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Hugo Lloris

Well just my opinion but I think he's in good form. No he hasn't kept a clean sheet, but that doesn't prove he's not playing well.

I want to see Lloris just as much as you and am not a Friedel lover but do think he's playing well and don't think Lloris warrants starting yet. When did Brad last cost us a load of points like Gomes?

We'll all wonder what this debate was about in a matter of months, Lloris will force his way in no doubt.....
 
i know what you mean but it would get divisive simply because people may or may not feel that one is treated and judged unfairly in comparison with another. there was a topic on something like that a few months ago which was a pretty big one here....its still simmering under the surface that one so will come back at some point

but take this one into account. alot of people last season were pretty vocal in that brad was one of our better most consistent guys. fast forward to people seeing us buy a 'first world marketed' goalkeeper and all of a sudden brad is all at fault for a majority of our goals because allegedly he 'never come off his line'. was this criticism there last season in a big way? no it wasnt, at least i dont think it was.

people's memories are very short to me, someone who never came off his line was paul robinson and that only came about when his confidence was butchered...before that he was okay. Brad friedel is not nearly as bad as robinson was just before he left us....brad isnt schemichel but then again who is....not everyone can do everything well..otherwise you would be the best. or close to

its even gotten to the point where people rate brad and lloris differently...on different critteria. so they both play the same position but they get marked on different things. a few people have rated lloris' performance against lazio on anything his actual performance.....his duties took a back seat to him being lloris and that it was his first game. Brad however is marked on every little thing that people can find...and he's actually marked down first and then marked up on only the stuff that "wows" the crowd...if lloris comes out to catch the ball for an uncontested cross..that counts in his favour. that doesnt count in brads favour.....yep he saved shots...but they were 'near him'....no points for that.

of course its going to be divisive, and of course people are going to be seen as haters. how can you not be seen as a hater when you are unfair to one person and go easy on the other guy?

and this thing about coming off your line....it makes it seem like the box is clear of obstacles...is there even a clear line of path / sight to the ball coming at pace at various trajectories? we've seen what thats like with gomes. i didnt like it. thought it was the better option that robinson

p.s:- YOU are not a hater btw, wasnt talking about you. plus if you rate lloris over brad that's cool...people are allowed to do so. i rate mayuka as the best striker in the world. cant believe rickie lambert is playing ahead of him

on this lloris v freidel thing i can see both sides.....the side that want to new signing to play because of the aura surrounding him, his pedigree, the money invested and the mystique of a new young signing against an older one.....and i understand those that want the guy with the gun to shoot blindly first before putting him in an old people's home; brads playing well right now (heh actually another misconception,.... he ALWAYS plays to this level. ) and shouldnt be rewarded with the bench for no good reason. it shows that hard work and performances count for nothing...just reputation and ego

You've hit he tickle my balls with a feather IMO. I don't know much about Lloris to be honest, he may well be a great keeper or completely over rated. I simply don't know. What irks me is how certain posters (who have previous form on this generally for other players/managers) have complete double standards when it comes to judging another individual.

I think it's pretty clear Lloris will be the future (at least for a couple of seasons), and I doubt there is a single Spurs fan out there who wants him to be a failure! We almost all want him to be a roaring success.
 
You've hit he tickle my balls with a feather IMO. I don't know much about Lloris to be honest, he may well be a great keeper or completely over rated. I simply don't know. What irks me is how certain posters (who have previous form on this generally for other players/managers) have complete double standards when it comes to judging another individual.

I think it's pretty clear Lloris will be the future (at least for a couple of seasons), and I doubt there is a single Spurs fan out there who wants him to be a failure! We almost all want him to be a roaring success.

Which Spurs supporter doesnt want Lloris to be a roaring success?
 
How is Brad in form? Or more over - what form is he in? He hasn't kept a single clean sheet this season and averaged over 1 goal per game?

He's done an ok job and nothing more - so why not give a chance to someone superior to prove himself.

Should we wait for Brad to cost us games before we decide to make the switch?

The Brad 'lovers' are not different to the 'haters', imv

Billy you see why these posts are directed at Arcspace?
 
Is anyone doubting Lloris though? Don't see how saying Brad's the man in form and therefore should remain first choice until he dips in form should equate to that.

African is correct about the Friedel/lloris ratings, it was cringeworthy reading some people's assessments of Lloris' Lazio performance. He had sod all to do, and had that been Brad he would have definitely got a worse mark - I dont care that it was his debut and doesn't properly know his team mates he didn't have anything to do bar a couple of nice passes and watch the ball hit the crossbar....

Re the Lloris ratings - had he been installed as number one from the off and still been given good ratings by some for the Lazio game would it still have been cringeworthy? I think because of the comparrison to Friedels ratings it has taken on a new meaning for some, maybe they are looking for something that isn't there?. A new signing playing his first few games and looking comfortable will naturally get more posivity than an established player who puts in a 'standard' performance, i don't think it's down to anything mire than that.
 
Nope, have you?

How is he meant to be' integrated' into the squad a get an 'understanding of his defence' is he's not playing? I thought last night was a brilliant opportunity for that, yet we saw a guy who appears not to be part of any long terms plans and will probably leave (along with Gomes) in January.

Unless he was injured - I found it very, very strange to see Lloris left out last night. Unless of couse he's planning to start him at Old Trafford.
No I haven't which is why I trust AVB's judgement on the issue as he certainly knows more than me.

You pretty much answered your own question there, we don't know if there was anything wrong with Lloris - so there is no point commenting on it at this time. And he doesn't have to play every game to get an understanding of those around him and the culture of the club - he can do that in training as well, you know. Look at Sandro, wasn't thrown into the deep end and was kept in reserve. Once he was introduced he looked very composed and intelligent.

Let's not forget that Lloris didn't have a proper pre-season at the club, he was signed on the last day of the window.
 
i cant stress how wrong it sounds to say that your goal keeper is averaging over a goal a game ...in the negative.

Worst philosophy of team ethic you can put out there to an individual or to a collective.

"it is YOUR fault we conceed goals"
 
i cant stress how wrong it sounds to say that your goal keeper is averaging over a goal a game ...in the negative.

Worst philosophy of team ethic you can put out there to an individual or to a collective.

"it is YOUR fault we conceed goals"
Not like we have 10 other players on the field that account for goals conceded. Buffon conceded two goals the other week that he could do nothing about.

In fact, some coaches will say that the first priority of an attacker is to defend.
 
Do you think Brads massive record of not missing a game for a zillion years effects any decision? I don't mean solely (that's just crazy) but is there even a small thinking that says after a massive run of games it's only fair to wait for a couple of poorer games to help justify the decision?

Even though everyone is fine with Lloris being the future, say if came in now and had even a slightly patchy start would people make even more of a fuss of dropping Brad than if we currently had Cudicini in goal playing well for say the last 10 games for example?
 
Re the Lloris ratings - had he been installed as number one from the off and still been given good ratings by some for the Lazio game would it still have been cringeworthy? I think because of the comparrison to Friedels ratings it has taken on a new meaning for some, maybe they are looking for something that isn't there?. A new signing playing his first few games and looking comfortable will naturally get more posivity than an established player who puts in a 'standard' performance, i don't think it's down to anything mire than that.

i think an 8 for any goal keeper in that lazio game where practically nothing noteworthy was done deserves some level of enquiry.

But yes, the harsher rating on Brad and the incredibly dubious positive rating on lloris...not to mention that clean sheet thing in a game where the opposition havent said boo to us......is certainly showing that there are people that are not fair. when someone is not fair you tend to get people defending the injured party

has brad done alot wrong? does he deserve to lose his shirt based on his performances? are al the goals primarily his fault in isolation? does he deserve to be judged on a higher criteria than someone else and have the scores compared directly and not standardised?

at some point you have to ask if people are just making stuff up.
 
No I haven't which is why I trust AVB's judgement on the issue as he certainly knows more than me.

You pretty much answered your own question there, we don't know if there was anything wrong with Lloris - so there is no point commenting on it at this time. And he doesn't have to play every game to get an understanding of those around him and the culture of the club - he can do that in training as well, you know. Look at Sandro, wasn't thrown into the deep end and was kept in reserve. Once he was introduced he looked very composed and intelligent.

Let's not forget that Lloris didn't have a proper pre-season at the club, he was signed on the last day of the window.

Sandro came from South America and couldn't speak much English. He had also finished playing many games at the time and needed some rest. Even so - Lloris hasn't played any reserves games anyway (those don't even exist anymore) and has 302 senior appearances to date. Sandro had none in Europe.

Lloris has already looked good (composed and intelligent if you wish) against Lazio. As for integration via training, etc. - for me nothing can be substituted for actual game time, not even close.

I trust Avi B and would continue to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one but time is coming close for the inevitable to take place. Brad is a reliable above average keeper. Lloris is simpy better. I'm not sure why Brad or any of Brad's supporters find this offensive - it's simply a natural turn of events at any club. Superior player arrives - removes existing player from spot - fans appreciate the change in quality = cycle continues
 
Not like we have 10 other players on the field that account for goals conceded. Buffon conceded two goals the other week that he could do nothing about.

In fact, some coaches will say that the first priority of an attacker is to defend.

i'm still trying to get my head around the idea that people believe that Brad is an island in the goals conceded bracket. its weird to think that in a TEAM where everyone performs their role to get a collective result that someone could then be separated from said collective at the drop of a hat.

agreed with the attackers thing btw...first line of defense an all that
 
i think an 8 for any goal keeper in that lazio game where practically nothing noteworthy was done deserves some level of enquiry.

But yes, the harsher rating on Brad and the incredibly dubious positive rating on lloris...not to mention that clean sheet thing in a game where the opposition havent said boo to us......is certainly showing that there are people that are not fair. when someone is not fair you tend to get people defending the injured party

has brad done alot wrong? does he deserve to lose his shirt based on his performances? are al the goals primarily his fault in isolation? does he deserve to be judged on a higher criteria than someone else and have the scores compared directly and not standardised?

at some point you have to ask if people are just making stuff up.

Thanks for that.

When someone clearly isn't being fair then it's impossible to have a reasoned debate, thus you have to link the so solid crew classic 'haters' to describe what you're feeling.
 
Note to self - statistics are only valid if they re-inforce one's opinion

If they prove the same opinion wrong = dismiss as heresy
 
Thanks for that.

When someone clearly isn't being fair then it's impossible to have a reasoned debate, thus you have to link the so solid crew classic 'haters' to describe what you're feeling.

'Fair' in your opinion.

As for 'reasoned debate' - you asked me to explain my ratings, I did so in detail, you didn't like the answer and continued with some 'haters' videos

?
 
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Do you think Brads massive record of not missing a game for a zillion years effects any decision? I don't mean solely (that's just crazy) but is there even a small thinking that says after a massive run of games it's only fair to wait for a couple of poorer games to help justify the decision?

Even though everyone is fine with Lloris being the future, say if came in now and had even a slightly patchy start would people make even more of a fuss of dropping Brad than if we currently had Cudicini in goal playing well for say the last 10 games for example?

this is actually a good question right here.

whats happening is a slow undertone of potential animosity that could be building towards our new goalie

say he starts at united. money says that, .....barring him stealing the ball from his own team mate and walking the ball into his own goal..., nothing he does will come under scrutiny by one group...(excuses will be made , fingers pointed at other people and somehow gutter boy will find a way of blaming defoe for the goal conceded) and the other group will look at EVERYTHING he does and scrutinise it...( why didnt that mother fudger pick that ball up out of the air 100 feet high kicked beyond row Z? why didnt he nutmeg the whole united team and get an assist)..

,....and then the final bits would be..one side saying "brad would have done worse" and the other saying "brad would have done better"

exciting times when we put pressure on our players i must say.

incidentally i will say this also........i think a fair few people dont want 'their guy' playing at united this weekend. LOL LOL LOL

what way to prove your point than to get have your guy bitch slapped by a rooney and RVP combo LOL
 
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