Absolute state of this thread. The arguments against a Manager that has done literal wonders for us really are sad to read.
First of all, this idea that ‘we aren’t seeing the evidence he can turn it around’ just subscribes to a notion of football that I thought we had debunked when Poch first started getting success here. He is a great Manager, he has the skills, the characteristics, the qualities, but he is not the only reason we succeeded. We were able to overcome the disadvantage of less money by building a squad where everyone was bought in to the bigger picture, everyone wanted to be here, everyone had a relentless desire to improve, was suited to the system and everything that entailed. That created a unity, a spirit, a common cause and a team that could overcome structural disadvantages. And that wasn’t only down to Poch. He was a perfect fit for the situation, but it also required Levy reducing expectations on a new Manager for the first time in years. It requires him backing Poch’s moves to sell certain players, to get the ones he wanted, and it required players good enough to take responsibility and step up when they had the opportunity. The entire club was pointed in one direction and that was why we succeeded. Poch was a massive part of it, but Levy and the players did their part as well.
Now, Poch has been calling for a rebuild for two years. He’s wanted it to happen, for various reasons it hasn’t happened. So he’s left with a squad that partly doesn’t have as much of a financial disadvantage anymore, but has lost a bit of unity, the relentless desire to improve, the clear sightedness that Spurs is the best place for them. The issues are not just one of the Manager, it is that the players no longer want to be here in some cases, and in others we haven’t been able to find the buyers. Changing the Manager doesn’t change those issues - it doesn’t make players want to stay, and it doesn’t make it any easier for us to shift them than it has been. Changing Manager puts us on course for a new strategy, and all of the different pieces will have to be in place to make that work, just as before. In this instance, we need certain players out, otherwise no Manager will succeed.
All this talk of tactics or whether he drops this or that player are misnomers IMO. The structural issues need to align for us to really power forward again, like they did 5 years ago. That is how a club is successful.
Secondly, the question really should be answered by those that are claiming it is super simple to just drop the players as he did before...why isn’t he doing it? Please offer any explanation at all as to why, just to show that you have at least thought about the other side of the argument. There simply has to be reasons. It is no use saying he’s missing the obvious thing, as that is just rubbish debating. For what it’s worth, I think he will drop those players, as the season progresses, we will be seeing the new ones player bigger roles. But this isn’t a case of old players refusing to conform to new methods. This is current players simply not having the same relentless spark at this club that they had 5 years ago. It happens, simply because of the passage of time. And if they are part of the squad, we need them, if only to protect and save up the legs of the players we will need later in the year. Not to mention, taking this as an example, Eriksen. We couldn’t sell him, so we get no fee. The silver lining should be we still have a good player in our squad. But not if we bomb him we don’t. It’s not an easy, obvious decision, particularly if he is still working hard in training, just feeling slightly less inspired. How ridiculous would it be to keep him for that final year, not play him, and then lose him for nothing anyway? Is the benefit to the rest of the team so obvious by bombing him? It isnt. But he will he dropped as the season kicks into high gear, it will just be when we don’t need him as much and we’re properly phasing in the new crew.
Mate, you and I usually aren't too far off in opinions, but I disagree here
- Poch
was a great manager, and specifically he was a great manager in a club that had ambition to be top 4 and compete for titles.
- He
was a great manager in taking a very young squad, making them fit, giving them a system, improving primarily the FBs and incorporating Dele.
- Average age of that squad
was ~22 or so.
Poch has not shown himself to be a great manager when
- The requirement is to be top 4 and
win things
- The squad is established professionals at the prime of their career
- Getting truly exceptional players to push on (Dele, Eriksen, Lamela)
- Average age of the squad is ~27 or so?
I am completely, completely confused by the absolute acceptance that "the players are jaded/tired/unmotivated due to time, Poch (his job) is unable to motivate them anymore, so lets replace/rebuild"
This squad does NOT need a rebuild, and honestly if Poch believes that, he should fudging go ..
For next season as example
GK situation -> fine as long as Hugo recovers
CB's -> Jan +1 of Foyth/Sanchez/Tangaga/Dier, Toby out, potentially a new CB here (1 player)
FBs -> RB required, Davies +1 at LB, Rose out (1 player)
CM -> Sessegnon, Lamela, Winks, Lo Celso, Dele, N'dombele, Lucas, Sissoko, Eriksen out, either a DM or another creative depending on style (1 player)
Strikers -> Kane, Son, Troy, no one out, nothing needed
At most 3 players, maybe 4 if you want to add another attacking/defensive player
- Fernandes and Dybala already identified and prices apparently were agreed
- So as little as 2 players to find/buy
Poch has no rights .. I don't have a right to have a brick year because I've given my company 17 exceptional years, it just doesn't work that way.
Again, is he really an exceptional manager or was he an exceptional manager for that moment, for that squad, for this club at that particular stage of the journey?
The argument most people have re drop players, formation, whatever is "what is he doing to change the form?" (
19 losses in 41 games), seems to me to be the same, same lineups (with occasional nonsense adjustment of 1 player), same fudging diamond, same asking FBS that are not good enough to somehow be Rose/Walker of 3 seasons ago. If he is playing Eriksen because we are more worried about his sale value (with less than 12 months on contract) than results, again he should fudging go …
I think more that Poch is excellent, Levy is excellent, and together they got the right players to be aligned, which put near excellence on the field too.
And the point is that Levy has been here for years, I don’t think the plan, or he ever thought we would be a consistent top 4 team 4 years before getting into the stadium. I think we would have been taking the next step once the stadium was built and we were leveraging the revenues, not this much before and not with this consistency. Poch was a unique fit that did a uniquely fantastic job.
Levy is the success of Spurs, not Poch, Poch is just another step in a long line of progress from the early missteps -> BMJ -> Harry -> Poch and at every step I've heard when tis manager leaves it's going to be a disaster and we will lose all the progress .. really? 18+ years now of almost constant upward trajectory in results, league placement, income, player quality, almost any measure of success on or of field with exception of that very last step (trophies)
As I said mate, respect your opinion but really, the keep Poch argument seems to down to
- He will turn it around because he was good 2 years ago
- He's been a great manager for us (effectively the same point as above)
The reality
- Club is on a miserable run of form for 10 months
- We still have something to salvage this season (PL, CL and FA Cup)
- We can't refresh squad until January, at which stage the above point will no longer likely be relevant
- This should be an easy season (United, Chelsea & Scum are not at their best)
History only shows this ending one way, and the logical answer with two of the best managers in world football available is to not wait for the inevitable.
- What score do we have to lose the CL and Pool matches by to change people's mind?
