Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Finney Is Back]

Well, then you have to tell us what you think... At least if it's somewhat controversial



First year in charge, I will be happy with improved performances and us being in or around the battle for 4th personally.

Just because people rate Poch doesn't mean that expectations for the short term must be increased massively. I was impressed with how quickly he implemented his ideas at Southampton, but if it takes half a season at Spurs and the results in that time are a bit unstable that's fine with me. A lot of Southampton players have come out and praised what he does on the training ground very highly. Talked about movement patterns, getting the team to function as a unit, developing attacking play. These thing can take some time and training ground work with individuals will most of the time pay off after a while, not immediately.

For me the expectation should be that we finish within the top 6 in the league. Anything less than that is a failure (seeing as our last 3 managers have been sacked while all achieving top 6 finishes). If we can have a good run in at least one of the Europa League or FA Cup then that would be a bonus.

 

[sc25]

First year in charge, I will be happy with improved performances and us being in or around the battle for 4th personally.

Just because people rate Poch doesn't mean that expectations for the short term must be increased massively. I was impressed with how quickly he implemented his ideas at Southampton, but if it takes half a season at Spurs and the results in that time are a bit unstable that's fine with me. A lot of Southampton players have come out and First year in charge, I will be happy with improved performances and us being in or around the battle for 4th personally.

praised what he does on the training ground very highly. Talked about movement patterns, getting the team to function as a unit, developing attacking play. These thing can take some time and training ground work with individuals will most of the time pay off after a while, not immediately.

We were 'in or around a battle for 4th' until the last few weeks this season. Not too fussed personally about what some Soton players said on a training ground. Good for them. As a point of reference, if it potentially bodes well for us then fine, but there's a limit to how much stock I put in that as it relates to us. We are starting to hear quotes from some other Soton players who say some quite different things. Anyway, player talk is talk. More importantly, we'll see how this massive upgrade in manager manifests itself to us in the league and cups, which was my main point.

 

[Cochise]

I'm quite happy for the first 18 months to be a bit rocky, so long as there are signs that our play is improving. For me next summer will be when Poch really earns his money, because despite not having a major tournament in the summer he will have a lot to do as I can imagine a couple of players leaving. That in turn will ruin his pre season and he will have to organise a new batch of players in a new system once again.

 

[braineclipse]

We were 'in or around a battle for 4th' until the last few weeks this season. Not too fussed personally about what some Soton players said on a training ground. Good for them. As a point of reference, if it potentially bodes well for us then fine, but there's a limit to how much stock I put in that as it relates to us. We are starting to hear quotes from some other Soton players who say some quite different things. Anyway, player talk is talk. More importantly, we'll see how this massive upgrade in manager manifests itself to us in the league and cups, which was my main point.

Not sure what your point is. We were "in or around a battle for 4th until the last few weeks this season" so after hiring a new manager automatically we have to expect better straight away?

I haven't seen a single actual quote from any Southampton players like you claim. Would you mind posting a link or source? If player talk is talk what is newspapers reporting on unnamed unknown players supposedly saying something?

The positive talk from the Southampton players might only be talk, but it's been seen alongside some very impressive performances and improvements for their players. I think that somewhat validates their talk as a bit more than just empty talk.

Edit: And for me we were out of the top 4 battle after the loss away to Liverpool. Yeah we still had a mathematical chance, but at that point the realistic chance of us finishing 4th was very very small.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Just read the bbc article, how anyone could read that and think it's negative I don't know?!

 

[Jordinho]

First year in charge, I will be happy with improved performances and us being in or around the battle for 4th personally.

Seeing as we can't dictate how other teams do, my goal would be to break the 70-point mark. Come February and things are looking good on the pitch and in the table, then we can talk about positions.

 

[indianspur]

Somewhat interesting stat popped out at me looking at whoscored.com, Gaston Ramirez only started 3 games this season and was used as a sub 15 times.

He was their record signing when Poch took over, and looked like a good player, but Poch seems to have preferred a lot of other players. Along with shipping out Osvaldo on loan I think it shows that he's not afraid of benching or upsetting the big name, big cost, players.

Goes some way towards showing that he chooses players that fit his system rather than just picking "good players" too? If someone had said last summer that both Rickie Lambert and Jay Rodriguez would start 30+ games this season and Ramirez would only start 3 I think that would have raised some eyebrows.

So who do you guys think is most likely to be the Gaston Ramirez of the Spurs squad? Ade is the obvious candidate I suppose, anyone else? Eriksen has been mentioned as someone that's not the most willing defensive runner? A lot has been said of Lamela and how Poch will look to revive his Spurs career, but how will he fit Poch's system? Any other potential candidates?

Yeah I think Eriksen might be a problem for Poch.........Eriksen can drift out of games and he isn't the hardest worker. It all depends on how Poch handles this. I'd be very disappointed to see Eriksen marginalised in any way.

 

[milo]

We were 'in or around a battle for 4th' until the last few weeks this season. Not too fussed personally about what some Soton players said on a training ground. Good for them. As a point of reference, if it potentially bodes well for us then fine, but there's a limit to how much stock I put in that as it relates to us. We are starting to hear quotes from some other Soton players who say some quite different things. Anyway, player talk is talk. More importantly, we'll see how this massive upgrade in manager manifests itself to us in the league and cups, which was my main point.

I think that it is unrealistic to expect a change of manager alone to be enough to close the gap on a load of clubs with significantly larger budgets than us.

I think that it can be done and with a bit of luck on our side we may stand a chance but to expect it is unrealistic.

 

[sc25]

Not sure what your point is. We were "in or around a battle for 4th until the last few weeks this season" so after hiring a new manager automatically we have to expect better straight away?

Thought my point was clear. The point is, again, this team (or any team for that matter) has just got rid of a clueless idiot and had a massive upgrade in manager...very early in pre-season, more experienced, full pre-season, his squad, and so on. How would you NOT expect better, compared to a clueless idiot? You say 'straight away'? He will have full pre-season, his squad, and presumably a full season, not 20-odd games. If you consider our position next May 2015, a full year away, to be 'straight away', then not sure I agree entirely. I know they have more money so not the best comparison, but Man Yoo are expecting better results ('straight away'?) this season because, at least in part, they feel they will now have a better manager (with new system, who won't even arrive til end of July), yes/no?

 

[DubaiSpur]

For me the expectation should be that we finish within the top 6 in the league. Anything less than that is a failure (seeing as our last 3 managers have been sacked while all achieving top 6 finishes). If we can have a good run in at least one of the Europa League or FA Cup then that would be a bonus.

Eh. Top six while showing some signs of progression (clear tactical plan A and plan B, exciting football, clear ideas of how the players fit into the system, team finding each other consistently with passes and runs into space (key, as it signifies team cohesion)) will do fine for me. If he finishes outside the top six, then there'll be some muttering, but there should absolutely not be the sort of howling derision we've gotten used to in recent seasons, at least not if everything at the club appears to be reasonably in order despite the finish.

Whatever the case, I do hope we go all out in both the COC and the FA Cup. Both are winnable, and we've waited too long for a trophy.

 

[braineclipse]

Thought my point was clear. The point is, again, this team (or any team for that matter) has just had a massive upgrade in manager...very early in pre-season, more experienced, full pre-season, his squad, and so on. How would you NOT expect better, compared to a clueless idiot? You say 'straight away'? He will have full pre-season, his squad, and presumably a full season, not 20-odd games. If you consider our position next May 2015 to have been 'straight away', then not sure I agree entirely. I know they have more money so not the best comparison, but Man Yoo are expecting better results ('straight away'?) this season because, at least in part, they feel they will now have a better manager (with new system, who won't even arrive til end of July), yes/no?

So it's your opinion that Sherwood was a clueless idiot? I don't agree.

For me the first season in charge is straight away. Of course May 2015 is a year away, but for a club like ours to reach 4th+ I think we need to perform for a full season.

Manu have 20+ season in the top 3 iirc, then one 7th place. They have massive resources, yes they expect to bounce back. We have two 4th finishes in the last 20+ years. Expecting us to hit that straight away is slightly different to United expecting to bounce back from one very disappointing season. A more similar expectation would be if United fans expected the title next season. Because that would be matching their best in recent years and that's where they were a year ago.

I'm expecting some changes in personnel, I'm expecting some changes in style. And I'm ok if that takes some time to implement. Look at Rodgers as an example, they improved from 8th to 7th in his first season, not all that impressive. But their performances improved although they were a bit unstable. Then they hit new heights in his second season. According to your expectations that first season Rodgers had should have been deemed a failure and the pressure on him last summer should have been immense.

I don't think setting expectations very high straight away is particularly realistic or helpful. Of course it could happen, but to expect it seems a bit much for me. I'm expecting improvements in performance. I'm expecting us to become a more cohesive unit as the season progresses. If we can do that then we will see improvement in results long term, but short term I think there's a lot of luck and variance and things out of our control that will influence which league position we get.

 

[milo]

So it's your opinion that Sherwood was a clueless idiot? I don't agree.

For me the first season in charge is straight away. Of course May 2015 is a year away, but for a club like ours to reach 4th+ I think we need to perform for a full season.

Manu have 20+ season in the top 3 iirc, then one 7th place. They have massive resources, yes they expect to bounce back. We have two 4th finishes in the last 20+ years. Expecting us to hit that straight away is slightly different to United expecting to bounce back from one very disappointing season. A more similar expectation would be if United fans expected the title next season. Because that would be matching their best in recent years and that's where they were a year ago.

I'm expecting some changes in personnel, I'm expecting some changes in style. And I'm ok if that takes some time to implement. Look at Rodgers as an example, they improved from 8th to 7th in his first season, not all that impressive. But their performances improved although they were a bit unstable. Then they hit new heights in his second season. According to your expectations that first season Rodgers had should have been deemed a failure and the pressure on him last summer should have been immense.

I don't think setting expectations very high straight away is particularly realistic or helpful. Of course it could happen, but to expect it seems a bit much for me. I'm expecting improvements in performance. I'm expecting us to become a more cohesive unit as the season progresses. If we can do that then we will see improvement in results long term, but short term I think there's a lot of luck and variance and things out of our control that will influence which league position we get.

Spot on

 

[LutonSpurs]

Pochetinno is obviously an appointment not made based in previous results in the league table for me. The last 3 managers were sacked for mainly other reasons. Harry for turning his back on us for the England job. Avb for having broken down relations within the club. Sherwood for being an interim manager.

We had to get a new coach in to continue the working of the club. The best man available is Pochetinno. Top 4 will be desirable but not a requirement I feel. Stability at the club and good football is what Levy wants.

 

[sc25]

So it's your opinion that Sherwood was a clueless idiot?

Nope...but I've read that in here, as have you Also heard around March that its 'not that hard to win in the PL if you have a very good squad of players'. Anyways, if there is this huge gulf between Poch and Sherwood, was just wondering how that will correlate to results.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Does anyone have any examples of these supposed negative comments by Saints players about Pochetinno?

 

[VolSpur]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...Roberto-Martinez-s-Everton-copied-their-style

If Poch thinks Martinez tried to copy his playing style then I would suggest 3-4th isn't out of sight next season.

When you compare positionally Everton vs us this season, outside of Lukaku, Barkley and Baines, I'd say we're more talented in every single position.

Not saying I expect it, but it could be possible. I am just hoping Poch is given time, and especially if he starts to show signs like Rodgers did in his first year at Liverpool. Sure they finished 7th (i think) that year, but you'd have to be blind not to see the positive impact he was having. I'm also hoping we finally see something out of our 3 big signings and actually am beginning to get a bit positive that it might just happen in the coming year.

 

[Bullet]

Gaston Ramirez only started 3 games this season and was used as a sub 15 times.

Interesting, he did look good the year before. Maybe he went into a slump in training and games and wasn't impressing, it has happened with players like Palacios at Spurs, you would have to ask a Soton fan why Ramirez didn't play.

Or maybe he didn't work hard enough, who knows.

 

[Jordinho]

Interesting, he did look good the year before. Maybe he went into a slump in training and games and wasn't impressing, it has happened with players like Palacios at Spurs, you would have to ask a Soton fan why Ramirez didn't play.

Or maybe he didn't work hard enough, who knows.

Or maybe he was planning on some big club coming in for him after a year?

 

[PuraVidaMon]

Disappointing 2013/2014 campaign + two fired managers + Bale and Modric winning CL = A long, sad sigh

BUT...

These crappy things now being in the past + new manager + long-term contract + humbled expectations = Genuine excitement for next season

 

[milo]

Nope...but I've read that in here, as have you Also heard around March that its 'not that hard to win in the PL if you have a very good squad of players'. Anyways, if there is this huge gulf between Poch and Sherwood, was just wondering how that will correlate to results.

I think that is a bit of a strawman argument. I'd love to see some posts where people were saying that we would be a shoe in for the top four with a better manager than Sherwood.