Josh Onomah

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm guessing the contrast in fitness, motivation, commitment and belief at Villa compared to what he's used to under Poch has come as quite a shock. My fear is that one whole season in that environment may well affect his progress adversely. Either that or it'll be the making of him.

Hopefully Poch continues to stay in touch with him and says 'don't let your head drop'. If Josh has a season of being a 20 year old kid telling a bunch of season pros what to do, as you say it could be the making of him.

 

[milo]

You read them very differently to me then!

Let's ask them.

@Gazza Dazzla @Bedfordspurs @braineclipse @Gutter Boy

Before he went out on loan. Did you see Onomah as a squad or first choice option in central midfield for us this season?

@AdamB has pulled out the quotes below as evidence of the latter.

- Gazza Dazzla: (p27): "Trying not to get too carried away but I was so impressed/surprised with him in center mid, he has to play here for us next season rather than AM. On that performance we genuinely have 5 deep center mids to choose from next year now."
- Bedford Spurs (p27 respinding to Gazza Dazzla's post above): "I think that's all fair though"
- eltrev (p32): "I hope to see him get some opportunities in central midfield this season"
- braineclipse (p32): "Seems more head up than Dembele. Not as impressive physically at this point at least. Bit Carrick-esque, but more drive with the ball. If he wasn't already with us I would have been delighted if we signed him for £15-20m."
- GB: (p32): "I agree - sort of 5th choice CM (behind Wanyama, Dier, Dembele and Winks) perhaps starting in cups + lots of 20 minute cameos in the league at AM"

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Think I've explained my thinking earlier, 5th choice CM for me, but with bags of potential in that position in the games I've seen him play. I think the loan is good though as gametime for us barring injury was going to be very limited.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think Onomah has to prove his self belief.

I always felt he has the ability, but not the confidence to impose himself. In his appearances for us he has been quite passive, quiet, and at times hiding from getting too involved.

It is obvious he has skill, vision, technique and the physical attributes - but does he have that bloody mindedness to really push and perform?

I think it is a valid doubt, and it is something of a deal breaker for him - unless he can push on he will simply fade out of the squad and be sold.

I also think this is where Pochettinos view is of him - this was a telling line about the loan:
"He can play as an 8, a 6, a 7 or 10 or 11, I think that is not the problem. He needs to prove himself that he can play"

So for me, Onomah isnt a starter. And isnt really a squad player either at this point. I suspect he was going to be on the way out, but his impressive tournament this summer has earned him a reprieve. He is on the tipping point, and this loan will probably decide how it goes.

Either in the next summer window we sell him or integrate him into the squad fully.

And so far I am delighted to see he has impressed at Villa. Despite them being poor its still a big club, a big crowd, high expectation - its a tough place to go and play for him.

 

[AdamB]

I think Onomah has to prove his self belief.

I always felt he has the ability, but not the confidence to impose himself. In his appearances for us he has been quite passive, quiet, and at times hiding from getting too involved.

It is obvious he has skill, vision, technique and the physical attributes - but does he have that bloody mindedness to really push and perform?

I think it is a valid doubt, and it is something of a deal breaker for him - unless he can push on he will simply fade out of the squad and be sold.

I also think this is where Pochettinos view is of him - this was a telling line about the loan:
"He can play as an 8, a 6, a 7 or 10 or 11, I think that is not the problem. He needs to prove himself that he can play"

So for me, Onomah isnt a starter. And isnt really a squad player either at this point. I suspect he was going to be on the way out, but his impressive tournament this summer has earned him a reprieve. He is on the tipping point, and this loan will probably decide how it goes.

Either in the next summer window we sell him or integrate him into the squad fully.

And so far I am delighted to see he has impressed at Villa. Despite them being poor its still a big club, a big crowd, high expectation - its a tough place to go and play for him.

Agree with a lot of that

 

[Yoof]

I suspect he was going to be on the way out, but his impressive tournament this summer has earned him a reprieve. He is on the tipping point, and this loan will probably decide how it goes.

This most definitely isn't the case. He's highly rated by the club, he's only recently turned 20 and has just a handful of first team games under his belt, to suggest he's now at some kind of make or break/last chance saloon point in his Spurs career is ridiculously premature.

 

[braineclipse]

Let's ask them.

@Gazza Dazzla @Bedfordspurs @braineclipse @Gutter Boy

Before he went out on loan. Did you see Onomah as a squad or first choice option in central midfield for us this season?

@AdamB has pulled out the quotes below as evidence of the latter.

- Gazza Dazzla: (p27): "Trying not to get too carried away but I was so impressed/surprised with him in center mid, he has to play here for us next season rather than AM. On that performance we genuinely have 5 deep center mids to choose from next year now."
- Bedford Spurs (p27 respinding to Gazza Dazzla's post above): "I think that's all fair though"
- eltrev (p32): "I hope to see him get some opportunities in central midfield this season"
- braineclipse (p32): "Seems more head up than Dembele. Not as impressive physically at this point at least. Bit Carrick-esque, but more drive with the ball. If he wasn't already with us I would have been delighted if we signed him for £15-20m."
- GB: (p32): "I agree - sort of 5th choice CM (behind Wanyama, Dier, Dembele and Winks) perhaps starting in cups + lots of 20 minute cameos in the league at AM"

Squad, definitely. Behind the 4 of Wanyama, Dembele, Dier and Winks until proven to be better.

Still would have been very happy for the club to spend quite a lot of money to sign him if he wasn't already here.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think Onomah has to prove his self belief.

I always felt he has the ability, but not the confidence to impose himself. In his appearances for us he has been quite passive, quiet, and at times hiding from getting too involved.

It is obvious he has skill, vision, technique and the physical attributes - but does he have that bloody mindedness to really push and perform?

I think it is a valid doubt, and it is something of a deal breaker for him - unless he can push on he will simply fade out of the squad and be sold.

I also think this is where Pochettinos view is of him - this was a telling line about the loan:
"He can play as an 8, a 6, a 7 or 10 or 11, I think that is not the problem. He needs to prove himself that he can play"

So for me, Onomah isnt a starter. And isnt really a squad player either at this point. I suspect he was going to be on the way out, but his impressive tournament this summer has earned him a reprieve. He is on the tipping point, and this loan will probably decide how it goes.

Either in the next summer window we sell him or integrate him into the squad fully.

And so far I am delighted to see he has impressed at Villa. Despite them being poor its still a big club, a big crowd, high expectation - its a tough place to go and play for him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/897559710328655872

For a young lad out on his first loan, this doesn't strike me as someone passive, quiet and not wanting to get involved. It may be that playing amongst/against more inferior players than he has been accustomed to is giving him more confidence. He seems to be grasping the opportunity, which is great to see. Let's hope he continues to improve and thrive at Villa.

 

[milo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/897559710328655872

For a young lad out on his first loan, this doesn't strike me as someone passive, quiet and not wanting to get involved. It may be that playing amongst/against more inferior players than he has been accustomed to is giving him more confidence. He seems to be grasping the opportunity, which is great to see. Let's hope he continues to improve and thrive at Villa.

From the Guardian's article on Bruce

...the most recent being Joshua Onomah, on a season-long loan from Tottenham Hotspur. Worryingly, it was only really the 20-year-old who showed any kind of urgency, berating Gabriel Agbonlahor on one occasion for failing to press.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/15/reading-aston-villa-championship-match-report

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

This most definitely isn't the case. He's highly rated by the club, he's only recently turned 20 and has just a handful of first team games under his belt, to suggest he's now at some kind of make or break/last chance saloon point in his Spurs career is ridiculously premature.

Its not.

It doesnt matter how highly rated a player is, sooner or later they need to "step up". If they dont, then they move on - its life in football.

Onomah has had two seasons on the fringes (debut 2 and a half years ago iirc), and a lot of opportunities to stake a claim, and, well, hasnt...

Compare to Winks, who is of a similar age, similar position and has had similar (potentially less?) opportunities. Winks is without doubt a player relied upon in the first team/squad. Onomah is not.

Onomah has remained on the fringes, never really pushing on.

With the club and squad as it is, there is only so long that is acceptable. And only so long before another player is pushing for that same position, who is also highly rated, who will get chances...

So much comes down to timing, and taking opportunities as they arise. Let the pass and things just dont work out.

I firmly believe this loan is that make or break situation.

By next summer when he returns we will have strengthened, so he will really need to have proven he deserves a spot in the squad. And if he hasnt, he will have had a season to advertise himself to potential suitors (of which I have no doubt there will be many, especially at a championship level).

As well as for himself, having played a full season of regular games, he will likely want to continue regular football - which will mean he will likely face a decision himself outside of the clubs intentions.

https://twitter.com/x/status/897559710328655872

For a young lad out on his first loan, this doesn't strike me as someone passive, quiet and not wanting to get involved. It may be that playing amongst/against more inferior players than he has been accustomed to is giving him more confidence. He seems to be grasping the opportunity, which is great to see. Let's hope he continues to improve and thrive at Villa.

It doesnt, and believe me Im made up about it. I think the summer tournament has done him the world of good, and the loan is an opportunity he understands is something he needs to really grasp. I would love it if he came back stronger and ready to influence the team, it would be amazing - the lad clearly has a lot to work with. IF he can step up and push on he could be something really special. Now is the time to find out.

I also hope he continues to improve. I think the Championship is a strong division and any weakness will be found out - Im hoping this is one of those situations where he leaves as a boy and returns as a man.

 

[AdamB]

https://twitter.com/x/status/897559710328655872

For a young lad out on his first loan, this doesn't strike me as someone passive, quiet and not wanting to get involved. It may be that playing amongst/against more inferior players than he has been accustomed to is giving him more confidence. He seems to be grasping the opportunity, which is great to see. Let's hope he continues to improve and thrive at Villa.

Good to see that he's stepping up and trying to make the most of the opportunity

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Let's ask them.

@Gazza Dazzla @Bedfordspurs @braineclipse @Gutter Boy

Before he went out on loan. Did you see Onomah as a squad or first choice option in central midfield for us this season?

@AdamB has pulled out the quotes below as evidence of the latter.

- Gazza Dazzla: (p27): "Trying not to get too carried away but I was so impressed/surprised with him in center mid, he has to play here for us next season rather than AM. On that performance we genuinely have 5 deep center mids to choose from next year now."
- Bedford Spurs (p27 respinding to Gazza Dazzla's post above): "I think that's all fair though"
- eltrev (p32): "I hope to see him get some opportunities in central midfield this season"
- braineclipse (p32): "Seems more head up than Dembele. Not as impressive physically at this point at least. Bit Carrick-esque, but more drive with the ball. If he wasn't already with us I would have been delighted if we signed him for £15-20m."
- GB: (p32): "I agree - sort of 5th choice CM (behind Wanyama, Dier, Dembele and Winks) perhaps starting in cups + lots of 20 minute cameos in the league at AM"

I 100% saw him as a player did this season but only in central midfield

I will add that I also said that a loan would be massively beneficial and that Poch should consider it. I was told he would never do that for a player he liked but again he has and I believe he does like Onomah and he has been flexible in his approach (shock/horror)

But as a wide player he is toss... I'd be better

 

[BrainOfLevy]

He clearly wasn't 'on the way out' this season, he's one of our brightest prospects! It just so happens that Winks and Dembele are ahead of him, which is unfortunate for him, but they are also two excellent players.

 

[parklane1]

I actually was pleased to see him go out on loan to be honest i thought it was the best thing for him as i really could not see him getting many games here. However i forgot that the manager at Villa was the dinosaur Bruce and i hope this does not turn out bad for Josh.

 

[AdamB]

I actually was pleased to see him go out on loan to be honest i thought it was the best thing for him as i really could not see him getting many games here. However i forgot that the manager at Villa was the dinosaur Bruce and i hope this does not turn out bad for Josh.

To be fair to Steve Bruce, he has been promoted to the PL four times so its not unsurprising that teams appoint him. Been relegated a couple times though so maybe teams should sack him as soon as promotion is secured! I used to know a Brum fan though who was always moaning about the style of football

 

[parklane1]

To be fair to Steve Bruce, he has been promoted to the PL four times so its not unsurprising that teams appoint him. Been relegated a couple times though so maybe teams should sack him as soon as promotion is secured! I used to know a Brum fan though who was always moaning about the style of football

I think that may be the problem for Josh, if Villa keep losing it would not surprise me if Bruce decides to bring in " up and at them" type of players who are more graft then skill. Bruce is not really known for his free flowing football and in hard times its usually the flair players who get left out. I guess we will see.

 

[milo]

I 100% saw him as a player did this season but only in central midfield

I will add that I also said that a loan would be massively beneficial and that Poch should consider it. I was told he would never do that for a player he liked but again he has and I believe he does like Onomah and he has been flexible in his approach (shock/horror)

But as a wide player he is toss... I'd be better

Thanks. Where did you see him in the CM pecking order for this season before he went out on loan?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Thanks. Where did you see him in the CM pecking order for this season before he went out on loan?

4/5th

Behind dembele and wunks for that role

But for me he was by far and away the best player we had at the World Cup. It was men vs boys with him. He was an absolute beast in the mousse mould

 

[braineclipse]

I 100% saw him as a player did this season but only in central midfield

I will add that I also said that a loan would be massively beneficial and that Poch should consider it. I was told he would never do that for a player he liked but again he has and I believe he does like Onomah and he has been flexible in his approach (shock/horror)

But as a wide player he is toss... I'd be better

I think GB is the only poster that has claimed that about Pochettino. Has been argued against every time it has come up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think GB is the only poster that has claimed that about Pochettino. Has been argued against every time it has come up.

GB has his blinkers on sometimes