would have been comfortably 3rd in the league - playing the most attacking entertaining football in the league with some exciting young players and experienced quality. or he could go to Liverpool and follow in the footsteps of Kenny Dalglish and sort out the total shambles of a squad they had there. easy decision really

Rodgers' is a master at saying any old bull**** to butter up Liverpool fans.

 

[milo]

Liverpool are a far more stable club, with far more patient owners and fans than us. I don't think Levy would have tolerated a 7th place finish if Rodgers had managed us.

They were neither when he joined them.

 

[Jurgen the German]

They were neither when he joined them.

Once again, there is no way Levy would have tolerated a 7th place finish with Rodgers as Spurs manager in his first season. I remember he once made a statement about Chelsea along the lines of "I'm looking to build a career, not destroy it" when asked about becoming their manager. Where are not as bad as them, but we are not far off. He knew he would get more time at Liverpool.