How long will it take for this team to gel?

[scaramanga]

The system and tactics wont work because we dont ahve the players to make it work. As per my long-ish (for me) post on p5 of this thread, the slow build up doesnt suit our players because we dont ahve the CMs to unpick defences. I cant see AVB changing his tactics though so I really struggle to see how things will pick up, unless we sign a CM who can pass in January

What if that is the plan?

Get by as well as we can until we've bought a CM or two? In which case the plan will work, it just isn't currently.

 

[Dicko]

The system and tactics wont work because we dont ahve the players to make it work. As per my long-ish (for me) post on p5 of this thread, the slow build up doesnt suit our players because we dont ahve the CMs to unpick defences. I cant see AVB changing his tactics though so I really struggle to see how things will pick up, unless we sign a CM who can pass in January

How's Moutinho been doing lately

 

[Hootnow]

What if that is the plan?

Get by as well as we can until we've bought a CM or two? In which case the plan will work, it just isn't currently.

Wait, what? 3 of the 4 cms at the club were bought by AVB, how many more cms does he want? All the other players who can play cm at the club were also bought by AVB. Other than moutinho, he hasn't gone for a ball playing cm in his time here. And it shows incredibly poor planning to have moutinho as number 2 choice and then spectacularly different players as back up choices.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Wait, what? 3 of the 4 cms at the club were bought by AVB, how many more cms does he want? All the other players who can play cm at the club were also bought by AVB. Other than moutinho, he hasn't gone for a ball playing cm in his time here. And it shows incredibly poor planning to have moutinho as number 2 choice and then spectacularly different players as back up choices.

Exactly, we have the players now to do exactly as avb wants because they are his players no other way to view it.

If he thinks suddenly that we need more passing based midfielders then it shows he massively misunderstood what was needed in this league after a season and a half coaching in it and a few years as a scout in it. That is very worrying. Think if that was the case then he will mostly differently have lost the trust of levy and the board.

 

[Gutter Boy]

From the Guardian article comes the rumour that the players want to try a 442 (I wonder what Holtby has to say about it) and he did that for 15 minutes on Sunday. The players are idiots though. 442? Luddites! Maybe Defoe has a lot of influence in the dressing room

Doesn't make sense. None of our front 6, other than maybe Lennon, has any history of playing in a 4-4-2.

 

[milo]

Exactly, we have the players now to do exactly as avb wants because they are his players no other way to view it.

If he thinks suddenly that we need more passing based midfielders then it shows he massively misunderstood what was needed in this league after a season and a half coaching in it and a few years as a scout in it. That is very worrying. Think if that was the case then he will mostly differently have lost the trust of levy and the board.

Or that suitable players of that kind were not available in our price range. It is clear that the best passer of the four has also been injured for most of the season.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Or that suitable players of that kind were not available in our price range. It is clear that the best passer of the four has also been injured for most of the season.

Im not buying that milo because he would have more then one man to play that "role" it is not avb's style of play. Like it or not or think it is good or not his style of play is squash the midfield with big players and make sure you do not lose much ground. If avb cared for passing players he would not have good rid of huddlestone and carroll. I appreciate carroll is young and needs a loan and hudd had come to the end with us, but he replaced them with very different players.

This (how we are playing) is avb's style of play.

I would give him to the end of the season while we look for a proper coach but i have lost all faith with him, looking back the warning signs were there last season in home games against fulham, everton, norwich, west brom, wigan.

 

[Hootnow]

Or that suitable players of that kind were not available in our price range. It is clear that the best passer of the four has also been injured for most of the season.

You cannot compare Capoue's passing range to that of Modric, Moutinho or any of these other ball playing cms that AVB apparently has a penchant for (while simultaneously going for powerful cms whose passing ability is far less).

And even if we were to say that Capoue is on their level when it comes to passing, how can AVB have decided that it was ok to go into the season with only 1 of this type of player, when the system he wants to play is apparently just such a player away from clicking and blowing everyone away. Seems like a rather strange decision to have the position that the whole system relies on staffed with only 1 player.

We spent 26 million and 30 million on 2 different players this summer. 17 million on another. Let's throw the price range excuse out of the window please.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

You cannot compare Capoue's passing range to that of Modric, Moutinho or any of these other ball playing cms that AVB apparently has a penchant for (while simultaneously going for powerful cms whose passing ability is far less).

We spent 26 million and 30 million on 2 different players this summer. 17 million on another. Let's throw the price range excuse out of the window please.

What he said.

 

[Craig_J]

We're playing like we've got Lloris in goal and then 5 Lampads and 5 Gerards.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think we are one midfielder away from clicking. I think if AVB wanted another Tom Carroll type for instance, he would have brought them in. I just think we will click eventually once the squad settles and gels together. And they won't be prevented from clicking because 'the pressing compresses the play' or any such thing, when it is vital to the strategy we are carrying out.

I did wonder whether the players would be frustrated with the system because it didn't look easy for them, but then it hit me. They are happy with it because it helps them. Something like the Emirates Marketing Project game at home last year is a prime example of why it works. We picked them off in short bursts and carried it out to perfection. The system helped the players and I would venture that this year they still buy into the fact that it benefits them rather than hinders them. Anyway this is probably for the 'performances over a season' thread

 

[scaramanga]

Wait, what? 3 of the 4 cms at the club were bought by AVB, how many more cms does he want? All the other players who can play cm at the club were also bought by AVB. Other than moutinho, he hasn't gone for a ball playing cm in his time here. And it shows incredibly poor planning to have moutinho as number 2 choice and then spectacularly different players as back up choices.

Firstly I'm not convinced it is the case that he's waiting for the right player, I was merely pointing out how certain statements along the lines of "it will not work" are wide of the mark until we know all of (or st least far more of) the facts.

If it is the case, then I assume AVB isn't planning on leaving the midfield entirely vacated whilst waiting for the right player. Nor, I suspect, does he want us short on cover.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk

 

[Modric THFC]

Firstly I'm not convinced it is the case that he's waiting for the right player, I was merely pointing out how certain statements along the lines of "it will not work" are wide of the mark until we know all of (or st least far more of) the facts.

If it is the case, then I assume AVB isn't planning on leaving the midfield entirely vacated whilst waiting for the right player. Nor, I suspect, does he want us short on cover.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk

Spot on. If Moutinho had of been available again I've no doubt we would have been in for him. I think it was a case that Paulinho and Capoue were seen as good value signings as much as anything when we bought them.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I don't think we are one midfielder away from clicking. I think if AVB wanted another Tom Carroll type for instance, he would have brought them in. I just think we will click eventually once the squad settles and gels together. And they won't be prevented from clicking because 'the pressing compresses the play' or any such thing, when it is vital to the strategy we are carrying out.

I did wonder whether the players would be frustrated with the system because it didn't look easy for them, but then it hit me. They are happy with it because it helps them. Something like the Emirates Marketing Project game at home last year is a prime example of why it works. We picked them off in short bursts and carried it out to perfection. The system helped the players and I would venture that this year they still buy into the fact that it benefits them rather than hinders them. Anyway this is probably for the 'performances over a season' thread

You mean the Emirates Marketing Project game where we were losing 0-1 when playing 4-2-3-1 but then, on the hour, AVB took a chance and brought on Huddleston plus Holtby into central midfield and switched to 4-3-3 which lead to a much improved passing tempo and resulted in us scoring 3 goals in 7 minutes as both of them got assists :-k

 

[BrainOfLevy]

You mean the Emirates Marketing Project game where we were losing 0-1 when playing 4-2-3-1 but then, on the hour, AVB took a chance and brought on Huddleston plus Holtby into central midfield and switched to 4-3-3 which lead to us scoring 3 goals in 7 minutes as both of them got assists :-k

Yes, exactly.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Yes, exactly.

So why has AVB been so reluctant to utilise 4-3-3 this season even when we have been been over-run in midfield (like the 2nd half against Chelsea) or used Holtby in centre midfield to improve our passing tempo when we have been struggling to carve open teams (as we have several times this season)?

 

[milo]

So why has AVB been so reluctant to utilise 4-3-3 this season even when we have been been over-run in midfield (like the 2nd half against Chelsea) or used Holtby in centre midfield to improve our passing tempo when we have been struggling to carve open teams (as we have several times this season)?

It could be quite easily argued that the two systems are not that dissimilar especially when Holtby is dropping deep looking for the ball

 

[Hootnow]

Spot on. If Moutinho had of been available again I've no doubt we would have been in for him. I think it was a case that Paulinho and Capoue were seen as good value signings as much as anything when we bought them.

Good value signings? Paulinho was 17 million, our record signing at the time. What are we, Chelsea?

We spent almost £30 million transfer fee on those two. That is not small change and not something we can afford as a 'stop gap' while AVB messes around and waits for the next opportunity to sign Moutinho or a similar player.

As I said, if Moutinho or a player of a smiliar ilk is apparently so important to the system, to miss out on him and then purchase 3 completely different styles of midfielder, leaving us with 4 cms, none of whom are particularly skilled on the ball, is bonkers.

It is akin to needing a target man up front for your system to work, failing to get him and then bidding 12 million on Defoe. May be a good player in his own right but if the target man is genuinely that important to your system, you get some kind of target man, rather than a different style of player.

Now, this is all assuming that the problem is solely down to one ball playing cm, which I think is complete nonsense. Our attacking problems are far deeper than just one player.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Good value signings? Paulinho was 17 million, our record signing at the time. What are we, Chelsea?

We spent almost £30 million transfer fee on those two. That is not small change and not something we can afford as a 'stop gap' while AVB messes around and waits for the next opportunity to sign Moutinho or a similar player.

As I said, if Moutinho or a player of a smiliar ilk is apparently so important to the system, to miss out on him and then purchase 3 completely different styles of midfielder, leaving us with 4 cms, none of whom are particularly skilled on the ball, is bonkers.

It is akin to needing a target man up front for your system to work, failing to get him and then bidding 12 million on Defoe. May be a good player in his own right but if the target man is genuinely that important to your system, you get some kind of target man, rather than a different style of player.

Now, this is all assuming that the problem is solely down to one ball playing cm, which I think is complete nonsense. Our attacking problems are far deeper than just one player.

Missing out on Moutinho wasn't AVB's fault, in fact I felt sorry for him because I don't think Levy did enough to back him in that window. But surely he had the chance to put that right during the last window and sign a similar type player?

Think he did the right thing getting rid of Hudd, but I feel we should stuck with Carroll, even if he only played in Europe.

I do think Paulinho will come good eventually, most Brazilians take at least a season to come good, Ramires is certainly a better player today than he was when he first came to England. Hell we only have to look at Sandro for another example.

 

[Baleforce]

The market is ****ed now though, 15m used to get you Alan Shearer or Luka Modric, those players go for 40m minimum now, Paulinho was cheap, if it works out he'll be an absolute steal at 17m.