Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Raziel]

i 1000% believe that Fazio would not have solved the issue against Utd Fellani wasnt playing up against Dier but between walker and Dier and 10yrs deeper. If Fazio had gone and challenged him the gap inbehind would have been ridiculous and would have been exploited.

A lot of the balls wouldn't have gotten to Fellaini, as well as Fellaini would not have won brick in the box, including the one for second goal.

Fazio is like Lloris, you have to watch the plays he cuts out, almost more than the duels (in Lloris case, saves) he wins

 

[braineclipse]

i 1000% believe that Fazio would not have solved the issue against Utd Fellani wasnt playing up against Dier but between walker and Dier and 10yrs deeper. If Fazio had gone and challenged him the gap inbehind would have been ridiculous and would have been exploited.

But both Dier and Walker did challenge him, leaving gaps behind and everything.

I think Fazio's experience and organizational skills as well as being stronger in the air could have helped. I also think he might have been out of contention as he wasn't even in the squad.

Dier is clearly very talented and has done alright for us, but he's also showing clear signs of being very young and new to the league. I'm not convinced he should be first choice for us at the moment. Playing in a young team, in a young back 4 doesn't help.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

A lot of the balls wouldn't have gotten to Fellaini, as well as Fellaini would not have won crud in the box, including the one for second goal.

Fazio is like Lloris, you have to watch the plays he cuts out, almost more than the duels (in Lloris case, saves) he wins

I agree that Fazio is as much about positioning and is very effective. However fellani is not Andy Carroll and i think he would have won his fair share in the Air.
I actually think Dier is better in the air than Fazio.

 

[Mumorn]

Dier is no where near as good as Fazio in the air. He tends to give away alot of free kicks whenever he jumps in the air, mainly due to pushing or kneeing in the back. Dier is solid in the air as you'd expect from a centre back, but Fazio is one of the best at it, mainly due to his towering height. I want them both to play at the back with each other though, I actually think this could be a good partnership. Still don't know why Fazio/Vert was broken up through, 3 losses in 24 games is a great record. We've lost 3 of our last 5 with just Vert/Dier.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Dier is no where near as good as Fazio in the air. He tends to give away alot of free kicks whenever he jumps in the air, mainly due to pushing or kneeing in the back. Dier is solid in the air as you'd expect from a centre back, but Fazio is one of the best at it, mainly due to his towering height. I want them both to play at the back with each other though, I actually think this could be a good partnership. Still don't know why Fazio/Vert was broken up through, 3 losses in 24 games is a great record. We've lost 3 of our last 5 with just Vert/Dier.

Im not sure some of the goals Fazio has cost us with direct mistakes has helped his case. I actually think Fazio relies on his height too much in the air and also goes through the back of people..

I could see the benefit of Fazio but as an organiser rather than aerially.

Sitting behind the goal for the Utd game was the best view i have seen for a long time of a manager tactically out-thinking another. I still think it was to do with the inverted wingers not doing enough and thats the part of the team that needs the most work.

 

[Mumorn]

What about mistakes Dier has made? As said in a previous thread, he tends to make them every time he plays. Not "directly" in the way Fazio may have done with misplacing passes but Dier is usually making mistakes with his poor positioning. Man Utd for example, he was dreadful (the whole team were to be fair) - his mistiming of his jumping against West Ham cost us the opening goal too. Something I imagine Fazio wouldnt even have needed to jump for.

Diers excuse could be more due to the fact he is young and inexperienced and he will iron these out as he gets older. But I feel being partnered by Vertonghen doesn't necessarily help who has only really looked good this season alongside Fazio anyway.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think with Dier Poch sees the benefit of him getting the experience in these games and that's I'll include some mistakes

Fazio not being in the squad though was strange and I can only assume their was a niggle

 

[Modric THFC]

I think with Dier Poch sees the benefit of him getting the experience in these games and that's I'll include some mistakes

Fazio not being in the squad though was strange and I can only assume their was a niggle

No benefit from him learning bad habits from Vertonghen.

 

[braineclipse]

What about mistakes Dier has made? As said in a previous thread, he tends to make them every time he plays. Not "directly" in the way Fazio may have done with misplacing passes but Dier is usually making mistakes with his poor positioning. Man Utd for example, he was dreadful (the whole team were to be fair) - his mistiming of his jumping against West Ham cost us the opening goal too. Something I imagine Fazio wouldnt even have needed to jump for.

Diers excuse could be more due to the fact he is young and inexperienced and he will iron these out as he gets older. But I feel being partnered by Vertonghen doesn't necessarily help who has only really looked good this season alongside Fazio anyway.

I think some of Dier's mistakes get overlooked on here because he's young and not really expected to be first choice yet. Was signed relatively cheaply as a squad player. Fazio on the other hand was signed for a bit more and at an age where he should be coming in as a first choice I suppose. Definitely some reasons to excuse Dier's mistakes as you say, but right now I'm not convinced he's the better option for us.

I think with Dier Poch sees the benefit of him getting the experience in these games and that's I'll include some mistakes

Fazio not being in the squad though was strange and I can only assume their was a niggle

Agreed. Poch obviously values potential and developing players for the future. Good reason to play Dier over Fazio up to a point I think. For me at least I think it might be a decent idea to give Dier a rest right now.

 

[braineclipse]

I agree that Fazio is as much about positioning and is very effective. However fellani is not Andy Carroll and i think he would have won his fair share in the Air.
I actually think Dier is better in the air than Fazio.

Overall I think that's just flat out wrong.

Where Dier might be better than Fazio is for attacking set pieces. Seems to be quicker and have better movement to get away from defenders and thus get headers under less pressure and thus be more of a threat.

For a defensive headed duel though... No doubt that Fazio is stronger in the air for me (and just about everyone else). In fact I really struggle to think what Dier or Fazio might have done to convince people that's not the case.

 

[parklane1]

A lot of the balls wouldn't have gotten to Fellaini, as well as Fellaini would not have won crud in the box, including the one for second goal.

Fazio is like Lloris, you have to watch the plays he cuts out, almost more than the duels (in Lloris case, saves) he wins

I agree Fazio would not have let Fellaini run of him for the first and he definately would not have given him a free header for the lead up to the second, as for Dier being better in the air then Fazio well I have not seen that yet and doubt I ever will.

 

[thfcsteff]

I agree Fazio would not have let Fellaini run of him for the first and he definately would not have given him a free header for the lead up to the second, as for Dier being better in the air then Fazio well I have not seen that yet and doubt I ever will.

Agreed, though I will say as that move happened, it looked like a complete breakdown of communication and concentration along the line as I don't think I have seen Dier caught that high and 'flat' before.

 

[Raziel]

Agreed, though I will say as that move happened, it looked like a complete breakdown of communication and concentration along the line as I don't think I have seen Dier caught that high and 'flat' before.

I thought originally Poch played players based on tactic/opposition, specifically to Dier/Fazio

- Dier where we are concerned about the pace of opponents
- Fazio where we want more Arial capability

However it seems he's settled into trying to pick same 11 regardless, which I'm not sure I agree with

Dier to me has a lot of promise, but shouldn't be first choice in every game

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Dont know how many commenting on the problems were at the game, but everyone who was around me agreed on the issue and it was blindingly obvious.

What we dont know is what Poch had said, was Dier to stay central and let walker attack fellani, were we to challenge for the 2nd ball etc etc

Its impossible to know who to blame for the goals (bar bentaleb) as we dont know what players were told. What did happen is that due to inexperience we didnt sort out the issues quick enough. The one fact is that townsend was removed after 30mins, which would show that previous comments ive made regarding Young Fellani etc may be the closest to what the plan was.

 

[parklane1]

Dont know how many commenting on the problems were at the game, but everyone who was around me agreed on the issue and it was blindingly obvious.

What we dont know is what Poch had said, was Dier to stay central and let walker attack fellani, were we to challenge for the 2nd ball etc etc

Its impossible to know who to blame for the goals (bar bentaleb) as we dont know what players were told. What did happen is that due to inexperience we didnt sort out the issues quick enough. The one fact is that townsend was removed after 30mins, which would show that previous comments ive made regarding Young Fellani etc may be the closest to what the plan was.

Well I was at the game and it was obvious to me and the lads I sit with that Dier was at fault for the first and second, now there may be a grey area about the first ( but I think not) but the second was down to Dier giving Fellani a free header in the box.

Everyman and his dog know that Utd have played the long ball for Fellani a lot this season and that is why Fazio should have been the one to mark him, playing Dier who is not experainced enough to handle a moster like Felliani was a mistake.

As for Townsend there is not much to say about him, over 80 games for us and the same faults in his game.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Well I was at the game and it was obvious to me and the lads I sit with that Dier was at fault for the first and second, now there may be a grey area about the first ( but I think not) but the second was down to Dier giving Fellani a free header in the box.

Everyman and his dog know that Utd have played the long ball for Fellani a lot this season and that is why Fazio should have been the one to mark him, playing Dier who is not experainced enough to handle a moster like Felliani was a mistake.

As for Townsend there is not much to say about him, over 80 games for us and the same faults in his game.

I dont think it was a clearcut without knowing the instructions. in 4yrs time DIer may have had the experience to ask walker to come inside and challenge fellani. However Fazio seems to be getting better the less he plays. His mistake against fiorentina alone would normally have put him in the GG spacegoat of the year category.

Maybe Fazio would have dealt with fellani better however if he the structure of the team was the same and Fazio went out to challenge Fellani the gap was so big between the centre backs it would have solved one issue and caused another. It looked clever by LVG to me and wasnt as simple as challenge fellani which Fazio may well have done better who knows.


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

And yes i know midfield runners tracking etc etc. However Rooney was doing very well at dragging Dier towards vertonghen and causing fellani to have more space. Its why townsend was pulled as his job was to take young, leaving walker (who was playing badly anyway) to either deal with fellani or at least keep the back 4 more compact. Fazio may have been better at organising this on the fly but i think to say Fazio is better in the air is a bit simplistic in this situation.

 

[parklane1]

I dont think it was a clearcut without knowing the instructions. in 4yrs time DIer may have had the experience to ask walker to come inside and challenge fellani. However Fazio seems to be getting better the less he plays. His mistake against fiorentina alone would normally have put him in the GG spacegoat of the year category.

Maybe Fazio would have dealt with fellani better however if he the structure of the team was the same and Fazio went out to challenge Fellani the gap was so big between the centre backs it would have solved one issue and caused another. It looked clever by LVG to me and wasnt as simple as challenge fellani which Fazio may well have done better who knows.


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree about this, I understand what you are saying about drawing a CB out wide but as you know I have been banging on about playing a more defensive CM player who would drop into the space if needed. I said before the game we should have played both Fazio and Stambouli and if we had it would have helped stop the first two goals. Its something Poch has to sort out for next season because if he does not I expect the goals against will be high again.

 

[parklane1]

And yes i know midfield runners tracking etc etc. However Rooney was doing very well at dragging Dier towards vertonghen and causing fellani to have more space. Its why townsend was pulled as his job was to take young, leaving walker (who was playing badly anyway) to either deal with fellani or at least keep the back 4 more compact. Fazio may have been better at organising this on the fly but i think to say Fazio is better in the air is a bit simplistic in this situation.

That is where a more defensive CM comes into play, Stambouli could have dropped onto Rooney ( neither Mason or Bentaleb are good at that), Fazio would then have kept a close eye on Fellaini and Walker on Young.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Yeah ill give you that and its why also as the more experienced centre half id have like verts to take some responsibility in that situation.

He could have told Bentaleb (Or Mason) to take Mata. He could have then shifted to Rooney. Then Dier could have taken Fellani leaving walker with Young.
My guess is that as Townsend got pulled SO early it was him that Poch felt was to blame for the situation.

Inexperienced team where the 2 experienced members Verts and Walker. Either went missing or were having a mare anyway.