Josh Onomah

[ricky2tricky4city]

I 100% saw him as a player did this season but only in central midfield

I will add that I also said that a loan would be massively beneficial and that Poch should consider it. I was told he would never do that for a player he liked but again he has and I believe he does like Onomah and he has been flexible in his approach (shock/horror)

But as a wide player he is toss... I'd be better

Iirc Poch has said he'd rather keep a player 'in house' to mould and shape them in his methods and tactics.

However with his other comments about Josh 'he needs to show it' perhaps Poch thought he'd done all he could on the training, technical and tactics side (and Josh had absorbed that well)...it was just the application side he was not getting from him

So it's reasonable for Poch to think he'd be better off with a season somewhere with a real competition and target than playing u23s and maybe odd lge cup games (and perhaps out of position as well).

Let's hope Villa is the right place. They will have expectations of him and that is good , that's pricisely what he needs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Iirc Poch has said he'd rather keep a player 'in house' to mould and shape them in his methods and tactics.

However with his other comments about Josh 'he needs to show it' perhaps Poch thought he'd done all he could on the training, technical and tactics side (and Josh had absorbed that well)...it was just the application side he was not getting from him

So it's reasonable for Poch to think he'd be better off with a season somewhere with a real competition and target than playing u23s and maybe odd lge cup games (and perhaps out of position as well).

Let's hope Villa is the right place. They will have expectations of him and that is good , that's pricisely what he needs.

Poch is the perfect modern coach and is still learning

He has clearly changed his stance on loans if he believes they will benefit a player

He would be a fool to not adapt his practices as every player is different and Poch ain't no fool

 

[milo]

I looks like you read the comments wrong @AdamB - none of the posters you quoted, that have responded, thought that Onomah should be a "first choice option" this season.

You read them very differently to me then!

Let's ask them.

Think I've explained my thinking earlier, 5th choice CM for me, but with bags of potential in that position in the games I've seen him play. I think the loan is good though as gametime for us barring injury was going to be very limited.

Squad, definitely. Behind the 4 of Wanyama, Dembele, Dier and Winks until proven to be better.

Still would have been very happy for the club to spend quite a lot of money to sign him if he wasn't already here.

4/5th

Behind dembele and wunks for that role

But for me he was by far and away the best player we had at the World Cup. It was men vs boys with him. He was an absolute beast in the mousse mould

 

[AdamB]

I looks like you read the comments wrong @AdamB - none of the posters you quoted, that have responded, thought that Onomah should be a "first choice option" this season.

Hey - I dont really have the desire to wade back to the conversation which we had a few days ago to see how this came up or debate why you particularly focused on those three words out of the few exchanges we had, but on the general point, I don't see that he would have necessarily been used at all in CM this year. Its obviously completely hypothetical about what would have happened had he not been on loan but based on what we saw last season, if we'd had a situation this year where, say, Dembele, Winks and Dier were all out injured, Barkley hadnt joined and we were just down to Wanyama as our one available CM, I'm still not sure that Onomah would have started in CM. Poch played 4-1-4-1 for a couple games last year so that might have been used instead, and he also dropped Eriksen into CM a couple times when we were chasing games. Dele being played deeper would have been another option and if Barkley arrives, that will be another player ahead of him for CM minutes. None of us see Onomah in training but based on what I saw last year, I wouldn't have played him CM and its telling that Poch didnt ever bring him on in CM last year either, even at the end of games which we were comfortably winning or even in our couple League Cup games. Whether Poch's view changed over the summer as a result of the England U20 success or his general development, only one person knows. He's obviously taken the view that he can do without him this year.

JO seems to have started his loan at Villa well which is great and hopefully he'll come back more first-team ready next year. I'm not the only one here who doubts whether he'll make it but he does seem to split opinion at the moment, not quite at Aaron Lennon levels, but others have posted on here about their doubts about him based on what he's shown so far. Lets see where he gets to by this time next year having hopefully played a lot in CM and how he stacks up against our other options then. As with all young players, its getting bloody hard to come from the youth team and become a first team regular and unless you have pretty much the complete package, you're not going to make it at Spurs as Townsend, Mason, Livermore et al have found out. My money is him on being in that list rather than the shorter Kane/Winks list but we'll find out in a couple years. Happy to be proven wrong as it would save us £30m-£50m from signing someone!

 

[milo]

Hey - I dont really have the desire to wade back to the conversation which we had a few days ago to see how this came up or debate why you particularly focused on those three words out of the few exchanges we had, but on the general point, I don't see that he would have necessarily been used at all in CM this year. Its obviously completely hypothetical about what would have happened had he not been on loan but based on what we saw last season, if we'd had a situation this year where, say, Dembele, Winks and Dier were all out injured, Barkley hadnt joined and we were just down to Wanyama as our one available CM, I'm still not sure that Onomah would have started in CM. Poch played 4-1-4-1 for a couple games last year so that might have been used instead, and he also dropped Eriksen into CM a couple times when we were chasing games. Dele being played deeper would have been another option and if Barkley arrives, that will be another player ahead of him for CM minutes. None of us see Onomah in training but based on what I saw last year, I wouldn't have played him CM and its telling that Poch didnt ever bring him on in CM last year either, even at the end of games which we were comfortably winning or even in our couple League Cup games. Whether Poch's view changed over the summer as a result of the England U20 success or his general development, only one person knows. He's obviously taken the view that he can do without him this year.

JO seems to have started his loan at Villa well which is great and hopefully he'll come back more first-team ready next year. I'm not the only one here who doubts whether he'll make it but he does seem to split opinion at the moment, not quite at Aaron Lennon levels, but others have posted on here about their doubts about him based on what he's shown so far. Lets see where he gets to by this time next year having hopefully played a lot in CM and how he stacks up against our other options then. As with all young players, its getting bloody hard to come from the youth team and become a first team regular and unless you have pretty much the complete package, you're not going to make it at Spurs as Townsend, Mason, Livermore et al have found out. My money is him on being in that list rather than the shorter Kane/Winks list but we'll find out in a couple years. Happy to be proven wrong as it would save us £30m-£50m from signing someone!

I think that you are trying to move the conversation on.

This came about because you were criticising other supporters for overeating Onomah, as you saw it. You said that lots of people thought that he he should start in CM this season. When challenged on this you quoted posters not saying this.

I don't care what you think about Onomah. I just wish that you wouldn't misrepresent other people's views in order to try and support your argument.

 

[AdamB]

I think that you are trying to move the conversation on.

This came about because you were criticising other supporters for overeating Onomah, as you saw it. You said that lots of people thought that he he should start in CM this season. When challenged on this you quoted posters not saying this.

I don't care what you think about Onomah. I just wish that you wouldn't misrepresent other people's views in order to try and support your argument.

My precise words (very top of p42) were 'he'd be a genuine first choice option, sort of someone who you could trust to start many PL games in the same way which say Winks has''. As others have confirmed to you above, they would have had him as 4th or 5th choice this season. Winks was either 3rd or 4th choice last season, depending on what Dier's role was. So my comment, and those from others, are not vastly out of line. 4th/5th choice for Onomah this year, compared to 3rd/4th as I stated through using Winks for last season as an example. They really aren't that different and most of the comments which I picked out didn't refer to his position in the pecking order so were open to interpretation. The audit of those comments which you then instigated actually backs up what I said - not a first choice as Winks wasn't, but a back-up.

I'd suggest that your comment in your recent post is over-stating/misrepresenting what I said. Your comment that I was saying that 'lots of people thought that he he should start in CM this season' suggests that I was saying that others wanted him starting games as a genuine first 11 player. I don't believe I've ever said that anyone thinks he should be a first choice player however happy to be corrected and apologise if you can find comments along those lines.

Last point is that to an extent, yes, I was trying to end the conversation. I'm not sure why its needed to run on like this

 

[milo]

My precise words (very top of p42) were 'he'd be a genuine first choice option, sort of someone who you could trust to start many PL games in the same way which say Winks has''. As others have confirmed to you above, they would have had him as 4th or 5th choice this season. Winks was either 3rd or 4th choice last season, depending on what Dier's role was. So my comment, and those from others, are not vastly out of line. 4th/5th choice for Onomah this year, compared to 3rd/4th as I stated through using Winks for last season as an example. They really aren't that different and most of the comments which I picked out didn't refer to his position in the pecking order so were open to interpretation. The audit of those comments which you then instigated actually backs up what I said - not a first choice as Winks wasn't, but a back-up.

I'd suggest that your comment in your recent post is over-stating/misrepresenting what I said. Your comment that I was saying that 'lots of people thought that he he should start in CM this season' suggests that I was saying that others wanted him starting games as a genuine first 11 player. I don't believe I've ever said that anyone thinks he should be a first choice player however happy to be corrected and apologise if you can find comments along those lines.

Last point is that to an extent, yes, I was trying to end the conversation. I'm not sure why its needed to run on like this

Maybe it is down to definition. I'd say that Winks was a squad player last season rather than a first choice option. He only really started when players were injured or in the lesser games. He had a great season but he was definitely a second choice. I'd agree with the others that Onomah may have been able to do the same (but further down the pecking order) this season but am happy that he has gone on loan and will be getting more playing time.

Let's draw a line under this.

 

[AdamB]

am happy that he has gone on loan and will be getting more playing time.

Let's draw a line under this.

Agree on both points

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Taken off after 30 minutes today, can only presume it's an injury.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think that you are trying to move the conversation on.

This came about because you were criticising other supporters for overeating Onomah, as you saw it. You said that lots of people thought that he he should start in CM this season. When challenged on this you quoted posters not saying this.

I don't care what you think about Onomah. I just wish that you wouldn't misrepresent other people's views in order to try and support your argument.

Oh I say.

 

[Rorschach]

Taken off after 30 minutes today, can only presume it's an injury.

Head injury

 

[AdamB]

Happy to post that, after sittings through most of the Bristol City-Villa game, Onomah just scored from 30 yards!

The big caveat to that is that it took a massive deflection which caused it to loop up and dip over the keeper....

Back to the game...

 

[afsoc4life]

Onomah scored ...

 

[Bullet]

Happy to post that, after sittings through most of the Bristol City-Villa game, Onomah just scored from 30 yards!

The big caveat to that is that it took a massive deflection which caused it to loop up and dip over the keeper....

Back to the game...

True. It clearly took a huge deflection and the commentator goes "THAT IS BRILLIANT" and the co-commentator is going "Erm, he put his foot through it and it took a huge deflection"

Overall Onomah looks fine, decent, OK, yeah, OK, yeah... not 9/10, not 6/10, definitely 7 or 8 out of 10


Nice to see Big JT slumming it down here and giving away a freekick that led to the goal. What a twit. This is like a graveyard for ex Prem, ex Hull types... Chris Samba, Glenn Whelan, John Terry, El Mahammady, Steve Bruce, Calderwood, Clemence

 

[Bullet]

Good stuff from Onomah overall, he did well as the game wore on. He did some nice things and was thinking brightly e.g. good throughballs, good movement for a quick freekick, 8/10 for me, one of the better players on the park

 

[AdamB]

True. It clearly took a huge deflection and the commentator goes "THAT IS BRILLIANT" and the co-commentator is going "Erm, he put his foot through it and it took a huge deflection"

Overall Onomah looks fine, decent, OK, yeah, OK, yeah... not 9/10, not 6/10, definitely 7 or 8 out of 10


Nice to see Big JT slumming it down here and giving away a freekick that led to the goal. What a twit. This is like a graveyard for ex Prem, ex Hull types... Chris Samba, Glenn Whelan, John Terry, El Mahammady, Steve Bruce, Calderwood, Clemence

Yep, he's looked better in this game than in any of his Spurs appearances, though I guess he's had the whole game, its also at a lower level and/or maybe the England stint has helped him. The upsides compared to his Spurs performances last year are that he's generally come alive much more when the ball has come to him and his first touch has been excellent which has meant that he's had more time on the ball than others when he's had it. Its also meant that he's been a lot more involved than when he's come on for Spurs, though he's been playing deeper than he has for Spurs so you could argue that that is the reason...or maybe its because its the championship rather than PL or maybe he's more confident now due to the England stuff. I can understand why Vila fans on their forums have said that he's the only one in their squad with any footballing ability (though Hourihane looks ok and the young guy up top looks like a Darren Bent type CF). He puts his foot on the ball more than others in their team which makes him stand out

On the negative side, without the ball he has still sauntered around - I haven't seen him really work his nuts off to close the opposition down which I'd really like to see from him if he is going to be a CM in the PL. Even Modric who was 5 foot 5 and about 6 stone worked to close others down. Similarly, when he doesnt have the ball but Villa do, he doesnt really run to get into space - maybe thats because he's confident that his position/space is perfect as it is, but he generally just walks or does a light jog.

Given its game 5 or 6 though its promising and, regardless of whether he is good enough for Spurs or not, at least he's playing enough at Villa so that there are no arguments about whether he's had the chance or not. If he plays 40 games for Villa this year, there should be a great view on what his future holds. Its a tough ask getting into the Spurs squad, but he's better off at Villa this year, than getting splinters in his arse at Spurs. Regardless of where he ends up, I think he needs to do some weights and get a bit more upper body strength - the Mouse has that and Onomah should model himself on him. It feels that he has the ability, but it will come down to whether he wants it

 

[r-u-s-x]

They love him... Last loan that did well at villa turned out alright

 

[milo]

Nice to see Big JT slumming it down here and giving away a freekick that led to the goal. What a twit. This is like a graveyard for ex Prem, ex Hull types... Chris Samba, Glenn Whelan, John Terry, El Mahammady, Steve Bruce, Calderwood, Clemence

It's beyond me why he didn't go to the States and pretend that he is still a decent player whilst soaking in the sun.

 

[milo]

On the negative side, without the ball he has still sauntered around - I haven't seen him really work his nuts off to close the opposition down

The VIlla fans seem to disagree with you on that. I have seen a few positive comments about his work rate and the Guardian picked up on him pulling up Agbonlahor for not closing down from the front.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

[AdamB]

It's beyond me why he didn't go to the States and pretend that he is still a decent player whilst soaking in the sun.

Might be because Villa used say £7.5m (150k p.w.) of their £50m parachute payment to sign him? I can believe that Steve Bruce, as a CB, offered that to him