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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Diamond Lights said:
Jose split the fanbase at Man U massively and can see the same here now. he's built his schtick as a results man, the football may be bland but it gets results. currently we've got bland football and no results.

We've got some of the best attacking players in the League and have been outscored by all of the Top 6 as if that's by accident not design. I'd love for him to turn it around but the constant backing of him is bewildering, he has Kane, Son, Moura, Bale, Bergwijn, Ndombele. We shouldn't have scored the same amount as Aston Villa no matter which way you cut it. That's on him to own, no one else.
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He is clearly an intelligent man, no one speaks that many languages if they are stupid. But he is unwilling to change his ideology of defensive play even when the fact that we can't keep a clean sheet would mean the only way to win games would be to attack.
 
parklane1 said:
The team was a good one that has been improved on since, i know there are a lot of fans who dislike Levy but " rent a quote" has left most of his clubs in a bad way money wise ( broke) and thankfully Levy was here to stop that happening.

But thankfully he is now history and all this has been mentioned during his time here and i am sure no one wants to bring it up again.
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This is overstated and not really true. Pompey are the only side that Harry had any real impact on their financial dealings.

I think Harry had the best team but Poch was the best coach and of course had the best striker by far.
 
parklane1 said:
If you are waiting for a yes from some you will be waiting a long time for that, some have made it clear from day one that they have no time for Jose and they would never admit that Jose has done something right. Sad really.
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I will take that as a direct hit.

I wish you, and others who enjoy playing the "what a polarized place this is" game would take more care in reading comments.

I remember saying early-doors that the manager -whoever they are- needs 100% backing, and that when you get Mourinho in, you'd best be ready to give him everything he wants. He had not quite had that has he? He made a comment re: Bergwijn last spring that I mentioned here ("not my first choice") and was ignored/rebuffed (all good, no worries) but I sensed then he was setting a foundation and making a point. He wanted Skriner (sp) big-time. Did not get him. He wanted a top CF (I heard he wanted Ings) he did not get him. He wanted Dele moved on this Jan, he was shut down on that. Look, I don't blame anyone, we are run the way we are run, but I DO have some sympathy for him in that regard.

What I think is very clear is that he is now turning to Bale and Alli because his avenues are increasingly blocked off, and he has to work with them due to circumstances. Bale's return was Levy's dream as much as Mourinho was his dream, so that's the first, and Levy is the one who flat out refused to let Alli go (the same as he refused to let NDombele leave in the summer, telling his reps he would not sell him). So now Jose's hand has been forced, he is working with it because HIS way is not working (again partially not his fault as he wanted a top CB and got a project instead).

Maybe the most frustrating thing about Mourinho is that when HE wants to make it work, he evidently can. He has all the brains and all the chops. The pragmatist that lives within him so strongly can also be his biggest demon. Thankfully, it appears he is prepared to work with what he has in the best way it can be deployed.

Here's hoping he can win the Europa, and hey, perhaps there is still a shot at top 4 given how mental this season has been. With LoCelso to return, there has to be hope.

All good though my friend, just goes to show that the "polar game" is not unique.
 
parklane1 said:
I do not disagree with some hating him ( they are generally those that do not play under him) It like that gonad*s piece in the papers about dressing room unrest, sure as brick the players who/if are bitching about it are those who are not being picked to play. And that is the same at every club.
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Weirdly enough -and I have heard no more- I caught a whisper that this did not come from the dressing room but elsewhere within the club. Who knows what it means, but we can probably be grateful there are no fans in the stadium right now as it would be toxic and the spinners would be out vampiring off their "sources" at hyper speed!
 
thfcsteff said:
I will take that as a direct hit.

I wish you, and others who enjoy playing the "what a polarized place this is" game would take more care in reading comments.

I remember saying early-doors that the manager -whoever they are- needs 400% backing, and that when you get Mourinho in, you'd best be ready to give him everything he wants. He had not quite had that has he? He made a comment re: Bergwijn last spring that I mentioned here ("not my first choice") and was ignored/rebuffed (all good, no worries) but I sensed then he was setting a foundation and making a point. He wanted Skriner (sp) big-time. Did not get him. He wanted a top CF (I heard he wanted Ings) he did not get him. He wanted Dele moved on this Jan, he was shut down on that. Look, I don't blame anyone, we are run the way we are run, but I DO have some sympathy for him in that regard.

What I think is very clear is that he is now turning to Bale and Alli because his avenues are increasingly blocked off, and he has to work with them due to circumstances. Bale's return was Levy's dream as much as Mourinho was his dream, so that's the first, and Levy is the one who flat out refused to let Alli go (the same as he refused to let NDombele leave in the summer, telling his reps he would not sell him). So now Jose's hand has been forced, he is working with it because HIS way is not working (again partially not his fault as he wanted a top CB and got a project instead).

Maybe the most frustrating thing about Mourinho is that when HE wants to make it work, he evidently can. He has all the brains and all the chops. The pragmatist that lives within him so strongly can also be his biggest demon. Thankfully, it appears he is prepared to work with what he has in the best way it can be deployed.

Here's hoping he can win the Europa, and hey, perhaps there is still a shot at top 4 given how mental this season has been. With LoCelso to return, there has to be hope.

All good though my friend, just goes to show that the "polar game" is not unique.
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I'd be surprised if you were first in line for the target of the original comment. You may not be his biggest fan, but don't think you are near the top of "Jose man bad" lineup

Interesting observation btw, he is a pragmatist, for whatever reason it'd be nice to have a good run to the end of the season.
 
elltrev said:
I can't believe that's all there is to it - there must be something that went wrong between Dele and Jose in the first half of the season. I say that because Dele was always starting under Jose last season, there were no real rumours of him leaving the summer, and he started the first game of this season. Then for some reason Jose subbed him at HT, and hasn't started him again in the PL since.

Personally I suspect that Dele didn't react well to being subbed at HT on the opening day, and/or to his subsequent limited gametime (in attitude and/or performance), and by January Mourinho was tinkled off that Dele hadn't reacted in a positive way. (At that point I can believe that he wanted to sell him, including to generate funds for a centre back).

Let's hope the window closing, and Dele's recent gametime and good EL performances, are the start of him playing more first team football and getting back towards his best.
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Let's just say it is as it always was.
He had issues. That is a fact. The papers finally broke it but it was known for a long time.
He had to accept some responsibility for where he was at, but he is a character that needs a certain type of management, and it comes down to whether a manager believes a player is worth that or is prepared to work like that. Mourinho allowed the likes of Ibra and Ronaldo for sure, but they were "winners" and mature pros. Dele is in a delicate spot, where he has been around for a while and needs some strong but supportive guidance to get him through to the next level.
Personally, I think Levy played a blinder refusing to let him go and challenging both parties to find a way. Objectively, that is not supporting the manager. Depends on your perspective I suppose. Nothing is ever black and white, eh...
 
Raziel said:
I'd be surprised if you were first in line for the target of the original comment. You may not be his biggest fan, but don't think you are near the top of "Jose man bad" lineup

Interesting observation btw, he is a pragmatist, for whatever reason it'd be nice to have a good run to the end of the season.
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You are probably right, and for that PL1 I apologize in advance, but it was in response to a question I was directly asked.

RE: pragmatist...you must've missed my comment a few days ago replying to you on something. I noted that you had raised pragmatism generally, and I think it is an intriguing and definitive aspect of all conversations regarding Mourinho and Pochettino too. Pragmatic people will understand Jose better than not-pragmatists. Without diving too deeply into philosophy (as I believe the end goal for people generally is that same and that pragmatism/non-pragmatism are just paths to that) I think that the revival of Bale/Dele and Mourinho's part in it does indeed revolve around the reality that we cannot defend as he wants and that this is his best route out.
FWIW, I think he stands a very, very good chance of winning the Europa. It is, essentially, a mini-league and he is over-qualified to win these situations. And agreed, here's hoping the season runs well from now. If us winning the Europa means he stays, fair enough, all good. I want a trophy and CL next season, with the latter vital.
 
p.s. I freely admit that I often find total pragmatism highly aggravating as I subscribe to life being as much about moments and instinct as method. Obviously finding the blend is the way forward, but if forced, I tend to go for instinct, vibe and the moment.:D...something I'm sure wasn't especially clear hahahahaha!
 
thfcsteff said:
p.s. I freely admit that I often find total pragmatism highly aggravating as I subscribe to life being as much about moments and instinct as method. Obviously finding the blend is the way forward, but if forced, I tend to go for instinct, vibe and the moment.:D...something I'm sure wasn't especially clear hahahahaha!
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Truly shocking ;)

The answer I suppose as with most things is somewhere in-between.
 
elltrev said:
I totally agree with almost all of that. (I guess I should have been clearer that I think Jose saw something in his attitude and/or performances that he didn't like. Because I agree it seems to me that Dele wasn't getting as much gametime as his performances deserved).

I don't see why Jose would suddenly want to force him out for some CB money right at the beginning of the season though, rather than doing that over the summer or waiting until January? Unless something happened at the beginning of the season (Jose not liking Dele's response to being dropped, or the rumours about Dele's off the field issues - which personally I'll just choose to ignore unless there's good evidence).
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This for me too. It's possible to play well without adjusting to what the manager wants in key moments. I think reports that Mourinho at least was communicating that he would be happy to see Alli go are likely to be true. Getting money in to strengthen other areas would be an alright outcome for him.

Bit I also think Mourinho most likely wanted to see a different response from Alli, either in training or in games. Attitude or decision making.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Jose split the fanbase at Man U massively and can see the same here now. he's built his schtick as a results man, the football may be bland but it gets results. currently we've got bland football and no results.

We've got some of the best attacking players in the League and have been outscored by all of the Top 6 as if that's by accident not design. I'd love for him to turn it around but the constant backing of him is bewildering, he has Kane, Son, Moura, Bale, Bergwijn, Ndombele. We shouldn't have scored the same amount as Aston Villa no matter which way you cut it. That's on him to own, no one else.
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I don't think it's as split as it's being made out to be on this forum at least. I'm not seeing many, or any, posters on here saying that Mourinho should be given full backing in the summer and next season regardless of results and performances this season.

Most that are defending him, myself at least, are saying that we're not doing well enough and that we need a turnaround fairly soon.
 
braineclipse said:
I don't think it's as split as it's being made out to be on this forum at least. I'm not seeing many, or any, posters on here saying that Mourinho should be given full backing in the summer and next season regardless of results and performances this season.

Most that are defending him, myself at least, are saying that we're not doing well enough and that we need a turnaround fairly soon.
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Genuinely interested here. At what point would you change from wanting him here to wanting him replaced?

End of season no matter how bad things get?
As soon as it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify for CL or Europa?
If 12 points from 12 games becomes 15 (or less) points from 15 games?

What’s your criteria?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Genuinely interested here. At what point would you change from wanting him here to wanting him replaced?

End of season no matter how bad things get?
As soon as it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify for CL or Europa?
If 12 points from 12 games becomes 15 (or less) points from 15 games?

What’s your criteria?
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Does there really have to be some set criteria? It’s pretty obvious unless we head towards being relegation threatened nothing is going to happen this season. Most people on this side of the fence are just saying let’s see where we are come the end of the season. Things change quickly in football, and even quicker in this weird and wonderful season. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility our form will pick up to compete for a top 4 spot come the end of the season, and maybe a trophy - as unlikely as it seems right now. If there is no evident progress come the end of the season, then of course there is a decision to be made....
 
thfcsteff said:
All good though my friend, just goes to show that the "polar game" is not unique.
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Of course its not, it never is with football fans especially. As you say we all have opinions about our great club and those that run it, Will we all agree? not a chance and we never will. What has dissapointed me is that even on here there have been some fans who have suggested they would not be that sad to see us lose if it made the exit of Jose quicker.

I will never understand that view ( and i think you feel the same about that), as i have said before i hated us giving "rent a quote" the job as our manager but i ALWAYS wanted us to win every game under him.

Sorry for cutting your post down but i really wanted to respond to the bit above.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Genuinely interested here. At what point would you change from wanting him here to wanting him replaced?

End of season no matter how bad things get?
As soon as it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify for CL or Europa?
If 12 points from 12 games becomes 15 (or less) points from 15 games?

What’s your criteria?
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It's a good question, I don't have a set in stone answer in advance. Results is one thing, performances count quite a lot to me too on this.

We have to improve our performances and show some consistency this season for sure. If our current slump in terms of results continues with matching poor performances continues for a month or two I'd be at the very least be leaning towards getting rid. Not quite sure the next four games is the one decisive factor, but it's a factor.

Getting rid mid season would depend somewhat on who we can get in, permanently or temporarily.

Another factor related to performance (and results) are how the players look in games, and to some extent on reports about happiness in the press. If the players start looking dejected, giving up, if it looks like there's no way back then bye bye.
 
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