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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Surely we have attempted to address this by bringing in a new manager!
Also Lamela did not have a hand in any of those defeats so what is your point?

Poch should not focus solely on Lamella, who remains a wildcard. He should concentrate on solidifying our domination of the key areas of the pitch, particularly dm and cb where our soft underbelly is most exposed.
I'm bewildered by this magical thinking that Lamella will instantly pupate into a butterfly with wings to bear aloft the whole squad, because the manager is a compatriot.
Some beautiful caterpillars hatch out as moths.
 
Erm, I know loads of geezers who had them down to finish 8th or 9th. Not sure why people are kicking up such a fuss at that comment. Getting on the defensive already FFS. BoL mate it's hard to take you too seriously when you overrated AVB so much, AND thought Sherwood was a talented manager.

Nigel Adkins was doing a good job there, IIRC in around November or December they started to look comfortable in this league under him and began playing the pressing game and picking up some great results under him. Whos to say he wouldn't have continued that if not unfairly sacked? Poch merely developed it rather than revolutionised it as some would have you believe.

Adkins was doing a good job yes, they were looking comfortable in 15th place, which is great for a club that just got promoted. Pochettino developed it like you said and took them to the next level. If he does the same at Spurs, who finished 6th in a kind of listless season without even trying, then we could be in for a good time, don't you think?

I'd rather we just got developed than De Boer come in and say "rip all this up lads, i want an Ajax system, playing 4-3-3, all the youth teams to play it, i want all these players signed and all these shipped out and oh dear, this system doesn't work as well in English football does it, its a bit too slow tempo and Levy isn't giving me any player i ask for, therefore i've had enough of this, next job please". Which i think is a distinct possibility.

Rafa on the other hand would probably have fallen out with Levy and Baldini as soon as they refused to sanction spending £30m on an average Italian who had spent the last year injured, or refused to consider selling Eriksen and replacing him with James Milner.
 
Merely...

If we had a manager that "merely" developed our squad to see well over 5 first teamers take solid steps forward over the last season and a half and merly got us the highest league position tipped for by pundits, experts and geezers we would have been delighted.

I agree he didn't revolutionize Southampton, he didn't have to. We don't really need a manager that comes in to revolutionize us either, we need someone to do what Poch did at Southampton. Make good players play good football in a functioning system and develop good players into better players.

Absolutely. It's easy peasy.

TBH, I remember saying it when we played them last to last season with Bale's last minute screamer. I felt he had given Southampton a style in the short space of time he had been there. They really played as a cohesive unit and were unlucky to lose.
 
Absolutely. It's easy peasy.

TBH, I remember saying it when we played them last to last season with Bale's last minute screamer. I felt he had given Southampton a style in the short space of time he had been there. They really played as a cohesive unit and were unlucky to lose.

Agree fully. Just how quickly he managed to implement his system at Southampton was very impressive, and he's impressed ever since.

I actually think the fact that some experts and pundits and geezers too picked Southampton to finish 8th before this season speaks volumes about just how highly Poch was rated. They finished 14th in his first half season in charge, just 5 points ahead of Wigan who got relegated. People that tipped them as highly as 8th were essentially saying that they thought Poch would continue the impressive work he had already started.

Edit: The fact that he did, the fact that he lived up to high expectations and delivered at the upper end of what was expected of them is not an argument against his ability for me. Not when put in the context that people were tipping him to continue improving Southampton.
 
Plus what I like about Pochettino is his drive and ambition, you can really tell he drove Southampton to try and buy a better quality of player and really pushed the youth players and fringe players to improve their game. It looks like his drive was infectious and all the Saints players talk about it. He really drove that club upwards and I think he left in part due to our probably big offer of course, but also I think because he realised he'd pushed all he could and that they were going to sell Shaw and Lallana from underneath him.

But he's done the pushing in a very dignified way, in so far as I don't think he'd make the obvious fuss and tantrums that AVB had when he failed to get the players he wanted, I think as long as we are signing quality players he'd be happy, i don't think he'd push the specific demands that AVB seems to have made, but i definately think Poch is going to really push our players to the max to be the best they can be and if any can't or won't come along they'll be dropped by the wayside.
 
Erm, I know loads of geezers who had them down to finish 8th or 9th. Not sure why people are kicking up such a fuss at that comment. Getting on the defensive already FFS. BoL mate it's hard to take you too seriously when you overrated AVB so much, AND thought Sherwood was a talented manager.

Nigel Adkins was doing a good job there, IIRC in around November or December they started to look comfortable in this league under him and began playing the pressing game and picking up some great results under him. Whos to say he wouldn't have continued that if not unfairly sacked? Poch merely developed it rather than revolutionised it as some would have you believe.

I really rate AVB and Sherwood had his plus points for what is required. Any manager that gets to the elite level and wins some games is going to have something about them. I don't believe in sitting in camps where one guy is great and the other sucks because he isn't the first guy.

But really, look at what Poch has done and look at what we need. There are so many parallels. The idea we just need to pick the guy that's won the most trophies somewhere else is nonsense, because the circumstances they may face at our club would be entirely different. Look at Rodgers and Martinez. It isn't about picking the big name any more, it's about getting the right guy in based on what the club needs and giving them the structure to shine.
 
This is what winds me up about the people that say stuff like this.

Southampton were the 8th best team in HINDSIGHT - at the start of the season who was predicting they would finish 8th? Oh, that's right, hardly anyone. Who would ahve wanted us to sign Lallana, Rodriguez, Lambert, Schneiderlin, Ward-Prowse etc last summer? Absolutely nobody on here I bet. Its absolutely ridiculous that people keep reciting this stupid line about how quality southampton were and that basically i could have rocked up with that amazing squad of young internationals and got them 8th without even trying.

Total rubbish. Lallana is 26, Rodriguez is 24, Lambert 32, Schneiderlin is no spring chicken, Fonte neither. Clyne has been around for a good few years in the lower leagues. Where have they all been hiding? Under a rock? Southampton were in league 1 about 4 seasons ago. They have the 18th highest wage bill in the country. These players were lower league players for a good many seasons before being transformed into this 'quality squad of internationals', THIS season BY Pochettino.

I would put my house on these players going nowhere if Adkins were still in charge. Southampton might have finished around 15th (which is where they were when Adkins left) and that would have been classed as a good season for them having just got promotion, but they'd have plodded along in all likelihood at that level. Shaw would have left as he is an amazing talent who was talked about at youth level before he even broke into the Saints team. All of the rest of them, they'd not have got near the England or French squads I'd bet.

Incredible hindsight by some people. Saudi Sportswashing Machine on paper, have a FAR FAR FAR MASSIVELY superior squad to Southampton. At the start of this season there would not have been any comparison. Cabaye, Collocini, Santon, Debuchy, Sissoko, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Remy, I mean these are all massive reputation player that play for Italy, Argentina, France and you are saying Southampton should have finished 8th because they had a better squad than Saudi Sportswashing Machine on paper? Absolute rubbish. Can't believe i am constantly hearing this rubbish along with "well he doesn't even speak English does he?" rubbish. Its like its an 'in joke' to just constantly wind me up.


Also this idea that you can say "well what has Pochettino done, he just got Southampton to finish 8th, what about De Boer, i mean he got Ajax to win the dutch league 4 times in a row." Well its not as if Ajax have had an established system of constant youth development for decades and constantly churn out quality young players and constantly play 4-3-3 at every youth level and constantly are one of the biggest, richest clubs in Holland and that if you had to speak to any football fan in the street and said "name the team that is going to win the Dutch title this season", about 99.9% of football fans would say "Ajax" and would have done at any poitn they'd been asked this question in the last 40 years (that is unless you are like Gutterboy and spend your entire spare time watching British Eurosport and analysis form and performances of every player in teh world ever.

What has De Boer REALLY achieved that is actually worth anything to what we want him to do at Spurs? He's basically been in an 'ajax family' nursery environment where basically he rocks up says, "i'm frank de boer, i want to play 4-3-3 and bring through all the youth players and play possession football and win the league" and everyone says "great, that's what every Ajax manager since Cruyff has said and done". Yes, they went 7 years without winning the league or whatever anyone said, but they were always going to arrest that cycle, they are Ajax, they had an amazing crop of young players coming through and still do.

I'm not taking anything away from De Boer, but its ridiculous to brand him less of a gamble than Pochettino who knows what is required to manage in England, has transformed a style of play at a club in England and successfully implemented ideas in England with English players, under the scrutiny of the English media, and this after also successfully doing this in Spain with Espanyol, where he is still popular to this day.

What winds me up isn't that people point out potential downfalls in Pochettino, or point out why they'd preferred other candidates, its that they constantly peddle the same tired rubbish that does not have any basis in any fact whatsoever and its just really sad.

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This is what winds me up about the people that say stuff like this.

Southampton were the 8th best team in HINDSIGHT - at the start of the season who was predicting they would finish 8th? Oh, that's right, hardly anyone. Who would ahve wanted us to sign Lallana, Rodriguez, Lambert, Schneiderlin, Ward-Prowse etc last summer? Absolutely nobody on here I bet. Its absolutely ridiculous that people keep reciting this stupid line about how quality southampton were and that basically i could have rocked up with that amazing squad of young internationals and got them 8th without even trying.

Total rubbish. Lallana is 26, Rodriguez is 24, Lambert 32, Schneiderlin is no spring chicken, Fonte neither. Clyne has been around for a good few years in the lower leagues. Where have they all been hiding? Under a rock? Southampton were in league 1 about 4 seasons ago. They have the 18th highest wage bill in the country. These players were lower league players for a good many seasons before being transformed into this 'quality squad of internationals', THIS season BY Pochettino.

I would put my house on these players going nowhere if Adkins were still in charge. Southampton might have finished around 15th (which is where they were when Adkins left) and that would have been classed as a good season for them having just got promotion, but they'd have plodded along in all likelihood at that level. Shaw would have left as he is an amazing talent who was talked about at youth level before he even broke into the Saints team. All of the rest of them, they'd not have got near the England or French squads I'd bet.

Incredible hindsight by some people. Saudi Sportswashing Machine on paper, have a FAR FAR FAR MASSIVELY superior squad to Southampton. At the start of this season there would not have been any comparison. Cabaye, Collocini, Santon, Debuchy, Sissoko, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Remy, I mean these are all massive reputation player that play for Italy, Argentina, France and you are saying Southampton should have finished 8th because they had a better squad than Saudi Sportswashing Machine on paper? Absolute rubbish. Can't believe i am constantly hearing this rubbish along with "well he doesn't even speak English does he?" rubbish. Its like its an 'in joke' to just constantly wind me up.


Also this idea that you can say "well what has Pochettino done, he just got Southampton to finish 8th, what about De Boer, i mean he got Ajax to win the dutch league 4 times in a row." Well its not as if Ajax have had an established system of constant youth development for decades and constantly churn out quality young players and constantly play 4-3-3 at every youth level and constantly are one of the biggest, richest clubs in Holland and that if you had to speak to any football fan in the street and said "name the team that is going to win the Dutch title this season", about 99.9% of football fans would say "Ajax" and would have done at any poitn they'd been asked this question in the last 40 years (that is unless you are like Gutterboy and spend your entire spare time watching British Eurosport and analysis form and performances of every player in teh world ever.

What has De Boer REALLY achieved that is actually worth anything to what we want him to do at Spurs? He's basically been in an 'ajax family' nursery environment where basically he rocks up says, "i'm frank de boer, i want to play 4-3-3 and bring through all the youth players and play possession football and win the league" and everyone says "great, that's what every Ajax manager since Cruyff has said and done". Yes, they went 7 years without winning the league or whatever anyone said, but they were always going to arrest that cycle, they are Ajax, they had an amazing crop of young players coming through and still do.

I'm not taking anything away from De Boer, but its ridiculous to brand him less of a gamble than Pochettino who knows what is required to manage in England, has transformed a style of play at a club in England and successfully implemented ideas in England with English players, under the scrutiny of the English media, and this after also successfully doing this in Spain with Espanyol, where he is still popular to this day.

What winds me up isn't that people point out potential downfalls in Pochettino, or point out why they'd preferred other candidates, its that they constantly peddle the same tired rubbish that does not have any basis in any fact whatsoever and its just really sad.

=D>=D>=D>
 
Just a bit more for some of you Captain Hindsights of the board, here's how this Southampton squad was actually rated before Poch got to work on them:

BBC - 11th
Guardian - 14th
Telegraph - 18th

Even Matt Le Tissier - the pundit most biased towards Southampton around - only predicted 10th.


You might say he had a talented squad at his disposal. Yes he did. But only after he turned average players into decent ones:

This was Adam Lallana before Pochettino took over - http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...g Machine-boss-alan-pardew-will-table-1472888

Jay Rodriguez? 6 goals in 35 Premier League appearances in the 2012/13 season, and four of those goals came after Poch took over in the second half of the season. Lambert had done well the previous season to be fair, and had scored goals consistently in the lower leagues. However, we've seen more players than I can remember from over the years come up to the Premier League, have one great goalscoring season, then get found out, see Marcus Stewart, Grant Holt, DJ Campbell etc, that's what I was kind of expecting from him.

Good managers make their players look good, bad ones make them look bad. It's why it ****es me off that everyone says "oh well Redknapp should have finished 4th, he had the 4th best team", despite the fact that the same team was in 20th position when he took over and had finished 11th the season before. If Poch can do what he's done with Lallana, Rodriguez, Shaw, Ward-Prowse etc with the likes of Townsend, Lamela, Eriksen, Bentaleb and even Danny Rose, we could have a phenomenal team on our hands.
 
Erm, I know loads of geezers who had them down to finish 8th or 9th. Not sure why people are kicking up such a fuss at that comment. Getting on the defensive already FFS. BoL mate it's hard to take you too seriously when you overrated AVB so much, AND thought Sherwood was a talented manager.

Nigel Adkins was doing a good job there, IIRC in around November or December they started to look comfortable in this league under him and began playing the pressing game and picking up some great results under him. Whos to say he wouldn't have continued that if not unfairly sacked? Poch merely developed it rather than revolutionised it as some would have you believe.



Yes, precisely why Levy has brought him in! He will be charged with bringing together a squad of players so badly managed under avb and even more so by Sherwood!
He has players that besides the tactical ineptitude of the latter managed 6th place last season. Poch merely needs to develop the team with an effective philosophy and instil some belief. As you so rightly pointed out above he has shown that he can do this
 
Poch should not focus solely on Lamella, who remains a wildcard. He should concentrate on solidifying our domination of the key areas of the pitch, particularly dm and cb where our soft underbelly is most exposed.
I'm bewildered by this magical thinking that Lamella will instantly pupate into a butterfly with wings to bear aloft the whole squad, because the manager is a compatriot.
Some beautiful caterpillars hatch out as moths.

This isn't what you said originally though is it? You suggested that we sell him because he has had a poor first season at a club that has given mismanagement a new meaning! Now you have changed your tune a little bit.

Llamela is an exciting prospect, what is wrong with hoping a new man can get the best out of him? Noone is saying this should be Poch's sole remit, just one of them. After all, if he can get the best out of Llamela while organising the mess of a defense left by Sherwood and bringing those players alienated by him back into the fold too then we are well on the way to a better Tottenham Hotspur.
 
I did a page or so back

Yes, indeed you did. I had meant to say 'anyone else' in my post so apologies...



Anyone else care to give their views on my questions below:

I'd like to ask those who have followed Pochettino at Soton (and even at Espanoyl), what is generally his Plan A, Plan B (and Plan C if relevant)?

I hear a lot about the pressing game; just wondered if there were other methods he employed. I worry a bit that the pressing game is not balanced to save us from burn-out at the latter stages of a season; kinda like what I saw with Bielsa's lovely Bilboa team two season's ago.

Also will Pochettio ever play with two strikers, perhaps in front of a midfield diamond a la Rodgers at Liverpool?
 
Does anyone know what went wrong for him at Espanyol? He took a struggling club to mid-table and then in his last season only got 8 points from 13 games before being given the boot, they then went on to finish mid-table again. Was there other issues or is it something we should be concerned about?
 
Does anyone know what went wrong for him at Espanyol? He took a struggling club to mid-table and then in his last season only got 8 points from 13 games before being given the boot, they then went on to finish mid-table again. Was there other issues or is it something we should be concerned about?

Obviously at least a slight cause for concern, or rather, he would look even stronger if that hadn't happened.

To me context is important here, not pretending to be an expert - all I know is from reading articles and internet sources.

They did have a total of £20m net transfer profit in total during Poch's last two seasons (the one where he got fired and the one before). One article said that he introduced 20 academy/reserve players into the first team during his 2.5 years in charge there. They had severe financial problems and were primarily signing players on free transfers and on loans. Not the easiest of conditions.

In addition Espanyol is a struggling club in general, sooner or later a manager will hit a rough patch and doing so at some point in 2.5 years there doesn't surprise me. Not quite regression to the mean, but rather hitting that end of the bell curve at some point.

All in all I hope it's more of a blip than a sign of an underlying issue. At a club like ours with more financial stability and transfer power hopefully the same won't happen.
 
i might be wrong but i think part of their financial problems were that players were not being paid either
 
This isn't what you said originally though is it? You suggested that we sell him because he has had a poor first season at a club that has given mismanagement a new meaning! Now you have changed your tune a little bit.

Llamela is an exciting prospect, what is wrong with hoping a new man can get the best out of him? Noone is saying this should be Poch's sole remit, just one of them. After all, if he can get the best out of Llamela while organising the mess of a defense left by Sherwood and bringing those players alienated by him back into the fold too then we are well on the way to a better Tottenham Hotspur.

Do me a favour. I would not blink if we moved Lamella on. I've said elsewhere he was our Andy Carroll moment.
 
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