Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[DubaiSpur]

I don't. Truth be told, no one can succeed with our ownership - no one. Sooner or later, they will fail, whether they are a young, eager coach like Poch or an old hand like Mourinho.

Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho.

All of them wanted some key players to help them implement their vision for the club. *None* of them got their first choices - all had to make do with bargain bin rubbish, and when we finally got a miracle worker in Poch, somehow the behaviour got even worse - not just tossing him useless bargain bins, but giving him *nothing*.

I expect Mourinho will build a passable system with whatever players have more mental strength than a fudging toothpick. But do I expect he will perform miracles with cast offs and bargain bins? No. And eventually he will be sacked, and the cycle begins anew with whatever poor fool agrees to work with ENIC's demand of miracles on a shoestring budget so dear old Levy and Lewis can cash out bigger cheques when they sell up - whenever that blessed day is.

To win, we don't need a new coach, we need new owners. Have done for years.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278823548384133125

There's one man responsible for this. It isn't Mourinho. It isn't this bunch of uncaring losers in our shirt.

This needs to be said. It isn't the coach. Sack him, and these problems remain. Ship out all these fools, and the same problems will eventually come back.

You've well and truly said it.....a thousand times.

 

[DeanoAustin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1278823548384133125

There's one man responsible for this. It isn't Mourinho. It isn't this bunch of uncaring losers in our shirt.

This needs to be said. It isn't the coach. Sack him, and these problems remain. Ship out all these fools, and the same problems will eventually come back.

I think looking at it in terms of fault and trying to metaphorically hang someone for it is the wrong approach. Football is cyclical and we’re on a downward cycle at the moment.

Now, could we be doing better? Undoubtedly, if Levy invested during those no purchase windows. That was a massive mistake to me then, it’s still massive now and it’s exacerbated an inevitable decaying of the squad. But, in his defence, it wasn’t a decision made in isolation. We were building a stadium where all his energy seemed to go. Still a rotten decision not to buy or get someone in to run the football side. But I wouldn’t hang him for it. There was a logic and strategy there and you’ve got to hope that it’s set us up to be even stronger when we get back on an upward trajectory. He seriously sacrificed the chance of short to medium term success by betting on our long term future. As painful as that is right now, and it burns me badly that we squandered our best squad and manager in my lifetime, I am hopeful that in 10-15 years I’ll look back and say Levy, overall, was right as he proved to be sacking Jol and Harry which fudged me off at the time. I do hope that he learns from his mistakes though and gives some priority to the short term.

Poch is certainly not to blame for this mess. Or at least he has little responsibility for it. He got dealt the bricktiest of hands and worked miracles for several seasons before making the hole that the club dug him even bigger through his frustration. I’d have given him the season through loyalty but he had to go for his own sake as much as ours by the end.

Jose certainly isn’t to blame. Right manager for us? Very doubtful but everyone knew what they were getting into (COVID notwithstanding). People saying he is a short term manager is fair enough but if you don’t have the players, and he doesn’t, it doesn’t matter how good a short term manager you are. I’d give him to end of next season minimum to see what he can do.

Im massively frustrated and disappointed at the moment. The man who was our club for me, Pochettino, is gone and we have a stale and decayed squad who is underperforming. But I see no need for a sacrificial lamb here. It’s not anyone’s incompetence that has us in this position. It’s a by product of the club strategy which could still set us up to be better in the longer term than we ever have been before. This is just the short term pain as well as the natural football cycle we have to endure to get there.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Now, could we be doing better? Undoubtedly, if Levy invested during those no purchase windows. That was a massive mistake to me then, it’s still massive now and it’s exacerbated an inevitable decaying of the squad.

Think I've explained in the Poch thread what the approach was during those lean times. (Basically money will only come from selling) However it's easy to say 'not buying anyone was a massive mistake' but that's does imply Levy chose to take that course, he could quite well explain to you (or provide the evidence) that at that time it was enforced action?

Blame is a great reconciler, and blaming a human is 'great' as you can really hate on them.

I don't think either man is much to blame. BOTH were trying their damn hardest to do the best for this club during a massively transitional time.

 

[Finney Is Back]

FWIW I think Levy would have seen the the faltering upward trajectory of Jose career but he had a gaping hole to fill when a much loved manager left. Jose being out of work was free to approach and free to get in. He's still a highly respected manager (rightly so) and with his refreshed recharged batteries demeanor....I'm sure Levy felt good about the appointment.

I think Levy is bound to stick with Jose for two reasons. 1. It will be expensive to pay him off 2. Jose is a massive name and respected and persuasive manager, when you have no European football, that charm and pull will be massive to get players to stay and also attract new players if we can muster some wheeling and dealing in the transfer market.

He was ‘free’ in that there was no compensation to pay. However his wages are huge. It would’ve been far cheaper to pay compensation and the lower wages for Ten Hag or Nagelsman for example. We now probably can’t afford to get rid of Mourinho, Levy has to back him in the market or we will sink fast.

 

[Dicko]

He was ‘free’ in that there was no compensation to pay. However his wages are huge. It would’ve been far cheaper to pay compensation and the lower wages for Ten Hag or Nagelsman for example. We now probably can’t afford to get rid of Mourinho, Levy has to back him in the market or we will sink fast.

I'm pretty sure Levy has accounted for the fact that by appointing Mourinho he would need to back him for the first couple of windows at least. If this window is a failure, or Jose's signings flop next season then thats when Levy might be sweating.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Think I've explained in the Poch thread what the approach was during those lean times. (Basically money will only come from selling) However it's easy to say 'not buying anyone was a massive mistake' but that's does imply Levy chose to take that course, he could quite well explain to you (or provide the evidence) that at that time it was enforced action?

Blame is a great reconciler, and blaming a human is 'great' as you can really hate on them.

I don't think either man is much to blame. BOTH were trying their damn hardest to do the best for this club during a massively transitional time.

I can understand how it didn’t happen. I think Levy took the cautious approach and there was sense in that. It wasn’t a coincidence that we didn’t spend during a time when we were undertaking a massive capital project. We put all our eggs in that basket in terms of resources. Or pretty much all of them. Maybe Poch could have bought but he wasn’t getting the resources he thought he needed. We were the only club since 2003 (the introduction of the summer window) not to sign a player. That says our ability to improve the team was sacrificed for the stadium build.

I can understand that but think it was wrong and a mistake. I said this at the time so this isn’t just hindsight. By not spending 60 or 70 million in those windows (less if we’d offloaded the deadwood at a lower price), we’d have likely secured CL football for the next few years which would have offset the spend. And the squad rebuild will have to happen eventually anyway and be more disruptive if it’s done all together rather than gradually. Speculate to accumulate. Levy decided against that and, who knows, we may not have got CL football anyway.

There was an increased level of risk associated with spending big at that point and Levy erred on the side of caution. I understand why he did it but I thought it was wrong then, I think it was more wrong now and I suspect in five years or ten years I’ll feel the same.

 

[harr1984]

I'm pretty sure Levy has accounted for the fact that by appointing Mourinho he would need to back him for the first couple of windows at least. If this window is a failure, or Jose's signings flop next season then thats when Levy might be sweating.

At the same time Mourinho would have had to accept that he is working under Levy and isn’t going to hand him 200m to spend. This would have quite obviously been discussed before Jose pen to paper, and they have known each other a long time so will probably understand each other and work together on this. My guess would be that Jose has some funds to spend,but will have to be more ‘creative’ than he usually is with his targets....

 

[Benny_Lad]

I don't. Truth be told, no one can succeed with our ownership - no one. Sooner or later, they will fail, whether they are a young, eager coach like Poch or an old hand like Mourinho.

Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho.

All of them wanted some key players to help them implement their vision for the club. *None* of them got their first choices - all had to make do with bargain bin rubbish, and when we finally got a miracle worker in Poch, somehow the behaviour got even worse - not just tossing him useless bargain bins, but giving him *nothing*.

I expect Mourinho will build a passable system with whatever players have more mental strength than a fudging toothpick. But do I expect he will perform miracles with cast offs and bargain bins? No. And eventually he will be sacked, and the cycle begins anew with whatever poor fool agrees to work with ENIC's demand of miracles on a shoestring budget so dear old Levy and Lewis can cash out bigger cheques when they sell up - whenever that blessed day is.

To win, we don't need a new coach, we need new owners. Have done for years.

Good post. So it makes the Jose appointment even more baffling - on £15m per year. Its looking more and more like Levy just went with him becuse, A. He's always wanted to get him in, and B. He honestly thought it would mean top 4 this season and a big trophy chance next season. For the latter to be true we are now sweating on qualifying for the Europa. Otherwise we are realistically down to the League Cup and the FA Cup and the latter is taken pretty seriously by the big boys now.

 

[Benny_Lad]

At the same time Mourinho would have had to accept that he is working under Levy and isn’t going to hand him 200m to spend. This would have quite obviously been discussed before Jose pen to paper, and they have known each other a long time so will probably understand each other and work together on this. My guess would be that Jose has some funds to spend,but will have to be more ‘creative’ than he usually is with his targets....

The quality is already on the move.

Talking to a friend about Chelsea. Pulisic looking excellent - straight in as Hazard's replacement. Then they are adding Ziyech and Werner. And will no doubt push hard for Chilwell and a CB to plug the weaker areas.

 

[elltrev]

I don't. Truth be told, no one can succeed with our ownership - no one. Sooner or later, they will fail, whether they are a young, eager coach like Poch or an old hand like Mourinho.

Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Poch, Mourinho.

All of them wanted some key players to help them implement their vision for the club. *None* of them got their first choices - all had to make do with bargain bin rubbish, and when we finally got a miracle worker in Poch, somehow the behaviour got even worse - not just tossing him useless bargain bins, but giving him *nothing*.

I expect Mourinho will build a passable system with whatever players have more mental strength than a fudging toothpick. But do I expect he will perform miracles with cast offs and bargain bins? No. And eventually he will be sacked, and the cycle begins anew with whatever poor fool agrees to work with ENIC's demand of miracles on a shoestring budget so dear old Levy and Lewis can cash out bigger cheques when they sell up - whenever that blessed day is.

To win, we don't need a new coach, we need new owners. Have done for years.

Is your view not affected at all by the fact that we’ve spent about £150m this season on Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Bergwijn?

Seems to me the plan (rightly or wrongly) was to get the stadium done, then loosen the purse strings for players.

 

[MKSpur]

Some nice reasoned posts on this page.

It’s hard not to dwell on the lack of investment over the period of the stadium development, from my part as we were told the development wouldn’t impact the budget (although our net spend had been 0 for quite a long time before this, which makes our performance and relative wage bill to other teams during this period a huge over achievement) I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that funds were available, but unless we know how much, what players were being suggested and what Poch and Levy had agreed before and after the window it’s hard to know exactly where the responsibility lies.
It was a bold move from Levy to sack the man who was not only a popular and successful manager, under constrained circumstances but also for the revenue our CL qualifications and runs brought into the coffers. The reasoning must have been that Mourinho would being an instant jolt that would get us back into the CL places, as many have suggested a rebuilding job even with our new revenues would not be something he is associated with. Although the nature of the appointment did smack a little of opportunism, especially with Emery under pressure but this was seen as a coup when Goons sacked Emery without an instant succession plan.
it’s still too early to write off the appointment, I am a little disappointed that we haven’t managed to at least become hard to beat and the enforced break and return of Kane and Son hasn’t given us a shot in the arm either.
My hopes are that an influx of defensive personnel, which Mourinho will have used his experience and contacts to identify, even without a blank cheque, and a pre season will give us the platform we need to deliver the results we crave. I’ve always believed attritional football is overlooked when it comes with results, which is what Levy has signed us up for.
Whilst I always like to remain optimistic and patient for as long as possible, I do hope that the negotiation with Jose on possible compensation was tempered by the fact that he did need us as we need him, as I do not see patience being extended beyond the new year if we do not look on course to be competing with top 4. And there is no reason why it should, Poch’s decline in results didn’t stop us achieving the financial holy grail in the last season he completed and November was the limit to the patience given for new signings to arrest the slide.

 

[Baleforce]

Good post. So it makes the Jose appointment even more baffling - on £15m per year. Its looking more and more like Levy just went with him becuse, A. He's always wanted to get him in, and B. He honestly thought it would mean top 4 this season and a big trophy chance next season. For the latter to be true we are now sweating on qualifying for the Europa. Otherwise we are realistically down to the League Cup and the FA Cup and the latter is taken pretty seriously by the big boys now.

Levy doesn’t do short term, it’s always about future strength.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Some nice reasoned posts on this page.

And there is no reason why it should, Poch’s decline in results didn’t stop us achieving the financial holy grail in the last season he completed and November was the limit to the patience given for new signings to arrest the slide.

And lets be honest. How much availability did he get from those signings....Jose has already had far more new blood to call on.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Is your view not affected at all by the fact that we’ve spent about £150m this season on Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Bergwijn?

Seems to me the plan (rightly or wrongly) was to get the stadium done, then loosen the purse strings for players.

No. They are clearly bargain bin rubbish. Levy doesn't buy anything else.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He was ‘free’ in that there was no compensation to pay. However his wages are huge. It would’ve been far cheaper to pay compensation and the lower wages for Ten Hag or Nagelsman for example. We now probably can’t afford to get rid of Mourinho, Levy has to back him in the market or we will sink fast.

You could be right but I'm just trying to understand the reasoning. It's not always what I would have done but if I can understand the reasoning/logic I'm not going to go batty about it.

The unpredictable curve ball that covid has thrown means backing him (and Jose's level of backing is quite high) looks unlikely. So that leaves us.......?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I can understand how it didn’t happen. I think Levy took the cautious approach and there was sense in that. It wasn’t a coincidence that we didn’t spend during a time when we were undertaking a massive capital project. We put all our eggs in that basket in terms of resources. Or pretty much all of them. Maybe Poch could have bought but he wasn’t getting the resources he thought he needed. We were the only club since 2003 (the introduction of the summer window) not to sign a player. That says our ability to improve the team was sacrificed for the stadium build.

I can understand that but think it was wrong and a mistake. I said this at the time so this isn’t just hindsight. By not spending 60 or 70 million in those windows (less if we’d offloaded the deadwood at a lower price), we’d have likely secured CL football for the next few years which would have offset the spend. And the squad rebuild will have to happen eventually anyway and be more disruptive if it’s done all together rather than gradually. Speculate to accumulate. Levy decided against that and, who knows, we may not have got CL football anyway.

There was an increased level of risk associated with spending big at that point and Levy erred on the side of caution. I understand why he did it but I thought it was wrong then, I think it was more wrong now and I suspect in five years or ten years I’ll feel the same.

You say you understand it but then go on and talk like it was a choice again. My point was perhaps it literally wasn't?

(I'm not saying it wasn't btw...just not willing to comment on something without knowing)

Read my post in the Poch thread for my understanding of the situation during that period.

 

[DeanoAustin]

No. They are clearly bargain bin rubbish. Levy doesn't buy anything else.

Thats unfair. GLC is class, Sessegnon is one of the most highly rated English youngsters out there, Ndombele came with a massive reputation for his talent. Bergwijn was unknown but he’s been pretty good.

The problem for me is none of these players play in the positions that most needed bolstering (RB, LB, CB, DM). They aren’t bargain basement signings.

 

[DeanoAustin]

You say you understand it but then go on and talk like it was a choice again. My point was perhaps it literally wasn't?

(I'm not saying it wasn't btw...just not willing to comment on something without knowing)

Read my post in the Poch thread for my understanding of the situation during that period.

Ah gotcha. I don’t believe it was enforced. I believe that it was Levy’s choice based on the level of risk involved. Will go take a look at the post.

 

[harr1984]

Thats unfair. GLC is class, Sessegnon is one of the most highly rated English youngsters out there, Ndombele came with a massive reputation for his talent. Bergwijn was unknown but he’s been pretty good.

The problem for me is none of these players play in the positions that most needed bolstering (RB, LB, CB, DM). They aren’t bargain basement signings.

I assume sarcasm is lost on you in the internet world....