Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[metalgear]

read it and thought it was just an "up yours" message to the journalists who often exaggerate outcomes of games in order to make a living.

the first few sentences though... interesting he doesn't mention anything about player rotation when speaking about fatigue (diminished exigy)...was he criticizing his players for not playing to instructions?

 

[Lemonade Money]

He gets us fans, I love the bloke so much

He smell nice

 

[NWND]

This is now my favourite Spurs team since the Jol era. Yeah, i know that the one under Redknapp was better, but I never had the same connection with that team as I did with this one, or the Jol one. One, i think its the manager, Redknapp is just hard to really like as a fan, it's all about Redknapp and he just says whatever suits his agenda all the time. The players were great in terms of quality, but I don't think they played to their full potential. I think if that team had the work-ethic and mentality of this one, we'd have won the title. I really do. I mean four of the players in that team were or are regulars for Real Madrid (Ade, Modric Van der Vaart & Bale).

Anyway, not wishing to hammer what was probably our best team since the double side at the end of the day, but I am just loving the manager and loving the players, the young players that just fight hard for the shirt every game. Not saying they all absolutely love the club and are going to stay here their entire careers, but I think the likes of Bentaleb even really appreciates the opportunity he's been given at Spurs and you can tell it means a lot to the players to win and play well for the fans. It feels like they appreciate being out on that pitch in that shirt, whereas the likes of Modric were just killing time for his big move.

 

[braineclipse]

This is now my favourite Spurs team since the Jol era. Yeah, i know that the one under Redknapp was better, but I never had the same connection with that team as I did with this one, or the Jol one. One, i think its the manager, Redknapp is just hard to really like as a fan, it's all about Redknapp and he just says whatever suits his agenda all the time. The players were great in terms of quality, but I don't think they played to their full potential. I think if that team had the work-ethic and mentality of this one, we'd have won the title. I really do. I mean four of the players in that team were or are regulars for Real Madrid (Ade, Modric Van der Vaart & Bale).

Anyway, not wishing to hammer what was probably our best team since the double side at the end of the day, but I am just loving the manager and loving the players, the young players that just fight hard for the shirt every game. Not saying they all absolutely love the club and are going to stay here their entire careers, but I think the likes of Bentaleb even really appreciates the opportunity he's been given at Spurs and you can tell it means a lot to the players to win and play well for the fans. It feels like they appreciate being out on that pitch in that shirt, whereas the likes of Modric were just killing time for his big move.

I don't think Modric is the one to pick on...

I agree that having players with a real connection with the club is nice, but that's far from enough.

Modric might have seen Spurs more as just a job, and perhaps even just as a stepping stone. But by all reports he worked incredibly hard on the training ground every day to improve himself and get better. On the pitch he put in fantastic efforts week in week out. The kinds of efforts that meant he could play in a midfield duo with someone as immobile as Huddlestone. The kinds of efforts that elevated us as a team. That's also part of the attitude we need. Bale had similar qualities I believe, and just like Modric probably saw us just as a stepping stone.

I think there's been something wrong with the attitude behind the scenes for a long time at the club. Too many players have lacked the attitude shown by Modric and Bale. And I actually think quite a few of the players that lacked that attitude were still fond of the club and felt affinity towards the fans etc. Too many players have seemingly thought that they were already good enough and didn't need to push themselves.

I would rather have someone with Modric's attitude than someone who feels close to the club, but doesn't feel the need to push themselves 100% to get better.

Part of the change we're seeing under Pochettino (imo) is that this "meh, I'm good enough" attitude seems to be unacceptable. There is no "good enough" and there are no excuses. If you're not putting in the work on the training ground you're on your way out or not being selected.

 

[NWND]

I don't think Modric is the one to pick on...

I agree that having players with a real connection with the club is nice, but that's far from enough.

Modric might have seen Spurs more as just a job, and perhaps even just as a stepping stone. But by all reports he worked incredibly hard on the training ground every day to improve himself and get better. On the pitch he put in fantastic efforts week in week out. The kinds of efforts that meant he could play in a midfield duo with someone as immobile as Huddlestone. The kinds of efforts that elevated us as a team. That's also part of the attitude we need. Bale had similar qualities I believe, and just like Modric probably saw us just as a stepping stone.

I think there's been something wrong with the attitude behind the scenes for a long time at the club. Too many players have lacked the attitude shown by Modric and Bale. And I actually think quite a few of the players that lacked that attitude were still fond of the club and felt affinity towards the fans etc. Too many players have seemingly thought that they were already good enough and didn't need to push themselves.

I would rather have someone with Modric's attitude than someone who feels close to the club, but doesn't feel the need to push themselves 100% to get better.

Part of the change we're seeing under Pochettino (imo) is that this "meh, I'm good enough" attitude seems to be unacceptable. There is no "good enough" and there are no excuses. If you're not putting in the work on the training ground you're on your way out or not being selected.

Well yeah your post is probably more accurate and a better way to express how I feel: )

 

[clownfoot]

A criticism of Bielsa has often been that his teams run out of steam towards the end of the season. His high intensity during training and matches has often been blamed for this. I think that's what he was referring to with the start of the quote and also the bit about being used to the criticism.
Forgot to insert the quote sorry

 

[braineclipse]

Well yeah your post is probably more accurate and a better way to express how I feel: )

I did find myself in agreement with much of what you did say too Just the Modric thing that got me reacting... Unsurprised to see that we agree on this.

 

[Bullet]

A criticism of Bielsa has often been that his teams run out of steam towards the end of the season. His high intensity during training and matches has often been blamed for this. I think that's what he was referring to with the start of the quote and also the bit about being used to the criticism.
Forgot to insert the quote sorry

He says something like "In this second part of the season the training sessions are shorter and less intense" which makes sense i.e. if you've got the base fitness and are playing lots of matches, you don't need much more fitness work, but you do need to stretch and assess past games and think about your next opponent and work on set pieces and structure on the pitch etc.

And if you haven't been playing in many games, you still need lots of fitness work to keep levels high.

In essence his quote was saying; when I do well you all say I am a fantastic manager and revolutionary hero, but when I do badly you say the opposite, neither is quite true, I am just a man with some quite good ideas, doing my best.

 

[NWND]

I did find myself in agreement with much of what you did say too Just the Modric thing that got me reacting... Unsurprised to see that we agree on this.

Well yeah I guess it was unfair to single out Modric. I guess it's quite superficial, but because he tried to force a move to Chelsea and didn't do any of the tub-thumping, but quietly went about his business, i guess he was always a player i could appreciate rather than fall in love with. Shame on me I guess. Can't help it. I think my point was more around I felt that team did not reach its full potential and it always felt frustrating at the end of the season in a way that the poorer Jol teams didn't leave you feeling. I think this can maybe be a question mark over Redknapp rather than some of the players. There just did not seem to be the connection between fans and players that there was under Jol and now is under Poch. The atmosphere at the Lane was not as good under Redknapp and AVB as it was under Jol and now under Poch. From pretty much the Everton game onwards most of the times the Lane has been bouncing and an intimidating place to go for opposition teams.

 

[NWND]

I think you're right though in terms of the difference in management styles. I think certain players like Ade, Assou-Ekotto, Kaboul, Pavlyuchenko, Lennon and others (even Van der Vaart) were allowed to coast without too much threat to their places in the team. Rather than taking the real stars of that team like Modric, Bale and King who were willing to work so hard, and using them to galvanise and motivate the rest and set the standard "be like them or you're out", I think they were allowed to outgrow and carry the rest of the team, simply because Redknapp's attitude was clearly "4th was as good as it gets for Spurs, they can't complain if i get 4th, when i came here they had 2 points from 8 games." I don't think he pushed the team the way Poch is pushing the current (inferior) team. Poch is using the younger hungrier players as a core and template. As long as they keep working as hard as when they broke into the side, they'll keep their place. As long as those around them work as hard as they do, they'll get in and stay in the team. Those that are coasting are quickly banished and not invited back as long as they are not upping their game.

 

[braineclipse]

Well yeah I guess it was unfair to single out Modric. I guess it's quite superficial, but because he tried to force a move to Chelsea and didn't do any of the tub-thumping, but quietly went about his business, i guess he was always a player i could appreciate rather than fall in love with. Shame on me I guess. Can't help it. I think my point was more around I felt that team did not reach its full potential and it always felt frustrating at the end of the season in a way that the poorer Jol teams didn't leave you feeling. I think this can maybe be a question mark over Redknapp rather than some of the players. There just did not seem to be the connection between fans and players that there was under Jol and now is under Poch. The atmosphere at the Lane was not as good under Redknapp and AVB as it was under Jol and now under Poch. From pretty much the Everton game onwards most of the times the Lane has been bouncing and an intimidating place to go for opposition teams.

Solid observations. In a way I think there are similarities between Modric and Vertonghen in that both have felt that they've been "better than this" at times during their Spurs careers. Now, Modric as you say quietly got on with playing brilliantly whilst Verts struggled. But in a way I've been sympathetic towards both and their views. Modric in a way clearly was "better than us" in that he was, and is, world class in his role. And the mess the club was in last season I could understand that Vertonghen was frustrated, fudge me, we were all bloody frustrated last season.

Agree that Poch is getting a lot of things right. And recreating a bond between the club/players and the fans is important for sure.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you're right though in terms of the difference in management styles. I think certain players like Ade, Assou-Ekotto, Kaboul, Pavlyuchenko, Lennon and others (even Van der Vaart) were allowed to coast without too much threat to their places in the team. Rather than taking the real stars of that team like Modric, Bale and King who were willing to work so hard, and using them to galvanise and motivate the rest and set the standard "be like them or you're out", I think they were allowed to outgrow and carry the rest of the team, simply because Redknapp's attitude was clearly "4th was as good as it gets for Spurs, they can't complain if i get 4th, when i came here they had 2 points from 8 games." I don't think he pushed the team the way Poch is pushing the current (inferior) team. Poch is using the younger hungrier players as a core and template. As long as they keep working as hard as when they broke into the side, they'll keep their place. As long as those around them work as hard as they do, they'll get in and stay in the team. Those that are coasting are quickly banished and not invited back as long as they are not upping their game.

Agreed. And I think other fan favourites like Dawson and Defoe could be added to that list. Not looking to create controversy or take the thread off topic, and I appreciate that some will disagree with individual players put forward by both of us. But I think there was a shortage of attitude overall and that Poch is doing a great job rectifying that. Hope our signings (and sales) in the summer continue that trend.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think Modric is the one to pick on...

I agree that having players with a real connection with the club is nice, but that's far from enough.

Modric might have seen Spurs more as just a job, and perhaps even just as a stepping stone. But by all reports he worked incredibly hard on the training ground every day to improve himself and get better. On the pitch he put in fantastic efforts week in week out. The kinds of efforts that meant he could play in a midfield duo with someone as immobile as Huddlestone. The kinds of efforts that elevated us as a team. That's also part of the attitude we need. Bale had similar qualities I believe, and just like Modric probably saw us just as a stepping stone.

I think there's been something wrong with the attitude behind the scenes for a long time at the club. Too many players have lacked the attitude shown by Modric and Bale. And I actually think quite a few of the players that lacked that attitude were still fond of the club and felt affinity towards the fans etc. Too many players have seemingly thought that they were already good enough and didn't need to push themselves.

I would rather have someone with Modric's attitude than someone who feels close to the club, but doesn't feel the need to push themselves 100% to get better.

Part of the change we're seeing under Pochettino (imo) is that this "meh, I'm good enough" attitude seems to be unacceptable. There is no "good enough" and there are no excuses. If you're not putting in the work on the training ground you're on your way out or not being selected.

This is an interesting debate. A lot of fans have picked up on Vertonghen's lack of desire or perceived bad attitude almost as if he's doing us a favour by playing for us. Ultimately, would we even be having that discussion if Vertonghen had played well? Probably not I imagine. I actually do agree that his heart doesn't look in it, but how do you measure it? It's just opinion surely. I don't think the mistakes he has made come from a lack of effort. Modric openly stated he wanted to play for Chelsea and rubbed our noses in it by stating they were a bigger club than Spurs, but most of us don't care about that now because he played well.

 

[braineclipse]

This is an interesting debate. A lot of fans have picked up on Vertonghen's lack of desire or perceived bad attitude almost as if he's doing us a favour by playing for us. Ultimately, would we even be having that discussion if Vertonghen had played well? Probably not I imagine. I actually do agree that his heart doesn't look in it, but how do you measure it? It's just opinion surely. I don't think the mistakes he has made come from a lack of effort. Modric openly stated he wanted to play for Chelsea and rubbed our noses in it by stating they were a bigger club than Spurs, but most of us don't care about that now because he played well.

You still don't think Vertonghen seems to have his heart in it? I thought that could be true last season, perhaps at the start of this one. But after Pochettino got his team a bit more settled I think Vertonghen has looked just fine. Pochettino seems to trust Vertonghen, one of the few ever presents in the team in our recent congested fixture list.

I just think once a narrative like "Vertonghen doesn't have his heart in it" gets settled it's almost impossible to shake.

 

[parklane1]

You still don't think Vertonghen seems to have his heart in it? I thought that could be true last season, perhaps at the start of this one. But after Pochettino got his team a bit more settled I think Vertonghen has looked just fine. Pochettino seems to trust Vertonghen, one of the few ever presents in the team in our recent congested fixture list.

I just think once a narrative like "Vertonghen doesn't have his heart in it" gets settled it's almost impossible to shake.

Especially for the experts in body language.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well yeah I guess it was unfair to single out Modric. I guess it's quite superficial, but because he tried to force a move to Chelsea and didn't do any of the tub-thumping, but quietly went about his business, i guess he was always a player i could appreciate rather than fall in love with. Shame on me I guess. Can't help it. I think my point was more around I felt that team did not reach its full potential and it always felt frustrating at the end of the season in a way that the poorer Jol teams didn't leave you feeling. I think this can maybe be a question mark over Redknapp rather than some of the players. There just did not seem to be the connection between fans and players that there was under Jol and now is under Poch. The atmosphere at the Lane was not as good under Redknapp and AVB as it was under Jol and now under Poch. From pretty much the Everton game onwards most of the times the Lane has been bouncing and an intimidating place to go for opposition teams.

As I said at the time mate (to much ridicule -not from you!) Mamic (his agent) was the driver there...

 

[NWND]

You still don't think Vertonghen seems to have his heart in it? I thought that could be true last season, perhaps at the start of this one. But after Pochettino got his team a bit more settled I think Vertonghen has looked just fine. Pochettino seems to trust Vertonghen, one of the few ever presents in the team in our recent congested fixture list.

I just think once a narrative like "Vertonghen doesn't have his heart in it" gets settled it's almost impossible to shake.

He clearly didn't have his heart in it last season but seem to remember him going absolutely mental when we scored the winner against someone like Villa away I think?

 

[FatBloke]

Impressive speech from Bielsa, worth a read and a bit of a ponder when thinking about MoPo. Sorry it is blurry

That is some serious philosophy. Actually read it twice and still do not feel i have digested all of it. Powerful stuff.

Just read it. My eyes hurt. Very true stuff though -- if that's the sort of thing that Poch is reading, fair play.

It's a far cry from the [completely untrue] '90s rumours about Graeme Le Saux's homosexuality because he was left-wing and read the Guardian!

 

[Jurgen the German]

You still don't think Vertonghen seems to have his heart in it? I thought that could be true last season, perhaps at the start of this one. But after Pochettino got his team a bit more settled I think Vertonghen has looked just fine. Pochettino seems to trust Vertonghen, one of the few ever presents in the team in our recent congested fixture list.

I just think once a narrative like "Vertonghen doesn't have his heart in it" gets settled it's almost impossible to shake.

A bit more this season, but not 100% If I'm honest.

 

[Jurgen the German]

As I said at the time mate (to much ridicule -not from you!) Mamic (his agent) was the driver there...

I know we've covered this, but even if this is true (and I don't believe it is), Modric must have been at least complicit. I'm not defending agents, but I do believe they're an easy target as some just can't stomach the idea of the player being in the wrong.