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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

D'you really think that's what I meant?

There's many steps to a transition...I'm saying let him take some.

Your offering 3 games, and if he's still sh.it...he goes.
That's fair enough if you think that he needs to just show he (still) has any managerial currency left.

I just think he has, and so naturally my window of opportunity for Poch is just longer. I'm with your suggestion (if you still think it?) that Sanchez Foyth KWP Alli Moura all need to be in the starting X1 more and if we can add to that availability of the 3 new boys things really start to look different.

Of course anything new can take a while in itself to start looking good BUT I agree it's the performances that matter...the energy, willingness, togetherness that will in the short term show if we've set a new course.

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The whole point is not that we stop one team, shuffle the players around, and start the next. It doesnt work that way
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D'you really think that's what I meant?

There's many steps to a transition...I'm saying let him take some.

Your offering 3 games, and if he's still sh.it...he goes.
That's fair enough if you think that he needs to just show he (still) has any managerial currency left.

I just think he has, and so naturally my window of opportunity for Poch is just longer. I'm with your suggestion (if you still think it?) that Sanchez Foyth KWP Alli Moura all need to be in the starting X1 more and if we can add to that availability of the 3 new boys things really start to look different.

Of course anything new can take a while in itself to start looking good BUT I agree it's the performances that matter...the energy, willingness, togetherness that will in the short term show if we've set a new course.

And if it is the old guard that's causing the problem I just want to see the other side of that to find out.

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
The whole point is not that we stop one team, shuffle the players around, and start the next. It doesnt work that way
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ricky2tricky4city said:
D'you really think that's what I meant?

There's many steps to a transition...I'm saying let him take some.

Your offering 3 games, and if he's still sh.it...he goes.
That's fair enough if you think that he needs to just show he (still) has any managerial currency left.

I just think he has, and so naturally my window of opportunity for Poch is just longer. I'm with your suggestion (if you still think it?) that Sanchez Foyth KWP Alli Moura all need to be in the starting X1 more and if we can add to that availability of the 3 new boys things really start to look different.

Of course anything new can take a while in itself to start looking good BUT I agree it's the performances that matter...the energy, willingness, togetherness that will in the short term show if we've set a new course.
Click to expand...

I'd argue for me it isn't even the performance outright .. i.e. I'm not expecting champagne football, it's more

- Get the fudging basics right, don't overcommit, don't try stupid/unecessary brick, players hold their position, don't play shapes that either leave us over exposed or too narrow. Keep it simple and rely on Kane/Son and our attacking quality to win games, worse case you draw 0-0 .. better than losing 3-0 to relegation fodder.

If he doesn't show that he at least understands we have to get the basics right now .. 3 games is already too much
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
D'you really think that's what I meant?

There's many steps to a transition...I'm saying let him take some.

Your offering 3 games, and if he's still sh.it...he goes.
That's fair enough if you think that he needs to just show he (still) has any managerial currency left.

I just think he has, and so naturally my window of opportunity for Poch is just longer. I'm with your suggestion (if you still think it?) that Sanchez Foyth KWP Alli Moura all need to be in the starting X1 more and if we can add to that availability of the 3 new boys things really start to look different.

Of course anything new can take a while in itself to start looking good BUT I agree it's the performances that matter...the energy, willingness, togetherness that will in the short term show if we've set a new course.

And if it is the old guard that's causing the problem I just want to see the other side of that to find out.
Click to expand...

Its not 3 games, at that point it will have been 14.

14 games where performance and basic management, fundamentals, have been failing.

If that were premier league games it would represent 36% of the season. Is that not enough time to expect to be seeing improvements in performances? See some issues, and those issues being resolved, and solutions taking hold?

You say there are many steps to transition - let him take some. I ask - why hasnt he already?

If it is the old guard causing problems - why do we need to wait to sort it out? Why hasnt he already?

There seems to be an odd theme around of Poch getting an utterly free pass for a while for no real reason. Do what he likes, rooster up what he likes, its all good - he has credit in the bank...

My criticism of him to date (and concern) is the issues Im looking at he could have fixed already! In that instance, why would I wait longer and longer to see if he works it out?! 14 games is plenty to expect to see signs of work being done, solutions found etc.
 
DeanoAustin said:
He might get them upper mid-table. That'd be the extent of it. Better than Silva is currently doing? Yes. Where Everton could get to with the right man? Not a chance.
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Just out of interest where do you think Everton could get to and who could take them there?

It’s something I often debate with my close footy friends who feel the opposite but it does seem that performing with less resources can make people believe they are incapable of doing better with more, whereas I feel that the track record of overachievement should lead to more opportunities with a better her budget.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I was responding to the conversation where you kept replying to posters it's Watford Belgrade and Pool.

Sorry for using your own suggestion:rolleyes:
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3 games from now, after the 11 we have had, and weeks we have spent discussing the issues.

Not 3 games from now, the instance issues are recognised, as you seem to want to frame it.


billyiddo said:
I don't think he's anywhere near having 3 games to save his job and i think Levy will actually buck the trend and have his back for a lot longer than that
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Easier said than done. A few shocking performances and that good will can fade.

As I said yesterday, IMO he has until the crowd turns - once that happens its usually lights out.
 
thfcsteff said:
Allow me to try and offer an explanation.
Perhaps -given that he developed most of these players into the players they became, given that he moulded this squad- he has been bamboozled by their subsequent inability to perform at even a perfunctory level since the close of the window. Let's face it, if they even went at average it would be enough for top 4 this season. The fact that some are playing like an absolute gaggle of clams is probably both bewildering and painful for him to accept.

I would suggest that he might be wrapping his head around all of that. And that hopefully he can get to grips with it quickly and fudge the likes of Alderweireld and Eriksen off.

I will be the first to apologize of those specific players prove me wrong this season. I hope they make a mug of me. I am not holding my breath. And if they did it for a new manager and not Poch, I'd be even more disgusted than I currently am.
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Very good Spurs Show just posted today. I’d recommend a listen.

The word that they’d all heard is that the senior players (including Kane) have had enough of the training methods, and Poch’s insistence on following certain daily routines around the training ground, no matter what the circumstances. His strange comments pre-CL Final were apparently the last straw for most. Poch reported as trying to manage his way out of the club but wants to leave by the front door in the summer, and with his relationship with the fans intact.

Could all be gonads, of course, but it is a good listen.

https://play.acast.com/s/the-spurs-show/ee821825-fca0-4a90-bf75-518630853a5f
 
MKSpur said:
Just out of interest where do you think Everton could get to and who could take them there?

It’s something I often debate with my close footy friends who feel the opposite but it does seem that performing with less resources can make people believe they are incapable of doing better with more, whereas I feel that the track record of overachievement should lead to more opportunities with a better her budget.
Click to expand...

Everton could crack top 6 and push for top 4 with a few good signings and they aren't afraid to splash the cash. They've just bought very badly. Similar to how we did with the Bale money.

I know what you're saying about Dyche but his style of football is limited and wouldn't take him much further than he has Burnley even if he has more resources. Similar to David Moyes in that respect.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Everton could crack top 6 and push for top 4 with a few good signings and they aren't afraid to splash the cash. They've just bought very badly. Similar to how we did with the Bale money.

I know what you're saying about Dyche but his style of football is limited and wouldn't take him much further than he has Burnley even if he has more resources. Similar to David Moyes in that respect.
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Dyche would be outstanding for them
He gets the best out of what he has
And they need a lot of investment still as they have paid top £ for some brick
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
3 games from now, after the 11 we have had, and weeks we have spent discussing the issues.

Not 3 games from now, the instance issues are recognised, as you seem to want to frame it.




Easier said than done. A few shocking performances and that good will can fade.

As I said yesterday, IMO he has until the crowd turns - once that happens its usually lights out.
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P
Mikey10 said:
Very good Spurs Show just posted today. I’d recommend a listen.

The word that they’d all heard is that the senior players (including Kane) have had enough of the training methods, and Poch’s insistence on following certain daily routines around the training ground, no matter what the circumstances. His strange comments pre-CL Final were apparently the last straw for most. Poch reported as trying to manage his way out of the club but wants to leave by the front door in the summer, and with his relationship with the fans intact.

Could all be gonads, of course, but it is a good listen.

https://play.acast.com/s/the-spurs-show/ee821825-fca0-4a90-bf75-518630853a5f
Click to expand...

Interesting.

I think it is a dereliction by a few myself. If Harry is a part of that then he should hang his head. I somehow don't believe he is, but who knows eh? I still back the manager right now, perhaps it is blindness, but I don't think so. He simply needs the time and support. Whatever these players might say about "methods" and all that, letting in key goals three times in the 44th minute of matches is NOT down to training, it is down to focus, furthermore dropping heinous clangers such as Hugo's. Concentration and focus is a point of professionalism, and if they are professionals then there is no excuse for these repeated brain farts other than their own weaknesses. These training methods have got us to winning positions in most of our games; not being able to hold them is all about focus.
 
thfcsteff said:
P

Interesting.

I think it is a dereliction by a few myself. If Harry is a part of that then he should hang his head. I somehow don't believe he is, but who knows eh? I still back the manager right now, perhaps it is blindness, but I don't think so. He simply needs the time and support. Whatever these players might say about "methods" and all that, letting in key goals three times in the 44th minute of matches is NOT down to training, it is down to focus, furthermore dropping heinous clangers such as Hugo's. Concentration and focus is a point of professionalism, and if they are professionals then there is no excuse for these repeated brain farts other than their own weaknesses. These training methods have got us to winning positions in most of our games; not being able to hold them is all about focus.
Click to expand...

Poch's training methods are the same as Bielsa's, and so far in decades of testing show ability to effect parts of season, lift sides to a point, but has never turned a side into winners. Maybe the players have realized that after 5 years, they aren't getting any better and the only advice their manager can give is run harder ...

Have you never worked for someone who's advice/direction you know from experience simply isn't going to work? this is what the squad is saying right now seemingly, and Spurs fans and pundits are saying well maybe we should get rid of players and get in new ones who haven't figured it out yet, so will just run into a wall again for Poch .. makes no sense.
 
thfcsteff said:
Interesting.

I think it is a dereliction by a few myself. If Harry is a part of that then he should hang his head. I somehow don't believe he is, but who knows eh? I still back the manager right now, perhaps it is blindness, but I don't think so. He simply needs the time and support. Whatever these players might say about "methods" and all that, letting in key goals three times in the 44th minute of matches is NOT down to training, it is down to focus, furthermore dropping heinous clangers such as Hugo's. Concentration and focus is a point of professionalism, and if they are professionals then there is no excuse for these repeated brain farts other than their own weaknesses. These training methods have got us to winning positions in most of our games; not being able to hold them is all about focus.
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And what does focus come back to?

All roads circle back to the manager.

Whether something is his fault, or not, its his responsibility.

I have supported him to date, and continue to do so - but I recognise just how things look as well.

The three game thing is, IMO, probably about right to start seeing some return, or start seeing the crowd turn forcing a decision.

That, and the pragmatic side of - the run past Liverpool being ideal for a new manager.

Youll note I also said it was ideal for Poch if he was able to start pulling performances together over those games.



Raziel said:
Poch's training methods are the same as Bielsa's, and so far in decades of testing show ability to effect parts of season, lift sides to a point, but has never turned a side into winners. Maybe the players have realized that after 5 years, they aren't getting any better and the only advice their manager can give is run harder ...
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I dont think Pochs methods are the same, but he is certainly a student of Biesla. Though if Im not mistaken isnt Guardiola supposed to have been inspired by him too? I guess it comes down to what lessons you take from the big man....

Raziel said:
Have you never worked for someone who's advice/direction you know from experience simply isn't going to work? this is what the squad is saying right now seemingly, and Spurs fans and pundits are saying well maybe we should get rid of players and get in new ones who haven't figured it out yet, so will just run into a wall again for Poch .. makes no sense.
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Agreed!
 
thfcsteff said:
P


Interesting.

I think it is a dereliction by a few myself. If Harry is a part of that then he should hang his head. I somehow don't believe he is, but who knows eh? I still back the manager right now, perhaps it is blindness, but I don't think so. He simply needs the time and support. Whatever these players might say about "methods" and all that, letting in key goals three times in the 44th minute of matches is NOT down to training, it is down to focus, furthermore dropping heinous clangers such as Hugo's. Concentration and focus is a point of professionalism, and if they are professionals then there is no excuse for these repeated brain farts other than their own weaknesses. These training methods have got us to winning positions in most of our games; not being able to hold them is all about focus.
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These same players have had damn good focus for most of his tenure though, so the loss of focus is a massive concern whether you want to blame the manager for it or not it ultimately falls down on him in the end.

Im very much with you in wanting to support him, but if what is said there is true it really is the end and we will only be delaying the inevitable....
 
Raziel said:
Poch's training methods are the same as Bielsa's, and so far in decades of testing show ability to effect parts of season, lift sides to a point, but has never turned a side into winners. Maybe the players have realized that after 5 years, they aren't getting any better and the only advice their manager can give is run harder ...

Have you never worked for someone who's advice/direction you know from experience simply isn't going to work? this is what the squad is saying right now seemingly, and Spurs fans and pundits are saying well maybe we should get rid of players and get in new ones who haven't figured it out yet, so will just run into a wall again for Poch .. makes no sense.
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Or is it just that Poch and Biesla have always been managers of teams who aren't at the top table of resources and therefore are very unlikely to take that final step?
 
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