Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[thfcsteff]

Do you not believe that the way he has managed bale and dele may be why they have turned the corner (assuming they have)?
I’ll add on the dele front it’s no coincidence that he looks more lively now if he is “fit and healthy... “. I mean unless the rumours I mentioned 6 weeks ago were completely untrue and the sun made up the story this week (like they do).

The stories were apparently _____ (I never saw the Sun story so am not referring to that but am referring to other things circulating for some time)
And I do believe that in recent weeks his management of them appears to have been better.
But he could've engaged in this approach a few months earlier with Dele. The truth is, he wanted him gone, thought he was going, Levy said no and now they have been forced to do what they should've done all along IMO.

Let's see if he continues to use them well in the coming weeks. Here's hoping.

 

[thfcsteff]

Dele didn't look any different to the player that played well v Plovdiv in the group stage and I'd argue that was actually a much better all round performance.

Agreed. If people want to argue there's been a turnaround to justify his absence from the team then they will do but it doesn't really stack up imo

For me, this was when the bespoke mgmt of his career was needed from Mourinho. At that point, his way was getting results and Dele didn't figure in that system.

I feel that now he realizes we have to play with the ball more, Dele is figuring again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The stories were true.
And I do believe that in recent weeks his management of them appears to have been better.
But he could've engaged in this approach a few months earlier with Dele. The truth is, he wanted him gone, thought he was going, Levy said no and now they have been forced to do what they should've done all along IMO.

Let's see if he continues to use them well in the coming weeks. Here's hoping.

I think he will
He will see him as a fresh and fit player
Mourinho is far less stubborn than people think as ultimately he wants wins and dele abs bale can do that for him
I stand by what I said after the West Ham game... bale will win is the cups IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think he will
He will see him as a fresh and fit player
Mourinho is far less stubborn than people think as ultimately he wants wins and dele abs bale can do that for him
I stand by what I said after the West Ham game... bale will win is the cups IMO.

I agree re: Bale/Europa, and said the same post WHU.
Here's to it happening!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree re: Bale/Europa, and said the same post WHU.
Here's to it happening!

X factor
Keep him fit
Keep him motivated
Add in dele
And we have Lo Celso back soon too

 

[Notmegov]

I feel like we are evolving Jose as a club, he has had to change his ways his outlook on life to deal with the brick storm that is Spurs.

Then again i am probably wrong.

 

[thfcsteff]

X factor
Keep him fit
Keep him motivated
Add in dele
And we have Lo Celso back soon too

All positives and reasons to feel we can extricate ourselves from the current mess in the short-term anyway.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I feel like we are evolving Jose as a club, he has had to change his ways his outlook on life to deal with the brick storm that is Spurs.

Then again i am probably wrong.

I guess we will see soon

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All positives and reasons to feel we can extricate ourselves from the current mess in the short-term anyway.

Seasons do go in phases
But this season does feel very odd and unique

 

[thfcsteff]

I feel like we are evolving Jose as a club, he has had to change his ways his outlook on life to deal with the brick storm that is Spurs.

Then again i am probably wrong.

No, it is a great discussion point. I think it is as much a result of his ego and pragmatism (which is fair enough - he is who he is).But he has been forced into a corner and can surely see this is the only way out.

 

[afsoc4life]

I feel like we are evolving Jose as a club, he has had to change his ways his outlook on life to deal with the brick storm that is Spurs.

Then again i am probably wrong.

To me, this is how Jose has almost always been. Been following him for a while. There is a reason why a number of his former players love the guy. They know he is genuine.

He has mellowed as he has grown older. He still likes managing players, enjoys intelligent players, likes to figure out how to win trophies, wants the best for his players and his staff (look at how many of his assistants or coaches are club managers) etc

There is an interview of Jose by Andy Gray. I suggest watching it. It is very informative on the man as a human being and as a manager. There are a number of media houses who are looking for any opportunity to destroy the guy's image - I still don't get why.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To me, this is how Jose has almost always been. Been following him for a while. There is a reason why a number of his former players love the guy. They know he is genuine.

He has mellowed as he has grown older. He still likes managing players, enjoys intelligent players, likes to figure out how to win trophies, wants the best for his players and his staff (look at how many of his assistants or coaches are club managers) etc

There is an interview of Jose by Andy Gray. I suggest watching it. It is very informative on the man as a human being and as a manager. There are a number of media houses who are looking for any opportunity to destroy the guy's image - I still don't get why.

It’s because he is very divisive by his nature
People will highlight players he “dug out” and it didn’t work (shaw) forgetting the ones he treated the same and it did (eto for example)
Some players will work for him and some wont, same as any manager
What I do find odd is the press want his quotes, they want his lines as it sells. But they then want to use anything against him
When we were top Jonathan Wilson did a piece about in a time for crisis the only Jose could win the league... then 4 weeks later he had his knives out for him. And he is a pretty decent writer imo.... which says a lot as to how they will flip flop
The reality is he could do something’s better, there are things he probably doesn’t need to change and somethings he is probably very good at. He isn’t perfect but then who is?!?

 

[Mr Gogolak]

What I do find odd is the press want his quotes, they want his lines as it sells. But they then want to use anything against him

I always assumed he did that on purpose. I think he uses that siege mentality (it's us against the rest of the world) to motivate his players. By the way, it seems most of his former players have a lot of time for him but, again, I don't really care about that. At the end of the day, his bosses want results and trophies and people like us want to be entertained (something that could be quite different depending on who you're asking for a definition).

For instance, Ndombele is a much better player now than he was last season. Whether that's down to Mourinho's management or not is irrelevant as a) we'll never know the truth and b) he, more than any other manager, will be judged on results anyway. His man-management method didn't work at all at United. It's quite likely that at some point, he'll be out of touch with a new generation of players but that's his problem (and his career).

I keep on saying the same thing over and over again (one more name to add to that list!!) but I can understand why people don't like him when they see us play; on the other hand, disliking him for his alledged treatment of a player or his post-match comments seems a bit over the top - but that's just my opinion.

 

[Gazza]

I always assumed he did that on purpose. I think he uses that siege meteorology (it's us against the rest of the world) to motivate his players. By the way, it seems most of his former players have a lot of time for him but, again, I don't really care about that. At the end of the day, his bosses want results and trophies and people like us want to be entertained (something that could be quite different depending on who you're asking for a definition).

For instance, Ndombele is a much better player now than he was last season. Whether that's down to Mourinho's management or not is irrelevant as a) we'll never know the truth and b) he, more than any other manager, will be judged on results anyway. His man-management method didn't work at all at United. It's quite likely that at some point, he'll be out of touch with a new generation of players but that's his problem (and his career).

I keep on saying the same thing over and over again (one more name to add to that list!!) but I can understand why people don't like him when they see us play; on the other hand, disliking him for his alledged treatment of a player or his post-match comments seems a bit over the top - but that's just my opinion.

Behave yourself this fourm has no place for rationale or middle ground.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I share a lot of F365 articles as i think they're bang on mostly, but guys i would seriously URGE you to read this today, as i cannot disagree with any it. Included some parts below but really, great article: https://www.football365.com/news/tottenham-gareth-bale-dele-alli-actually-good

Jermaine Jenas nailed the situation on commentary after Dele had created the second goal with a pinpoint cross for Vinicius. “Dele does something that all attacking midfielders need to do but that Jose hates. He risks the ball.”

Risk-reward is at the heart of most sports, and football is no exception. Dele across his career has absolutely been on the wrong side of that line at various points in his career, although some Spurs fans are now so thoroughly Mourinhoed that he got abuse for attempting a risky 92nd-minute flick at West Ham that was almost identical to the one that set up Lucas Moura’s third at Amsterdam (in other words, the most important Tottenham goal of the last decade).

Dele and Bale are high-risk players. Bale won’t track back like Steven Bergwijn. Dele won’t retain possession like Harry Winks. But they are capable of unlocking a stubborn defence or locating a goal from nowhere. They are, in the form they’re tentatively starting to show, worth the risk. Right now, is Bale more likely to help turn a 1-0 lead into a 2-0 lead than Bergwijn is to stop 1-0 becoming 1-1? He must be.

 

[Raziel]

I share a lot of F365 articles as i think they're bang on mostly, but guys i would seriously URGE you to read this today, as i cannot disagree with any it. Included some parts below but really, great article: https://www.football365.com/news/tottenham-gareth-bale-dele-alli-actually-good

Jermaine Jenas nailed the situation on commentary after Dele had created the second goal with a pinpoint cross for Vinicius. “Dele does something that all attacking midfielders need to do but that Jose hates. He risks the ball.”

Risk-reward is at the heart of most sports, and football is no exception. Dele across his career has absolutely been on the wrong side of that line at various points in his career, although some Spurs fans are now so thoroughly Mourinhoed that he got abuse for attempting a risky 92nd-minute flick at West Ham that was almost identical to the one that set up Lucas Moura’s third at Amsterdam (in other words, the most important Tottenham goal of the last decade).

Dele and Bale are high-risk players. Bale won’t track back like Steven Bergwijn. Dele won’t retain possession like Harry Winks. But they are capable of unlocking a stubborn defence or locating a goal from nowhere. They are, in the form they’re tentatively starting to show, worth the risk. Right now, is Bale more likely to help turn a 1-0 lead into a 2-0 lead than Bergwijn is to stop 1-0 becoming 1-1? He must be.

So I read the article, here's my thought

- Jose does not like you risking the ball = yes, but that is often dictated by where you are on the pitch. I don't think he would bench Son or Kane for losing the ball high up.
- The issue with the Dele flick against West Ham is it was always going to be our last shot at getting something out of the game (and in that very similar to Ajax), again I'm a bit confused with the surprise of most people's reaction -> this is the equivalent to a striker taking the shot on when other options are available (or Vini taking the ball of Scarlett's boot yesterday), you make the decision to go with the high risk option when the game depends on it -> you need to pull it off or you take brick

From the actual article -> From the outside looking in, it would be reasonable to assume that neither Bale nor Dele have always helped themselves as much as they might have done this season. Neither is blameless for their peripheral role in a season that could, quite inexplicably, still end up as Tottenham’s best in 60 years. But with Bale finally rumbling up to something like racing pace

It's a bit rambling to be honest as it confuses past results, with players (Bale) now getting to form and ignores changes (Bergwijn isn't really a starter for us now in PL, Winks has been dropped for some time). Dele's competition in the side isn't Winks or Berhwijn at this point.

The piece I agree with is -> the way forward is to include Bale (as long as he stays fit), and Dele (as long as he turns in the right performances)

 

[harr1984]

I share a lot of F365 articles as i think they're bang on mostly, but guys i would seriously URGE you to read this today, as i cannot disagree with any it. Included some parts below but really, great article: https://www.football365.com/news/tottenham-gareth-bale-dele-alli-actually-good

Jermaine Jenas nailed the situation on commentary after Dele had created the second goal with a pinpoint cross for Vinicius. “Dele does something that all attacking midfielders need to do but that Jose hates. He risks the ball.”

Risk-reward is at the heart of most sports, and football is no exception. Dele across his career has absolutely been on the wrong side of that line at various points in his career, although some Spurs fans are now so thoroughly Mourinhoed that he got abuse for attempting a risky 92nd-minute flick at West Ham that was almost identical to the one that set up Lucas Moura’s third at Amsterdam (in other words, the most important Tottenham goal of the last decade).

Dele and Bale are high-risk players. Bale won’t track back like Steven Bergwijn. Dele won’t retain possession like Harry Winks. But they are capable of unlocking a stubborn defence or locating a goal from nowhere. They are, in the form they’re tentatively starting to show, worth the risk. Right now, is Bale more likely to help turn a 1-0 lead into a 2-0 lead than Bergwijn is to stop 1-0 becoming 1-1? He must be.

Don’t quite buy that. Mourinho has constantly referred to his work ethic(I’m a big Dele fan and I’ve never seen any problem in that area)being the issue. Mourinho has constantly played Lamela and Moura in Deles position who are not risk averse players. Moura constantly dribbles and is direct, and Lamela similar and they both lose the ball plenty. But they do both work very hard, that’s not me saying they should be picked ahead of Dele but I don’t doubt their attitude is more to Mourinhos liking. Hopefully Deles period out of the team has given him more hunger to work even harder....

 

[Gazza]

Don’t quite buy that. Mourinho has constantly referred to his work ethic(I’m a big Dele fan and I’ve never seen any problem in that area)being the issue. Mourinho has constantly played Lamela and Moura in Deles position who are not risk averse players. Moura constantly dribbles and is direct, and Lamela similar and they both lose the ball plenty. But they do both work very hard, that’s not me saying they should be picked ahead of Dele but I don’t doubt their attitude is more to Mourinhos liking. Hopefully Deles period out of the team has given him more hunger to work even harder....

Hopefully he kicks on, all great players are able to adapt and get their head down. I think Dele and Mourinho know that the best Dele can be the difference between a draw/loss and a win. However there was something that Dele said in the documentary of just playing defence and long balling it ... that style of play does not play to his strengths, vs Moura and Lamela who run around and cover both ends of the pitch quickly making up the numbers.

 

[parklane1]

Do you not believe that the way he has managed bale and dele may be why they have turned the corner (assuming they have)?
I’ll add on the dele front it’s no coincidence that he looks more lively now if he is “fit and healthy... “. I mean unless the rumours I mentioned 6 weeks ago were completely untrue and the sun made up the story this week (like they do).

If you are waiting for a yes from some you will be waiting a long time for that, some have made it clear from day one that they have no time for Jose and they would never admit that Jose has done something right. Sad really.

 

[braineclipse]

I share a lot of F365 articles as i think they're bang on mostly, but guys i would seriously URGE you to read this today, as i cannot disagree with any it. Included some parts below but really, great article: https://www.football365.com/news/tottenham-gareth-bale-dele-alli-actually-good

Jermaine Jenas nailed the situation on commentary after Dele had created the second goal with a pinpoint cross for Vinicius. “Dele does something that all attacking midfielders need to do but that Jose hates. He risks the ball.”

Risk-reward is at the heart of most sports, and football is no exception. Dele across his career has absolutely been on the wrong side of that line at various points in his career, although some Spurs fans are now so thoroughly Mourinhoed that he got abuse for attempting a risky 92nd-minute flick at West Ham that was almost identical to the one that set up Lucas Moura’s third at Amsterdam (in other words, the most important Tottenham goal of the last decade).

Dele and Bale are high-risk players. Bale won’t track back like Steven Bergwijn. Dele won’t retain possession like Harry Winks. But they are capable of unlocking a stubborn defence or locating a goal from nowhere. They are, in the form they’re tentatively starting to show, worth the risk. Right now, is Bale more likely to help turn a 1-0 lead into a 2-0 lead than Bergwijn is to stop 1-0 becoming 1-1? He must be.

Disagree with most of that.

Mourinho doesn't hate risk. He prefers a lower risk style compared to many other managers, but he certainly accepts risk. He's moved Ndombele deeper, he's used Lo Celso deeper when fit. Is Lamela a player that doesn't take risks? Is Son? Is Reguilon? Is Aurier?

We can't know for sure what Mourinho wants from Alli. My speculation is that he wants that risk in the final third, or in situations where there's a bigger upside and that he wants less of it in situations where the reward is smaller. I think that's fair, and Alli making the wrong decisions in those situations has been at least a plausible valid criticism of him even when brilliant. Though Pochettino had a different approach to risk it was certainly mentioned on here years back.

Yes, Bale now looks more likely to get a goal than Bergwijn looks to stop us from conceding. But that's a rather new development. Not that long ago people were talking about cutting the loan short, not because he was looking good, but not playing, but because he wasn't performing at a high enough level. Now he is performing at a higher level he's getting more game time. As it should be.

Claiming that Mourinho hates risk and saying that fans have been Mourinhoed because they hold an opinion someone disagrees with, an opinion that's existed way before Mourinho is far from spot on for me. This article seems to me like just a personal attack for the sake of it, made possible by our poor results and performances, but with little actual valid criticism.

Yes I think Mourinho is in a situation where if our performances and results don't turn around fairly quickly he'll be out the door btw.