IulianSteaua
Jose Dominguez
My thoughts exactly ...
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How long will it take for this team to gel?
- Thread starter milo
- Start date
Holsten76
Calum Davenport
Kingdawson
Banned
Dembele doesn't get involved?:lol::ross:
He doesn't hide like bottle job Paulinho(Jenas). The man that you can literally see shaking when he has possession of the ball because he's utterly clueless at passing and can't seem to do much else. The way his game is identical to Jenas is frightening.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Worth reading back over people wetting themselves over getting him in during the summer - http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/4447-Paulinho-José-Paulo-Bezerra-Maciel-Júnior/
Kingdawson
Banned
Jenas better than Paulinho:ross:
What's funny?
In Jenas first season didn't he score 8 or so goals? he like Paulinho offered didly squat in terms of general play but unlike Paulinho actually scored goals to justify his place in the team. In fact they're alarmingly similar:
1) They bottle challenges
2) They can't pass for **** (at least Jenas could pass 5 yards to his teammate)
3) They don't get involved in general play and go missing for large chunks of a game
4) The best attribute they possess is the ability to bomb forward
The difference is one's name is Paulinho and he's brazilian and the other is Jermaine jenas from England so naturally from that alone Paulinho is the superior player to some.
Kingdawson
Banned
hyperbolic in your opinion but yes i will keep it in the Paulinho thread.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Yep that's my read on Dembele too. I still he think he is potentially our best midfielder if he could just add that quick release or shot when he skips by a man.
I agree that when he came on against city he played great, just the way I would like to see him play in every match. It might even have been a bit of 'hey Andre look what I do if you let me' type performance as it was just like the Dembele we first signed. That's why I wonder if the players are playing under so much instruction now as to be 2nd guessing everything they do on the pitch. I can see how that could easily translate into our laborious build up play. Andre needs to give some of these players their head or we'll never see the best of them.
The problem with the question asked in this thread is that it all comes down to tactics - the way AVB wants to team to play at the moment doesnt remotely suit our players so its hard for them to gel. Two years ago with Modric and VDV we could have played this way, now we cant
His current approach of securing possession and then slowly building up requires you to have at least one, preferably two, clever ball playing midfielders and at least one or two similarly minded attackers - this is simply because the slow build up inevitably means that the opposition regroups and you then have to get through 10 players to create a decent chance. However our 4 CMs comprise two defensive CMs (not great on the ball), one box to box CM (ditto) and Dembele who, whilst more comfortable on the ball that the other three, is more of a dribbler rather than a one touch, incisive passer.
Up front its a little better however out of our 'clever' players, Eriksen and Lamela havent yet settled and Siggy isnt suited to playing on the left in the 4-2-3-1 formation. AVB compounds the issue by playing Holtby in the no 10 role who is a workmanlike type player rather than someone who's going to unpick a tight defence - we therefore end up with effectively 3 CMs who cant split a defence, two guys playing wide (so a long way from the box) and Soldado on his lonesome with no-one with 20-30 yards from him!
Instead of having players to suit these tactics, we have a decent amount of pace in players like Lennon, Townsend and Walker, none of whom are suited to getting through a congested, organised defence. With the squad we have, we'd be better attacking quicker or playing on the counter, with the two CMs and two CBs providing the base of the team and then Walker/Rose flying up from full back supporting the two wingers and two CFs (or one CF and one no 10).
I like AVB but his tactics dont suit the squad and if he doesnt change this very very soon I think he'll be gone by Jan. I just cant see us breaking our appalling scorign record of 6 goals from open play in 12 games if he perseveres with these tactics
His current approach of securing possession and then slowly building up requires you to have at least one, preferably two, clever ball playing midfielders and at least one or two similarly minded attackers - this is simply because the slow build up inevitably means that the opposition regroups and you then have to get through 10 players to create a decent chance. However our 4 CMs comprise two defensive CMs (not great on the ball), one box to box CM (ditto) and Dembele who, whilst more comfortable on the ball that the other three, is more of a dribbler rather than a one touch, incisive passer.
Up front its a little better however out of our 'clever' players, Eriksen and Lamela havent yet settled and Siggy isnt suited to playing on the left in the 4-2-3-1 formation. AVB compounds the issue by playing Holtby in the no 10 role who is a workmanlike type player rather than someone who's going to unpick a tight defence - we therefore end up with effectively 3 CMs who cant split a defence, two guys playing wide (so a long way from the box) and Soldado on his lonesome with no-one with 20-30 yards from him!
Instead of having players to suit these tactics, we have a decent amount of pace in players like Lennon, Townsend and Walker, none of whom are suited to getting through a congested, organised defence. With the squad we have, we'd be better attacking quicker or playing on the counter, with the two CMs and two CBs providing the base of the team and then Walker/Rose flying up from full back supporting the two wingers and two CFs (or one CF and one no 10).
I like AVB but his tactics dont suit the squad and if he doesnt change this very very soon I think he'll be gone by Jan. I just cant see us breaking our appalling scorign record of 6 goals from open play in 12 games if he perseveres with these tactics
King of Norway
Gudni Bergsson
Why don't we just have one big thread called "football"?
Armchair Expert
Vedran Corluka
Very good post. I completely agree.
You know what? It's tempting just to stop people asking that ****ing question.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Yes you have the snail on the head. Time for Andre to go back to the drawing board.
In saying that even what we are witnessing now could be so much more effective if our movement and patterns of play around the box where better. All teams come up against a box full of players on occasion and manage to carve out chances. Our lack of movement in and around the box means we are easily nullified. Soldado does make runs but he is more than often a lone player in a sea of opposition defenders. Teams like Barca and Arsenal face massed defences all the time but their constant motion makes them harder to defend against and they have their moments of brilliance every now and then too. We just seem to be relying on moments of brilliance and have nothing else when that doesn't work.
ledley's knee injections
Sean Davis
I'm on the side of AVB... but this is an excellent point.
In this system I think we need, minimum:
- a deep-lying playmaker who sees balls early, and play the ball early (just like Alonso or Modric or Carrick do). Only Capoue at present sees these passes (and makes them) but he is NOT a deep-lying playemarker
- a creative no. 10 (we potentially have this in Eriksen, but he's still settling in, and is injured atm - whereas it's becoming more clear to me that I don't think Holtby is this),
- an effective, creative, one-touch incisive passer who also scores goals as part of an attacking front 3 (a rare breed of player... Siggy is not really this.. Lennon and Townsend ain't this). The great hope is Lamela although I'm not sure he'll really be the creative whiz we need, but he can tick a lot of the bases.
- a striker who can play on his own in a 4-3-3-. Soldado could maybe do this at a stretch if we had ALL of the above, but really we need a fit and firing Adebayor (he's our only option based on current personnel) or a new striker, the type that don't really grow on trees when you're talkinng about the margins we're at.
What I've just typed form the basis of why I don't agree with this argument pedalled by a lot of the AVB haters who are saying: "he has the players for his system". I do think he's at the critical juncture in terms of his tactics and system: all great coaches have an element of stubbornness in respect to their style of football... but I do think based on our current squad if AVB doesn't adapt, there is a very big question as to whether we're gonna improve.
I don't think we've played as badly as some people think this season, but no doubt we need to be a lot better. In theory as we integrate Eriksen and Lamela this should improve, but every single team in the league understands how Spurs are struggling by now. They are gonna keep setting up the way they have been, and without the players required for this system or the required tactical adaptation, I'm not sure if we're gonna improve to the level we need...
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
I guess AVB is just going to have to accept the fact that Levy / Baldini couldn't secure the signatures of Moutinho, Willian plus Villa and thus adapt his system accordingly. As our current squad doesn't seem suited to his preferred tactics and so it's somewhat understandable that the likes of Soldado appear less inclined to make incisive runs the longer they play for us when they know that there's little likelihood of someone playing a defence splitting through ball for him to latch onto.
Lamela is starting to show glimpses of his talent but clearly needs time, as does Eriksen especially after his injury set back. Hopefully they'll be key members of the first team before the end of this season but we still lack a Moutinho / Modric to really make this possession based game truly effective. Perhaps Tom Carroll should be recalled and given a chance.
Lamela is starting to show glimpses of his talent but clearly needs time, as does Eriksen especially after his injury set back. Hopefully they'll be key members of the first team before the end of this season but we still lack a Moutinho / Modric to really make this possession based game truly effective. Perhaps Tom Carroll should be recalled and given a chance.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
When we played Woolwich early in the season, I instantly wrote the game off as I new it was too soon to expect a team with at least 4 new players to form an understanding so no complaints at all about the result. I even expected us to look a little uneven in the next 10 games or so, but kind of expected us to win more often than not. People have pointed out that we only lay a few points from the top 4, which is fair enough, doesn't take into account the performances, but it's still fair enough.
Can't remember who it was but someone said we should write this season off as well. Complete nonsense. 10 games? Yes. Until Xmas? Again it's not unfair to do so, but a entire season? No, when you spend over £100m you expect the team at the very least to be at the same level as the previous campaign or improve, not to get worse. If we finish 5th and it looks like we are heading in the right direction (by that I mean creating chances and perhaps being unlucky or poor finishing costing us similar to what was happening with Liverpool the past couple of seasons and virtually the same points total as last season) then I would say AVB deserves another season. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in asking for that.
Can't remember who it was but someone said we should write this season off as well. Complete nonsense. 10 games? Yes. Until Xmas? Again it's not unfair to do so, but a entire season? No, when you spend over £100m you expect the team at the very least to be at the same level as the previous campaign or improve, not to get worse. If we finish 5th and it looks like we are heading in the right direction (by that I mean creating chances and perhaps being unlucky or poor finishing costing us similar to what was happening with Liverpool the past couple of seasons and virtually the same points total as last season) then I would say AVB deserves another season. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in asking for that.
Nice cherry picking of info.
For a more accurate assessment try replacing it with "When you sell one of the best players in the world and replace him with a handful of players, none of whom have ever played in the PL before".
Carroll hasn't featured for QPR since 5th October. Probably injured as he hasn't even been on the bench.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
It is really starting to **** me off, the constant 'we spent 100M' line.
Didn't we actually end up in profit on summer trading this year? We certainly weren't far off if we didn't. We sold players like Parker, Dempsey and Huddlestone who won't have ever moved us up a level but would have nicely maintained a 'best of the rest challenge'. If we kept those guys we wouldn't have had as bad a start but I'm 100% towards the end of the season and beyond we would have been found out.
We sell one of the best players in the world and replace him with inexperience and a lack of understanding of this country. It is almost guaranteed there would be an adjustment period. It's surprising it didn't show up sooner.
