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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Excuses after excuses .. simple quote

“When setting expectations, no matter what has been said or written, if substandard performance is accepted and no one is held accountable — if there are no consequences — that poor performance becomes the new standard. Therefore, leaders must enforce standards.”
 
Legohamster said:
Except he has said the opposite 2 weeks ago and Levy said he has players he doesn’t want here 3 days ago.

If they are as bad as being made out, there is no need to protect them.
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These are long serving players who don't deserve to be thrown under the bus even if their form has dropped off and they see their futures elsewhere.
 
Anything is possible at Spurs, especially under Levy. Pochettino may have brought us to CL final but he cannot expect any favour from Levy. Past achievement means nothing to Levy as he has sacked Jol who brought us 2 consecutive top 5 finishes, Ramos who won us the League Cup, Redknapp who brought us CL football and AVB who achieved record league points. Pochettino better do something to improve our current form instantly.
 
Raziel said:
How we got here is not important, its an excuse and that's the problem, we have and continue to give the squad an excuse. I still think

- Hugo, Gazza, Jan, Sanchez, Tangaga, Foyth, Dier, Davies, Winks, Sissoko, N'dombele, Sessegnon, Dele, Lucas, Lo Celso, Lamela, Son, Kane, Troy can be your base

Even if as everyone thinks for whatever reason we got rid of Toby, Aurier, KWP, Rose, Eriksen, Wanyama all at once, you still have a 19 man squad that again if you added 1 CB, 2 FBs and 1 DM it is not some crazy overhaul, not some "rebuild"
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Strictly depends where each person thinks the line is drawn in terms of the use of each term.......overhaul,refresh,rebuild and even those terms could be interchangeable.

FWIW worth ....if from summer 2019 to summer 2020 my team faced changing the whole first choice back four and the DCM options in front of it and finally had to replace the most creative player in the team......and someone classed it as a rebuild or overhaul I wouldn't push back against it, as it looks like one moreso given the number of first team starters within those mentioned that are on their way.
 
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Raziel said:
How we got here is not important, its an excuse and that's the problem, we have and continue to give the squad an excuse. I still think

- Hugo, Gazza, Jan, Sanchez, Tangaga, Foyth, Dier, Davies, Winks, Sissoko, N'dombele, Sessegnon, Dele, Lucas, Lo Celso, Lamela, Son, Kane, Troy can be your base

Even if as everyone thinks for whatever reason we got rid of Toby, Aurier, KWP, Rose, Eriksen, Wanyama all at once, you still have a 19 man squad that again if you added 1 CB, 2 FBs and 1 DM it is not some crazy overhaul, not some "rebuild"
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How we got here most certainly is important when supporters are looking to apportion blame - how else do you do that without looking back at how we have arrived at this point? Ludicrous statement.
 
Raziel said:
Mate, you and I usually aren't too far off in opinions, but I disagree here

- Poch was a great manager, and specifically he was a great manager in a club that had ambition to be top 4 and compete for titles.
- He was a great manager in taking a very young squad, making them fit, giving them a system, improving primarily the FBs and incorporating Dele.
- Average age of that squad was ~22 or so.

Poch has not shown himself to be a great manager when
- The requirement is to be top 4 and win things
- The squad is established professionals at the prime of their career
- Getting truly exceptional players to push on (Dele, Eriksen, Lamela)
- Average age of the squad is ~27 or so?

I am completely, completely confused by the absolute acceptance that "the players are jaded/tired/unmotivated due to time, Poch (his job) is unable to motivate them anymore, so lets replace/rebuild"

This squad does NOT need a rebuild, and honestly if Poch believes that, he should fudging go ..

For next season as example
GK situation -> fine as long as Hugo recovers
CB's -> Jan +1 of Foyth/Sanchez/Tangaga/Dier, Toby out, potentially a new CB here (1 player)
FBs -> RB required, Davies +1 at LB, Rose out (1 player)
CM -> Sessegnon, Lamela, Winks, Lo Celso, Dele, N'dombele, Lucas, Sissoko, Eriksen out, either a DM or another creative depending on style (1 player)
Strikers -> Kane, Son, Troy, no one out, nothing needed

At most 3 players, maybe 4 if you want to add another attacking/defensive player
- Fernandes and Dybala already identified and prices apparently were agreed
- So as little as 2 players to find/buy

Poch has no rights .. I don't have a right to have a brick year because I've given my company 17 exceptional years, it just doesn't work that way.

Again, is he really an exceptional manager or was he an exceptional manager for that moment, for that squad, for this club at that particular stage of the journey?

The argument most people have re drop players, formation, whatever is "what is he doing to change the form?" (19 losses in 41 games), seems to me to be the same, same lineups (with occasional nonsense adjustment of 1 player), same fudging diamond, same asking FBS that are not good enough to somehow be Rose/Walker of 3 seasons ago. If he is playing Eriksen because we are more worried about his sale value (with less than 12 months on contract) than results, again he should fudging go …

​

Levy is the success of Spurs, not Poch, Poch is just another step in a long line of progress from the early missteps -> BMJ -> Harry -> Poch and at every step I've heard when tis manager leaves it's going to be a disaster and we will lose all the progress .. really? 18+ years now of almost constant upward trajectory in results, league placement, income, player quality, almost any measure of success on or of field with exception of that very last step (trophies)

As I said mate, respect your opinion but really, the keep Poch argument seems to down to

- He will turn it around because he was good 2 years ago
- He's been a great manager for us (effectively the same point as above)

The reality

- Club is on a miserable run of form for 10 months
- We still have something to salvage this season (PL, CL and FA Cup)
- We can't refresh squad until January, at which stage the above point will no longer likely be relevant
- This should be an easy season (United, Chelsea & Scum are not at their best)

History only shows this ending one way, and the logical answer with two of the best managers in world football available is to not wait for the inevitable.

- What score do we have to lose the CL and Pool matches by to change people's mind?
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You’re saying Poch hasn’t shown himself to be a great Manager with more experienced players, but this is a team coming to the end of its cycle. I’m not saying the whole team needs to be replaced, I am saying though that we need a new dynamic, where new leaders need to emerge, and a new common purpose needs to be formed. I agree it’s not necessarily massive change, but it is a dynamic shift. To have key players not here for the long term, not with the same relentless focus on improvement and clear sightedness that Spurs is the right place for them, and those be the experienced players, it makes it harder.

To me, get Toby, Rose, Eriksen and Wanyama out, and it helps with the dynamic shift. Maybe Aurier too. I think the mere act of doing that, promoting different players to more prominent roles, creating new leaders, that helps massively. That’s all I think we need. Getting to a situation where the whole club is aligned again, moving in that direction.
Get Bruno Fernandes in, maybe Dybala if we’re lucky in January, and thinks look good.

I go back to the idea that I think this is a broader, structural issue and we need to show patience and clarity of thought with our strategy. The idea that Poch, if we was a ‘better’ manager, would have done this or that given the exact same tools, is the idea that we as Spurs are never due a down cycle. We never have struggles, Poch as a good manager will constantly overachieve, in spite of challenges around players not leaving, injuries, relative lack of spending power, it’s all going to be consistent sunshine with no troubles? It doesn’t make sense. Both of these things can be true: Poch is a good Manager that is right for us, and Spurs can enter a tough period. It doesn’t mean we have to throw the strategy out and start again with someone else. We should clearly analyse why we think the problems are occurring, what is different from before and how we got success, and what we can do to get back there.

History doesn’t show this ends one way. Fergie is a special example but he is a relevant example - given we have probably been the closest run to using the principles than made them successful in the modern era. When you are building over the long term, sometimes patience is required.

And I just don’t agree that we were always going to progress this way under Levy. I think we should have maybe got the occasion 4th place perhaps over the last 5 years before the stadium, not the consistent top 3 finishes we got. That was Poch’s excellence combined with Levy’s excellence.

He’s doing what he can to change the form, formations etc and changes in strategy to keep it interesting, but to me it comes down to the dynamic of the team right now. Everyone being on the same page works better than people with different agendas. He’s not playing Eriksen to protect resale value, it’s doing it to protect what we have of a fragile dynamic, as bombing him out too early could do more harm than good.
 
Legohamster said:
Losers meteorology I’m afraid.

They are all there to win matches, if they are not performing they are not in 11.

Plus the manager has already said it- a few times.
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Im talking about what is said publically not what goes on behind closed doors or who gets picked/dropped.
 
billyiddo said:
Im talking about what is said publically not what goes on behind closed doors or who gets picked/dropped.
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Much the same thing.

Certain players are taking the tinkle, we shouldn’t be protecting them.

Call them out.

And again.... he’s already done it so it makes him look weak.
 
Being called out publically really is nothing like addressing something behind closed doors.

Managers calling players out publically never ends well and mostly looks unprofessional- nevermind the fact we don't actually know if players are taking the tinkle or just having a collective slump. It wasn't so long ago you were criticising Poch for dropping Eriksen who many/most would say is the chief culprit where taking the tinkle is concerned so it's starting to feel like whatever action the manager takes at this point certain people will ensure they find fault with it.
 
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billyiddo said:
How we got here most certainly is important when supporters are looking to apportion blame - how else do you do that without looking back at how we have arrived at this point? Ludicrous statement.
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Blame is the same as excuse .. reality is responsibility lies with the manager .. something you simply have not been able to grasp.

What score does it need to be today for you to think different?
 
This guy is a one trick pony and he acts like a child when he gets found out. He's completely done here and we are just prolonging the inevitable. He's not a leader at all.

If he had the sort of integrity he talks about, he'd resign. But he won't. He'll wait for the payoff. Which is not to say he isn't entitled to it or I wouldn't do the same but itll further show him up for the charlatan he is.

He did some great things here but he's just a one trick pony with an impressive trick that gets exposed after a while. Time to go.
 
Why does he hate creative midfielders? [emoji38][emoji38]

What did they do to him in his career where he thinks a midfield of Sissoko and Winks is acceptable? [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji58]

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