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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Finney Is Back said:
Genuinely interested here. At what point would you change from wanting him here to wanting him replaced?

End of season no matter how bad things get?
As soon as it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify for CL or Europa?
If 12 points from 12 games becomes 15 (or less) points from 15 games?

What’s your criteria?
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I'll answer this, The points don't matter, it's where are we compared to peers e.g. our form is terrible right now but amazingly we are still in top 10, 9 points off top 4 with a game in hand on them. But here is the list from my perspective

- If we get cut adrift of top 6
- If our form doesn't improve (next 5 games)
- If we drop out of Europa before SFs
- If we lose the League Cup Final
- The players pack it in (the classic dressing room support)

no single criteria is the one, it's some combination of the above.

Truth is
- Top 6, League Cup win and Europa SF/Final would probably be an acceptable season (and delivers first trophy in 13+ years)
- Top 6, League Cup Final and Europa Win is a successful season
- Top 8 and two cups would be one of Spurs best season's ever

All three of those are still possible right now and as long as that's on the table and the players are playing for the manager it would make no sense to risk changing it, especially as it would involve taking a financial hit on top of it.
 
Raziel said:
I'll answer this, The points don't matter, it's where are we compared to peers e.g. our form is terrible right now but amazingly we are still in top 10, 9 points off top 4 with a game in hand on them. But here is the list from my perspective

- If we get cut adrift of top 6
- If our form doesn't improve (next 5 games)
- If we drop out of Europa before SFs
- If we lose the League Cup Final
- The players pack it in (the classic dressing room support)

no single criteria is the one, it's some combination of the above.

Truth is
- Top 6, League Cup win and Europa SF/Final would probably be an acceptable season (and delivers first trophy in 13+ years)
- Top 6, League Cup Final and Europa Win is a successful season
- Top 8 and two cups would be one of Spurs best season's ever

All three of those are still possible right now and as long as that's on the table and the players are playing for the manager it would make no sense to risk changing it, especially as it would involve taking a financial hit on top of it.
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I would also take scenario 1 and I would bite your arm off for scenarios 2 or 3. In fact I wouldn't care where we finished in the league (as long as not 18th or lower) if we won the Europa.
 
harr1984 said:
Does there really have to be some set criteria? It’s pretty obvious unless we head towards being relegation threatened nothing is going to happen this season. Most people on this side of the fence are just saying let’s see where we are come the end of the season. Things change quickly in football, and even quicker in this weird and wonderful season. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility our form will pick up to compete for a top 4 spot come the end of the season, and maybe a trophy - as unlikely as it seems right now. If there is no evident progress come the end of the season, then of course there is a decision to be made....
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I don't think anything is obvious.... If we continue to perform at the same rate of 1ppg rate as in our last 12 in the league then Levy may well decide to act. If we exit stage left in the last 16 of the Europa League Levy may make the same decision.

I was just genuinely interested as to whether parklane had a point of no return and what that point of no return is. It seems that your point of no return would only be assessed at the end of the season and you are as entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else in this world.
 
Raziel said:
I'll answer this, The points don't matter, it's where are we compared to peers e.g. our form is terrible right now but amazingly we are still in top 10, 9 points off top 4 with a game in hand on them. But here is the list from my perspective

- If we get cut adrift of top 6
- If our form doesn't improve (next 5 games)
- If we drop out of Europa before SFs
- If we lose the League Cup Final
- The players pack it in (the classic dressing room support)

no single criteria is the one, it's some combination of the above.

Truth is
- Top 6, League Cup win and Europa SF/Final would probably be an acceptable season (and delivers first trophy in 13+ years)
- Top 6, League Cup Final and Europa Win is a successful season
- Top 8 and two cups would be one of Spurs best season's ever

All three of those are still possible right now and as long as that's on the table and the players are playing for the manager it would make no sense to risk changing it, especially as it would involve taking a financial hit on top of it.
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I am even more extreme. I am willing to sacrifice this season if it means we have a better and stronger team next season and we win some trophies. It takes time to build something lasting.
 
mjc23 said:
As much as Jose has driven me to despair this season, I am pleased to see him giving a run out to some of our youngsters.
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Careful mate .. you tread dangerous ground (giving Jose credit), he has

- Given time with first team and debuts to a few youngsters
- His approval of loans (and whoever is finding the loan clubs) is also a vast improvement on recent times (Skipp, Sess and even Harvey's White's loan is starting to look good)

I hope it's something we retain regardless of his future with us or not.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
He is clearly an intelligent man, no one speaks that many languages if they are stupid. But he is unwilling to change his ideology of defensive play even when the fact that we can't keep a clean sheet would mean the only way to win games would be to attack.
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I agree with all that so as an intelligent man why won’t he change it?

You might say that he’s too arrogant but I do find it strange
 
good to see us playing attacking football and with attacking players on the pitch. said many a time Bale has that X Factor and you have to start him, even if he comes off after 70 mins.

Proof is in the pudding though, this is the sort of starting XI we need to see against bigger and better challenges than Burnley.
 
Diamond Lights said:
good to see us playing attacking football and with attacking players on the pitch. said many a time Bale has that X Factor and you have to start him, even if he comes off after 70 mins.

Proof is in the pudding though, this is the sort of starting XI we need to see against bigger and better challenges than Burnley.
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This is the kind of starting eleven we haven't had available and in form during our poor run of results.

I also think this is the kind of starting eleven Mourinho's been working towards. Getting Ndombele up to speed so he can start deeper. Get Bale fitter and more confident so he can start producing.

We have a rather good strongest eleven, with a couple of weak points. The drop of in quality in some positions with players missing is stark though.
 
braineclipse said:
This is the kind of starting eleven we haven't had available and in form during our poor run of results.

I also think this is the kind of starting eleven Mourinho's been working towards. Getting Ndombele up to speed so he can start deeper. Get Bale fitter and more confident so he can start producing.

We have a rather good strongest eleven, with a couple of weak points. The drop of in quality in some positions with players missing is stark though.
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I do see your point but not sure i fully agree. I think Jose has been pushed into this way given the drop in quality like you said, it's definitely an unnatural attacking ideology for him to embrace, i think that he's more risk adverse than this but given where we are, recent form, he's had to throw caution to the wind to save his job. Looking at the Fulham, Palace, Wolves games etc, a lot of these players were available then, but Jose was too defensive minded to risk it.
 
Diamond Lights said:
I do see your point but not sure i fully agree. I think Jose has been pushed into this way given the drop in quality like you said, it's definitely an unnatural attacking ideology for him to embrace, i think that he's more risk adverse than this but given where we are, recent form, he's had to throw caution to the wind to save his job. Looking at the Fulham, Palace, Wolves games etc, a lot of these players were available then, but Jose was too defensive minded to risk it.
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We saw last season that he wasn't afraid to use Lo Celso deeper in midfield. He even started Lo Celso there against Liverpool earlier in the season.

Same Mourinho that used Fabregas next to Matic deep in midfield for Chelsea during his second spell there. Could give more examples, but I don't see the point.

I genuinely think Sissoko in central midfield next to Hojbjerg, in games other than against the biggest teams at least, was a result of a lack of (fit, in form) options rather than a reflection on Mourinho's ideology.

Ndombele looks very good and ready for that deeper role now. Would he have been earlier in the season? At some point earlier than when Mourinho started using him there, maybe. At the start of the season I doubt it. I don't think the plan for the season was ever Hojbjerg and Sissoko.
 
I've liked what I've seen in most of the last 5 or so games....

We are playing more front foot football.
We are leaving more players higher up the pitch.
We look as though we're playing less long balls.
It looks like the players are still playing for the manager.

We'll still make defensive mistakes as we are weak in the centre of defence. I think the two that played on Sunday are our best two however (though I say that having not really seen enough of Rodon) and should play the rest of the PL games this season if fit. Though we're also now having to play decent teams in the Europa and I'm not sure we can expose Dier to those?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I've liked what I've seen in most of the last 5 or so games....

We are playing more front foot football.
We are leaving more players higher up the pitch.
We look as though we're playing less long balls.
It looks like the players are still playing for the manager.

We'll still make defensive mistakes as we are weak in the centre of defence. I think the two that played on Sunday are our best two however (though I say that having not really seen enough of Rodon) and should play the rest of the PL games this season if fit. Though we're also now having to play decent teams in the Europa and I'm not sure we can expose Dier to those?
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I think Dier is getting by through his voice in the dressing room and the determination that Mourinho likes ... but ability wise he has gone backwards since his peak under Poch playing in midfield next to Dembele/Wanyama
 
braineclipse said:
This is the kind of starting eleven we haven't had available and in form during our poor run of results.

I also think this is the kind of starting eleven Mourinho's been working towards. Getting Ndombele up to speed so he can start deeper. Get Bale fitter and more confident so he can start producing.

We have a rather good strongest eleven, with a couple of weak points. The drop of in quality in some positions with players missing is stark though.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this.

Has Mourinho yet had a fully fit first team squad available to pick from in his entire time at Spurs?

Think about that for a minute.
 
Bale made a huge difference and as long as Mourinho resists parking the bus against Fulham all should be good at least in the short term.
 
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