Yeah you're right. I'm sure if you asked all the full backs in the PL they'd all say how easy he is to mark and he does sod all....
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Lennon's back baby!
- Thread starter Park Lane James
- Start date
Yeah you're right. I'm sure if you asked all the full backs in the PL they'd all say how easy he is to mark and he does sod all....
thfcsteff
George Hunt
That game shows just how weird football can be. 11 v 11? I think we win 2 or 3-1. We were dominant, they had no plan B, did not seem able to get into the game at all...man off, they win 5-2, everyone off to the races about how great they were, we all knew it was paper over the cracks...
ShelfLife
Clive Wilson
Yep, massive shame that Ade had to go and do something so stupid - he was having a stormer of a game as well. We may well have ****ed it up anyway of course, but the way things were going in the opening period of the game we were on track to give them a real going over.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
There seem to be quite a few that are critical of Lennon and his abilities, or maybe it's just a vocal minority thing again.
There were some stats floating around this summer comparing different (English I think) wingers in the PL showing that Lennon was pretty much the business. I couldn't find that particular image I had in mind, but I found a different one:
That was from the following article arguing that Lennon possibly should have been in the England squad: http://www.eplindex.com/14760/aaron-lennon-england-squad-opta-stats.html There is another table there showing some of Lennon's defensive work. To me it's worth mentioning that he plays a somewhat deeper role than Walcott, Chamberlain and Johnson with more defensive responsibilities, to beat them in most of the important stats still goes some ways towards showing what he does bring to the team.
I think some of those people complaining that Lennon isn't doing enough for us going forward are comparing him to absolute world class players and have unrealistic expectations.
There were some stats floating around this summer comparing different (English I think) wingers in the PL showing that Lennon was pretty much the business. I couldn't find that particular image I had in mind, but I found a different one:
That was from the following article arguing that Lennon possibly should have been in the England squad: http://www.eplindex.com/14760/aaron-lennon-england-squad-opta-stats.html There is another table there showing some of Lennon's defensive work. To me it's worth mentioning that he plays a somewhat deeper role than Walcott, Chamberlain and Johnson with more defensive responsibilities, to beat them in most of the important stats still goes some ways towards showing what he does bring to the team.
I think some of those people complaining that Lennon isn't doing enough for us going forward are comparing him to absolute world class players and have unrealistic expectations.
There seem to be quite a few that are critical of Lennon and his abilities, or maybe it's just a vocal minority thing again.
There were some stats floating around this summer comparing different (English I think) wingers in the PL showing that Lennon was pretty much the business. I couldn't find that particular image I had in mind, but I found a different one:
That was from the following article arguing that Lennon possibly should have been in the England squad: http://www.eplindex.com/14760/aaron-lennon-england-squad-opta-stats.html There is another table there showing some of Lennon's defensive work. To me it's worth mentioning that he plays a somewhat deeper role than Walcott, Chamberlain and Johnson with more defensive responsibilities, to beat them in most of the important stats still goes some ways towards showing what he does bring to the team.
I think some of those people complaining that Lennon isn't doing enough for us going forward are comparing him to absolute world class players and have unrealistic expectations.
i.e Comparing him to Bale....
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Like I said in my post...
Point being that Lennon still creates more chances than Walcott.
Walcott has far greater responsibility in scoring goals (which he has done well this season) than creating chances - due to his deployment on the field (their stats are largely equal in that department by the way so he's hardly falling behind). Walcott also has 7 assists this season.
It's similar to knocking Defoe's low tackle rate compared to Sandro - he shouldn't be compared to right wingers
It's similar to knocking Defoe's low tackle rate compared to Sandro - he shouldn't be compared to right wingers
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DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Arcey once in a while you come out with a post that contains some common sense... This post is it. Well done dude.
Totally agree with you
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
My thinking is that being deployed further up field should make it easier for him to create chances.
Mine generally isn't because he's operating primarily as a forward (his best position, imv - never a right winger due to his severe defensive limitaions). Chances are a bonus (Berbatov for example) - but the bread a butter should be output (Defoe) - oversimplified granted, but for argument's sake (I'd take the former any day!). And those stats are greatly biased towards wide midfielders.
At the end of the day - he shouldn't be included in those right winger charts that pop up every 3 months because his position and game objectives are completely different.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Not entirely true. My viewpoint is a winger in creating chances is only as effective as the strikers he has to target. Its akin to a great pass only being possible if the movement is there.
If you're playing 442 and you got Lennon and Bale on the wings with two munchkins up front the chances are they won't be creating much.
That's exactly where these type of stats generally fall flat - having 2 great wingers could hamper their 'numbers' significantly should their aiming targets comprise of Carlton Cole and Louis Saha as opposed to Edinson Cavani and Radamel Falcao.
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DHSF
Les Ferdinand
That's why stats aren't as reliable as some think. I think we just got Statto and Zin fired no?
parklane1
Tony Galvin
To a extent i do agree, stats are good but they do not always tell the whole story.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Would surely not affect chances created too much, just the assists that the winger gets.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
The wide forwards (or whatever you want to call them) in a 4-3-3 are not poachers and their responsibility is much wider than just goalscoring.
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't quite see how that opposes anything I've said, or invalidates the stats I posted.
My point with the stats is that a comparison on how many chances players create can be helpful at least as a piece of information about what a player contributes going forward. At least as valid as information as one person saying "he doesn't do enough going forward" for example.
The question many have raised is - 'what does he have to be going forward'?
The anwer to which is - certainly not the same as Lennon or the other out-and-out wingers in that little graph - hence the lack of objectivity
Walcott is a very good wide forward and an average right winger. Lennon is a very good right winger but not a sharp in front of goal (which one could argue would be a bonus not a prerequisite in his primary position)
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