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Knee jerk thread,

i dont have any proof but the signs aren't good are they? not even in matchday squad for yesterdays game

I'd rather not jump to any conclusions. Nor would I leave it said as a matter of fact. That's how rumours are spread.

This is not directed to you, but in general, I have a sneaky feeling the 'AVB out' phalanx are the Harry lovers from last season and are kind of smarting that were sitting in 4th when that simply should not be happening with AVB in charge.
 
I'd rather not jump to any conclusions. Nor would I leave it said as a matter of fact. That's how rumours are spread.

This is not directed to you, but in general, I have a sneaky feeling the 'AVB out' phalanx are the Harry lovers from last season and are kind of smarting that were sitting in 4th when that simply should not be happening with AVB in charge.

I didn't agree with the decision to replace the manager with AVB, but he's winning me over. As long as we are winning and playing decent (ish) football then that's all I'm concerned with.
 
I didn't agree with the decision to replace the manager with AVB, but he's winning me over. As long as we are winning and playing decent (ish) football then that's all I'm concerned with.

But if he doesnt have us playing great football for the full 90 mins, then there is hell to pay.
 
Of course not, but every team can improve in certain areas, even Barcelona! We can get even better if we sort some of these issues out.

But we havent even fielded our strongest 11 this season yet. We have had so many injury problems and changes of personel that it must be really difficult to instil the things AVB wants to. Sitting in 4th right now... the man is doing a tremendous job so far.
 
I don't think that's the worst trait for a manager.

Whilst for many people it can be debilitating, for others it is the thing that drives them to achieve greatness - Einstein, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Darwin, dingdongens, Kubrick etc.

I think AVB is definitely in the Wenger/Hoddle style of management, and that's something I'm quite comfortable with, if we allow him to surround himself with players who get and buy-into him.


=D>
 
This is not directed to you, but in general, I have a sneaky feeling the 'AVB out' phalanx are the Harry lovers from last season and are kind of smarting that were sitting in 4th when that simply should not be happening with AVB in charge.


i have no doubt that is exactly what is happening with some fans, there is one that sits a few rows in front of me and he would love to see AVB out and Redknapp back.We are 4th in the Lge, we have missed Kaboul and Parker all season, lost Ekotto and Dembele, Naughton has been out for a few games, Ade has struggled to get fit yet we are still in 4th.

Knee jerk is the right title for those who moan and bitch all the time.
 
I really didn't want AVB but i like him more then i ever thought i would. He's done quite a few things that has helped me take to him more and with a few more tweaks i'm quietly confident.

That being said we need 1 or 2 signings come Jan.

I'm exactly the same, was unsure at first and those first two home games didn't fill me with confidence. Have to say though that my opinion has changed and I'm fully behind avb.
 
I was at the game yesterday and it amazing how different it all seems live then on tv. i was quite close to avb and was watching him. he sat for about the first five mins but after that was on his feet continually shouting instructions. i saw him pull hudd to one side at one point and give him specific instructions. he was also getting frustrated with certain things that went wrong. however, first half we played ok and there were a couple of good moments. especially down the wings.

the livermore substitution was strange but it was obvious what he was trying to do. he was trying to close the game out and livermore was supposed to break up the play. unfortunately for livermore he didnt do a very good job! scott parker will be a far better option when fit.

our big problem at the moment is the fall out with adebayor and basically having no strikers. when it was dempsey up top with siggurdson behind it was desperate stuff. if we actually start a game like that we will not win.

One of the most obvious things which people generally don't seem to have recognised, is that due to not having Ade as an option, closing out that match became very very tough. AVB's entire closing down philosophy depends on being able to do so fro the front, so with Defoe off and no Ade, it left Dempsey trying to be that man when it isn't his game. Livermore was not pretty but he DID break up play, committing several small, niggly fouls which allowed us to regroup. I don't disagree that Parker would've been excellent in this situation, but the same problem would've remained, NO outlet forward and NO possessive midfielder who could pick up and keep the ball.

Thus I agree wholeheartedly with your second point. As for the Defoe-bashers, you should IMHO start directing your ire at a player who clearly, clearly does not wish to put a shift in right now. JD works his gonads off every game.
 
I'd rather not jump to any conclusions. Nor would I leave it said as a matter of fact. That's how rumours are spread.

This is not directed to you, but in general, I have a sneaky feeling the 'AVB out' phalanx are the Harry lovers from last season and are kind of smarting that were sitting in 4th when that simply should not be happening with AVB in charge.

Unfortunately mate the rumours have spread for a reason...there is smoke and fire. I hope he sorts his head out. Personally, I think anyone who would even remotely blame AVB for any problems needs their head examined.
 
i have no doubt that is exactly what is happening with some fans, there is one that sits a few rows in front of me and he would love to see AVB out and Redknapp back.We are 4th in the Lge, we have missed Kaboul and Parker all season, lost Ekotto and Dembele, Naughton has been out for a few games, Ade has struggled to get fit yet we are still in 4th.

Knee jerk is the right title for those who moan and bitch all the time.

Time and time again we have to see 'his' name creep up, yet if we discuss the hypothetical disaster such a decision would bring, we become people who don't appreciate what he did for our club. I think those people need to sit back, have a cuppa, and start thinking about what he didn't do for our club.
 
I agree and I believe AVB is dedicated to this cause.

That is clear to see as AVB and Freund are on the touchline encouraging players even when we are winning and geeing them on. Redknapp sat bemused puffing out his cheeks when we turned a 3 goal advantage into a 3-2 deficit.
 
That is clear to see as AVB and Freund are on the touchline encouraging players even when we are winning and geeing them on. Redknapp sat bemused puffing out his cheeks when we turned a 3 goal advantage into a 3-2 deficit.

Blimey. We were worse than I thought............:-k:lol:
 
Due to not having Ade as an option, closing out that match became very very tough. AVB's entire closing down philosophy depends on being able to do so fro the front, so with Defoe off and no Ade, it left Dempsey trying to be that man when it isn't his game. Livermore was not pretty but he DID break up play, committing several small, niggly fouls which allowed us to regroup. I don't disagree that Parker would've been excellent in this situation, but the same problem would've remained, NO outlet forward and NO possessive midfielder who could pick up and keep the ball.

As for the Defoe-bashers, you should IMHO start directing your ire at a player who clearly, clearly does not wish to put a shift in right now. JD works his gonads off every game.

At the time those fouls were frustrating but looking back they were all near the centre circle and involved all their defenders trudging up for the inevitable punt into the area which despite all the comments on here we dealt with very easilly and wasted a bit of time.
I could understand criticism of Jake if all our other midfielders were dazzling but they weren't. AVB got it right. Not pretty but right.
But I am looking forward to pretty.
 
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The thing with AVB is...whilst results have been generally good, his personal performances have not been. Time after time he makes clearly the wrong tactical decisions and doesn't spot things that are blatantly wrong with what he's trying to do. I know there have been a lot of changes at the club over the last few months, so I wouldn't expect the players to have clicked together as fluidly as they might end up doing. But what I do expect, even if the results don't come immediately, is sensible, methodical tactics from the manager, and my frustrations with AVB is that we don't see that from him. Every game we have dropped points in this season except for perhaps Saudi Sportswashing Machine, was IMO largely down to poor decisions he made. I can forgive dropping points if you are beaten by a clearly better team, if you are screwed over by the referee, or if you're just unlucky on the day, but if you are making decisions that leave the fans going "Whaaaat thhhheeee fuuuuuckkk????" then that's not acceptable. Every manager does it from time to time, but doing it several times in the opening two months of the season is not good enough. And the thing is...it's not like he doesn't have a history of utterly ridiculous tactical mistakes even before he joined us. Just ask any Chelsea fan who watched him play Bosingwa at left-back, even when Ashley Cole was available for a big game, or when he persisted with the high defensive line when it was obvious to everyone quite early on that his defenders didn't have the pace for it.

Yes, we're in the top 4. But we were in the top 4 after 9 games in the 02/03 season, with only one point less than we have now. Guess what...we finished 10th. It's still very early days. If we finish in the top 4, then fine, that's a big achievement for AVB considering we have lost Modric, Van Der Vaart and King since last season. But the fact that we're 4th now isn't good enough to get me off his back just yet when he's making the same mistakes over and over again. Gallas has been poor on many occasions this season, he should not be starting ahead of Dawson. Livermore and Sandro together is far too defensive a partnership and invites unnecessary pressure onto us. Goalkeeper rotation is not a good thing. Dempsey is too slow to play on the wing in a system like we play. We will only see the best of Sigurdsson playing behind Adebayor in the hole. Townsend has looked sharp and dangerous when he's got game time, AVB has given him precious little of it. He also has a tendency to wait far far too long in games to make his substitutions when it's obvious to everyone else in the ground who needs to come on and for who.

Have our results been all that good anyway? We've beaten United away, that was excellent. But nobody can deny that, despite a very strong first half performance, we massively rode our luck in that game considering Ferguson's suicidal tactics in the first half, the referee getting things wrong in our favour for a change, and some wasteful finishing from them keeping their score down to just 2 goals. Even our first and third goals had huge amounts of luck about them. Fine, we were unlucky not to beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine so it's swings and roundabouts, but the fact is, we were lucky, and this is the only game we've won all season against a team outside the bottom 4. We have not yet scored more than 3 in a game, we have not won a game by more than 2 goals. And if you compare this year's results with last season's, we have fewer points after the same number of games and if you compare the corresponding fixtures swapping Reading and Southampton for Blackburn and Bolton, we are the same. Now last season was an outstanding one for us in terms of league results so if we can maintain that over the course of the season then it'll be a big achievement for AVB again...but the concern for me is, we've only been the better team in both halves of a game in a handful of games so far, by my count - Villa, Carlisle, Lazio and maybe Saudi Sportswashing Machine - so I don't see why we should expect us to maintain the level of results playing like this that we did last season when we were often obliterating teams when things were going well, and we used to usually play well even in the games we didn't win.

Those of you who only see the position in the league table and go "WE'RE 4TH! STOP COMPLAINING!" are the ones who reality will slap hardest in the face the next time we drop points. And judging by what I've seen from AVB, we will before long. Now, if he can maintain the top 4 standard over the entire season, then I will confess he's smarter than me and sees things that I don't see. But based on what I HAVE seen from him, I have really not been impressed and I do not expect us to be in the top 4 come the end of the season.
 
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that is a ridiculously over harsh view on AVB's performance so far this season and doesn't give anywhere near enough credit to the things he has done well imo

And if you compare this year's results with last season's, we have fewer points after the same number of games and if you compare the corresponding fixtures swapping Reading and Southampton for Blackburn and Bolton, we are the same

so what's the problem ? :~

a new manager/new team etc etc and we are getting the same results as we were when we had a settled side and manager with King VdV and Modric in the team.

reading too much in to our performances and looking for any sign of something to moan about despite it being early in to his time here without using any perspective sadly is something a lot of people seem to be doing a lot of on here

it will take time to get his ideas fully across to the players, it will take time to adjust to losing our 3 most influential players, it will take time for the new players (signings and young players promoted to first team squad) to gel with each other. making the kind of deep criticisms that you detail in you post will only be relevant if the same can be said at the end of the season - right now it's to be expected that we are struggling to adapt to all the changes that have taken place and have an inconsistent style to our play.

AVB hasn't been perfect, i don't think anyone is suggesting he has, im concerned with some of the things you mention but you have to give it more than a quarter of a season before you start picking it all apart - he has been severely limited as to the changes he can make in a game by our injury list, we have a new style of playing, i expect him to stick with it despite the hiccups as the players will not come accustomed it if you keep changing things every game as it 'isn't working'
 
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