Levy - End Of Season Letter

[Grassroots]

Now people, do you remember that day when a certain lot won the league at our place? I do, it was f@cking horrible.

Whilst walking out the pub that day if you had told me that in the next ten years we would:

- Finish in the top 6 in 7 of the next 10 seasons
- Win the league cup, beating the goons S/F and Chelsea in the final
- Reach the Q/F of the CL
- Have players as good if not better than Ginola (Berba, Modric, VdV and Bale)
- Have plans for a new stadium on the current site the same size as 'Ashburton Grove'
- The best training facility in the country if not Europe

I would've laughed in your f@cking face.

Yes Levy has taken the **** at times with this summer onwards being his last chance saloon but if you honestly think that if we HAD taken those chances of both Jan 2011 and Jan 2012 and finished 3rd above Arsenal that everything would be all honky dory then think again. Seriously, even the goons would've poured everything into getting their place back, heck, even if it was us that won the league that year (2012) Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project would've just brushed aside with their wealth to put us back in our place and that's before the goons, Liverpool and Utd have outspent us.

We have no real plan?

Levy said, back in 2004, that the club needed a system whereby it didn't matter who was in charge, we needed a recruitment system and environmenmt whereby the players would be good enough not to rely solely on the manager and in having such players managers could walk in and out without having to completely dismantle the team, unless of course they were crap.

Just look at our last 10 league finishes

2004 - 2014: 9th, 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th​​

Comepare that to the previous 10 finishes

1994 - 2004: 7th, 8th, 10th, 14th, 11th, 10th, 12th, 9th, 10th, 14th​​

What's the above called again? Oh yeah that's it MID TABLE! Remember that term which was then so common with us?

This season has been a shambles but f@ck me I've seen this club in much worse! I think we have Daniel Levy to thank for that and whilst he isn't perfect he has us where we expect ourselves to be. I think the only thing I could fault him for so far is the lack of trophies but that would be it. Managers come and go, you want a Wenger or SAF? then fall asleep because the only place you'll find them is in your dreams.

Even if we got rid of Levy, who could do a better job ecpecially with the FFP?

And that Question isn't even a scare tatic!

Spot on good post

the club has made significant progress under levy and that should never be sniffed at
We were average at best before he came in.

 

[NWND]

Brain of Levy, I think Levy is above average. I'd actually go so far as to say he was an outstanding chairman. The growth the club has seen under him has been outstanding. He has SAVED the status of the club as one of the big clubs in England and Europe.

There are so many fallen giants of the European game that were mismanaged and missed the boat and possibly will never catch up again.

England: Leeds, Aston Villa, Everton (and yes their performances on the pitch have been 'relatively' great, but their status as a big, major club has been blown since the 80's as their financial power is that of a mid-table also-ran club), Nottingham Forest, Saudi Sportswashing Machine.
Spain: Deportivo La Coruna, Valencia, Real Betis
Germany: Hamburg, Schalke, Koln
France: Lyon, Marseille, FC Lens, Nantes
Italy: AC Milan, Sampdoria, Internazionale, Lazio, Hellas Verona,

I'm sure I could go on...

The point is that from where we were in the 90's under Sugar, we could EASILY have disappeared in into the abyss of the also-rans with diminishing exposure, financial income, fan base and prestige. We were a shrinking club. There is a book called What's the Story, Morning Glory. It's quite an interesting take on the last years of the Sugar regime, from a fairly influential and active Spurs fan at the time. One of the things he is worried about is that the local parks around Tottenham were "full of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and even West Ham shirts".

To arrest the slide and completely turn it around to the point where we have Gareth Bale on a massive bill-board on Times Square, that when ESPN in America showed their Premiership adverts by painting opposing rival teams on the subway carriages and they chose Arsenal & Tottenham rather than Arsenal & Chelsea like they probably would have 10 years previously. The fact that we can attract the likes of Christian Eriksen and Erik Lamela and Paulinho, whatever you think of them. The fact that we can realistically get someone like Frank De Boer to be manager. I don't think people realise what a massive turnaround in fortunes there has been at the club in actually a relatively short period of time. The training centre and academy are world class. The quality of our youth team is exceptional. The fact that we beat Inter Milan 7-1 and Barcelona 4-1 in the Next Gen series is remarkable. Some of those players like Pritchard, Veljkovic, Bentaleb, Coulhirst, Dombaxe, Fredericks have already made at least the bench in first-team squads. that's remarkable.

I'd say that everyone acknowledges that he has done an amazing job OFF THE PITCH. So people are questioning his ON THE PITCH performance, would that be a fair reflection? Well check this out....

Levy's legacy will be from 2001-now:

ON PITCH PERFORMANCE:
Premiership Era Major Trophies Won Prior to Levy: 1 League Cup
Premiership Era Major Trophies Won Under Levy: 1 League Cup

Trophies are to an extent down to luck so let's move onto things a bit more tangible:

Premiership Era Appearances in Major Finals Prior to Levy: 1
Premiership Era Appearances in Major Finals Under Levy: 3

Average Premiership League Finish Prior to Levy: 9.5(th) across 10 league seasons
Average Premiership League Finish Under Levy: 7.3(th) across 13 league seasons

These next two show the definite upwards improvement under Levy (i.e. we're still getting better):
Average Premiership League Finish Under Levy (last 10 league seasons): 6.2(th) across 10 league seasons
Average Premiership League Finish Under Levy (last 5 league seasons): 4.8(th) across 5 league seasons

Premiership Era Qualification for the European Cup/Champions League Prior to Levy: 0
Premiership Era Qualification for the European Cup/Champions League Under Levy: 1

Premiership Era Qualification for the UEFA Cup/Europa League Prior to Levy: 1
Premiership Era Qualification for the UEFA Cup/Europa League Under Levy: 6

Again to show the continuous improvement under Levy, we have failed to qualify for European competition through league finish just ONCE in the last 8 seasons. European football is now just a given at THFC under Levy.

Premiership Era Average Goal Difference Prior to Levy: -1.2 across 10 seasons
Premiership Era Average Goal Difference Under Levy: +6.8 across 13 seasons

Premiership Era Average Top Scorer Goals Scored Prior to Levy: 15.5 across 10 seasons
Premiership Era Average Top Scorer Goals Scored Under Levy: 18.5 across 13 seasons

 

[NWND]

I could have narrowed the 'under Levy' performance to the last 10 and last 5 years for each category (I only did it for Premiership finishes) and all of them would show we are STILL IMPROVING under Levy. Not standing still, not going backwards, we are IMPROVING constantly under his stewardship.

 

[NWND]

Spot on good post

the club has made significant progress under levy and that should never be sniffed at
We were average at best before he came in.

Plus analysis of results and statistics for total Levy era (2001-now), then last 10 years, then last 5 years, show continuous improvement and that we are getting better.

 

[Grassroots]

Plus analysis of results and statistics for total Levy era (2001-now), then last 10 years, then last 5 years, show continuous improvement and that we are getting better.

Without doubt mate
Still its amazing how utter **** can smell better when you have been no where near it for 15 yrs

 

[braineclipse]

I'm gonna need you to clarify or expand, because I don't see why the 'making sense at the time' appointments means he is anymore than average when they fail, and I don't understand why my conclusion doesn't follow from my questioning.

My point was:

1. Hiring managers is a high variance activity. As illustrated by the guesstimated 50% hit rate.
2. With high variance and a small sample size looking only the outcome is extremely results oriented and not a to me valid approach for judging this kind of decision.
3. Thus other factors should be looked at, and as far as possible one should try to avoid hindsight bias. "Making sense at the time" is thus a valid argument for me.

Thus for me it also doesn't follow that "he's average too" based on others also failing and some of his non-successes being explained as hirings that made sense at the time. In short there are many other explanations available.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

My point was:

1. Hiring managers is a high variance activity. As illustrated by the guesstimated 50% hit rate.
2. With high variance and a small sample size looking only the outcome is extremely results oriented and not a to me valid approach for judging this kind of decision.
3. Thus other factors should be looked at, and as far as possible one should try to avoid hindsight bias. "Making sense at the time" is thus a valid argument for me.

Thus for me it also doesn't follow that "he's average too" based on others also failing and some of his non-successes being explained as hirings that made sense at the time. In short there are many other explanations available.

It's results oriented because football is a results business. At the end of the day the club exists to have 3 more points added to their tally on Saturday afternoon. It's not hindsight bias, we can simply see whether or not something worked based on the results because it is a results business.

Making sense at the time is to me a cop out. Because you can say it about absolutely anyone. An argument can be made that any manager made sense at the time. So who has the ultimate say in what made sense? Moyes to United made sense at the time, but he was a spectacular failure. Di Canio to Sunderland made sense at the time. Pepe Mel to West Brom made sense at the time. It's just an excuse to praise Levy in spite of his failures. If we don't call a spade a spade, a failure for what it is, we aren't giving balanced criticism. We're calling Levy a fantastic / outstanding / excellent chairman despite getting the most major of decisions wrong almost half the time.

Can we do the same for managers? Can I say Jol was an excellent manager for us? I mean, he had a great first half a season when he took over, and a pretty special first full season in charge considering where we were coming from. Then he had an average next season and a poor start to the next. All in all it evens out to be pretty average. Can I call him fantastic or outstanding? If so, what words do we use for the likes of Fergie or Van Gaal that have delivered consistent success and often times not with the strongest squads. Do you see what I mean? If we are giving the 'outstanding / excellent' praise to someone that's performed averagely, what does that make the people that truly are? We have no words to describe them.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Again, if he's that average, people who are doing a better job should be fairly simple to name, in some numbers, as average would indicate middle of the pack. Who is the 8 or so better chairmen in England, the 25 or so in major European leagues?

I think you are confusing "could do better" with average, and it is not the sane thing.

I'm not, I'm simply saying that to be called excellent or outstanding he needs to be getting things right all the time. It's hard criteria to hit but that's why those words mean a lot. There's probably very few truly excellent or outstanding chairmen in the world, but there seems like there's this cult of personality around Levy where he gets put on this pedal stool and his failures are explained away very easily, with arguments like it 'making sense at the time' which to me I just find a total cop out. Doesn't matter how that decision ultimately impacts on results, which is why the club exists, because it made sense at the time! It's nonsense.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

NWND, I don't deny what Levy has done, I simply think he's being called outstanding there because he took over from Sugar, who from a footballing perspective was poor.

 

[Spurmac1974]

NWND, I don't deny what Levy has done, I simply think he's being called outstanding there because he took over from Sugar, who from a footballing perspective was poor.

But who did improve the stadium and sort the finances out! Never gets any credit for it but not suprising!

 

[indianspur]

since Levy and ENIC came we no longer win anything in a year ending in 1....they broke the cycle. Thanks a bunch

 

[NWND]

NWND, I don't deny what Levy has done, I simply think he's being called outstanding there because he took over from Sugar, who from a footballing perspective was poor.

Levy was starting from an average and shrinking position but as I have undeniably demonstrated we have consistently improved and moved upwards and we are still improving.

Indianspur says it's a results business but I'd struggle to find a club that hasn't had a major billionaire cash injection that can generate such a consistent upward curve in on pitch performances over a period in excess of 10 years as well as a dramatic growth in off the pitch finances, exposure, infrastructure, and capital projects.

 

[braineclipse]

It's results oriented because football is a results business. At the end of the day the club exists to have 3 more points added to their tally on Saturday afternoon. It's not hindsight bias, we can simply see whether or not something worked based on the results because it is a results business.

Making sense at the time is to me a cop out. Because you can say it about absolutely anyone. An argument can be made that any manager made sense at the time. So who has the ultimate say in what made sense? Moyes to United made sense at the time, but he was a spectacular failure. Di Canio to Sunderland made sense at the time. Pepe Mel to West Brom made sense at the time. It's just an excuse to praise Levy in spite of his failures. If we don't call a spade a spade, a failure for what it is, we aren't giving balanced criticism. We're calling Levy a fantastic / outstanding / excellent chairman despite getting the most major of decisions wrong almost half the time.

Can we do the same for managers? Can I say Jol was an excellent manager for us? I mean, he had a great first half a season when he took over, and a pretty special first full season in charge considering where we were coming from. Then he had an average next season and a poor start to the next. All in all it evens out to be pretty average. Can I call him fantastic or outstanding? If so, what words do we use for the likes of Fergie or Van Gaal that have delivered consistent success and often times not with the strongest squads. Do you see what I mean? If we are giving the 'outstanding / excellent' praise to someone that's performed averagely, what does that make the people that truly are? We have no words to describe them.

Do you think it's a good idea to evaluate someone's performance in a high variance, low sample size environment purely based on results then? I really don't.

Moyes to United and Di Canio to Sunderland did not make sense at the time to me. I didn't know anything about Pepe Mel so I can't comment on that one, but to me it's not something that I always say. It's possibly something that can always be said, but that doesn't invalidate the statement to me. It just means that it has to be supported.

I do not think Levy has performed averagely, I thought that was clear too.

 

[billyiddo]

Well you could argue the exact same point for the following season in which Bale transformed into a superstar and the best player in the league, but we still only managed 5th place.

well that stance would only increase the argument for Levy providing the manager with a squad capable of top 4 then, doesn't it?

but, as ive said a thousand times before - i didn't ever feel that we were good enough, either on paper or on the field, last season for top 4. it was close though tbf.

 

[milo]

since Levy and ENIC came we no longer win anything in a year ending in 1....they broke the cycle. Thanks a bunch

I think that has more to do with us missing out on joining the Champions League gravy train under Sugar and playing catch up ever since.

 

[indianspur]

I think that has more to do with us missing out on joining the Champions League gravy train under Sugar and playing catch up ever since.

or that Levy sacked Graham on the eve of the 2001 semi against Arsanal.Bad decision imo. Replacing winner Graham with nice guy fans favourite Hoddle at that time was wrong...Graham would have loved to have got one over Arsanal, and with Liverpool in the final, a team Graham always got the better of, we had a great chance of lifting the cup. 2001 broke the cycle. If Levy wanted to make the change he should have done it at the end of the season.

 

[NWND]

or that Levy sacked Graham on the eve of the 2001 semi against Arsanal.Bad decision imo. Replacing winner Graham with nice guy fans favourite Hoddle at that time was wrong...Graham would have loved to have got one over Arsanal, and with Liverpool in the final, a team Graham always got the better of, we had a great chance of lifting the cup. 2001 broke the cycle. If Levy wanted to make the change he should have done it at the end of the season.

Oh right, so on taking over the club, and bearing in mind Graham got sacked from Arsenal for taking bungs from agents, ENIC find a parcel full of money in Graham's office and when asked about it he said it was fines taken off players that he hadn't decided what to do with yet - ENIC should just let that go, because we MIGHT beat two teams much better than us to win a cup?

I think you're forgetting the REASON Graham was sacked in all of this, which had nothing to do at the time with his on pitch performance.

 

[Grassroots]

Agree nwnd
As I have already maintained every manager sacked by levy needed to go for one reason or another

And I really believe avb quit or left levy no choice

 

[indianspur]

Oh right, so on taking over the club, and bearing in mind Graham got sacked from Arsenal for taking bungs from agents, ENIC find a parcel full of money in Graham's office and when asked about it he said it was fines taken off players that he hadn't decided what to do with yet - ENIC should just let that go, because we MIGHT beat two teams much better than us to win a cup?

I think you're forgetting the REASON Graham was sacked in all of this, which had nothing to do at the time with his on pitch performance.

oh please dont make me laugh :lol:..........

 

[Chachaboom]

Does anyone have any idea just what it was Levy and AVB fell out over? I know Levy disagreed with his treatment of Adebayor but was there more to it than that.