How long will it take for this team to gel?

[Hootnow]

I don't think the Moutinho thing is his fault at all. Once we'd gone to the edge with it, Levy needed to just say **** it and finish off the deal.

I'm also not criticising Paulinho. He's come to a foreign country in a superior league and we're not playing well. He was unlikely to shine from the beginning.

What I was criticising was the argument amongst some that AVB only needs to find that extra special cm or 2 to get the whole thing rolling. He's spent over 40 million on the 3 cms he has bought, that's given him some chance to bring in the kind of player he wants.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think the Moutinho thing is his fault at all. Once we'd gone to the edge with it, Levy needed to just say **** it and finish off the deal.

I'm also not criticising Paulinho. He's come to a foreign country in a superior league and we're not playing well. He was unlikely to shine from the beginning.

What I was criticising was the argument amongst some that AVB only needs to find that extra special cm or 2 to get the whole thing rolling. He's spent over 40 million on the 3 cms he has bought, that's given him some chance to bring in the kind of player he wants.

Yeah I agree.

 

[Modric THFC]

Good value signings? Paulinho was 17 million, our record signing at the time. What are we, Chelsea?

We spent almost £30 million transfer fee on those two. That is not small change and not something we can afford as a 'stop gap' while AVB messes around and waits for the next opportunity to sign Moutinho or a similar player.

As I said, if Moutinho or a player of a smiliar ilk is apparently so important to the system, to miss out on him and then purchase 3 completely different styles of midfielder, leaving us with 4 cms, none of whom are particularly skilled on the ball, is bonkers.

It is akin to needing a target man up front for your system to work, failing to get him and then bidding 12 million on Defoe. May be a good player in his own right but if the target man is genuinely that important to your system, you get some kind of target man, rather than a different style of player.

Now, this is all assuming that the problem is solely down to one ball playing cm, which I think is complete nonsense. Our attacking problems are far deeper than just one player.

But its just what we do. We're stockpiling young technical players who seem like good value at the time and that have no obvious position in the team when we buy them. The likes of Siggy, Holtby, Chadli, Eriksen. I don't think Paulinho or Capoue were bought with any great plan in mind neither.

 

[SteveAWOL]

It could be quite easily argued that the two systems are not that dissimilar especially when Holtby is dropping deep looking for the ball

True, although the problem this season is perhaps that we don't have a "quarterback" who can ping long passes like Huddlestone / Moutinho to complement Holtby' industrious one-touch... well unless Capoue proves to be that player but I haven't seen enough of him to determine that.

Missing out on Moutinho wasn't AVB's fault, in fact I felt sorry for him because I don't think Levy did enough to back him in that window. But surely he had the chance to put that right during the last window and sign a similar type player?

Think he did the right thing getting rid of Hudd, but I feel we should stuck with Carroll, even if he only played in Europe.

I do think Paulinho will come good eventually, most Brazilians take at least a season to come good, Ramires is certainly a better player today than he was when he first came to England. Hell we only have to look at Sandro for another example.

I also have some sympathy for AVB as 2 summers on the trot our best player has left for Madrid and both times he's identified someone he wants to build the team around only for Levy / Baldini to be thwarted at the final hurdle.

Fingers crossed that Paulinho goes on to do better in English football than Denilson, Anderson, Geovanni, Kleberson, Jo... Gilberto!

 

[scaramanga]

We spent almost £30 million transfer fee on those two. That is not small change and not something we can afford as a 'stop gap' while AVB messes around and waits for the next opportunity to sign Moutinho or a similar player.

It is if they don't lose value in the market - I'd be very surprised if they did.

 

[braineclipse]

But its just what we do. We're stockpiling young technical players who seem like good value at the time and that have no obvious position in the team when we buy them. The likes of Siggy, Holtby, Chadli, Eriksen. I don't think Paulinho or Capoue were bought with any great plan in mind neither.

I would really question some of the players you've included in that.

Chadli has played consistently on the left flank, like he did at least at times for Twente. If not for his injury he probably would have had twice as many games by now in that position.

I think it's way too soon to say that Eriksen hasn't been bought with a plan in mind. He's played consistently in the hole in a 4-2-3-1 so far, but is obviously talented and can probably do well in various positions.

Paulinho and Capoue look like decent signings in isolation at least considering how heavily we depended on Dembele last season and with Parker being sold another defensive midfielder in makes sense.

Siggy has been used in two positions, in the hole where he's been at his best throughout his career from what I know and on the left. Playing a number 10 like that on a flank to cut inside onto his best foot is pretty common.

It hasn't worked out the way we've wanted, that doesn't mean that there was no plan in place.

True, although the problem this season is perhaps that we don't have a "quarterback" who can ping long passes like Huddlestone / Moutinho to complement Holtby' industrious one-touch... well unless Capoue proves to be that player but I haven't seen enough of him to determine that.



I also have some sympathy for AVB as 2 summers on the trot our best player has left for Madrid and both times he's identified someone he wants to build the team around only for Levy / Baldini to be thwarted at the final hurdle.

Fingers crossed that Paulinho goes on to do better in English football than Denilson, Anderson, Geovanni, Kleberson, Jo... Gilberto!

I agree that we're light a proper passer in midfield.

I too have some sympathy for AVB regarding players sold. We all remember how long it took us to recover from the sales of Carrick and Berbatov. Losing Modric and then Bale in successive years would be a massive blow to any club I think. No surprise perhaps that the best period under Redknapp came after a period where we managed to keep our best players for successive seasons, no surprise perhaps that the success Arsenal are enjoying this season came after their first summer in ages without selling a top class player.

 

[braineclipse]

It is if they don't lose value in the market - I'd be very surprised if they did.

This is a decent point, but I still think that if what AVB well and truly wants is a Modric/Moutinho style central playmaker in his team that an option like that should have been available somewhere that he could have brought in to at least make sure we had that player type in our squad. Not getting a player like that in indicates to me that perhaps he doesn't see a player like that as a necessity, for better or for worse.

 

[billyiddo]

I would have thought that Eriksen can play that role, no? Was he not a playmaker of sorts for Ajax?

 

[Modric THFC]

I would have thought that Eriksen can play that role, no? Was he not a playmaker of sorts for Ajax?

Not really as the deeplying role but as left side of the central 3 in a 433.
from his interview with the telegraph the other day

"Eriksen’s own preferred system is 4-3-3.
“Always. Odense: 4-3-3, although we also played 4-4-2 but with a diamond. With the national team ever since Under-17 it was 4-3-3. Ajax: 4-3-3. Always.’"

 

[indospurs]

We need to find our feet now. It's December already. We don't want to open up play under AvB, it's all compact and tight - I do have concern with Daws at the back against the tricky players, he gets so easily exposed. Kaboom was also shown up last week. I think Chiriches can do a very good job, but as I read somewhere as good as Jan is, I think Daws is better at forming partnerships. Our LB position is having a knock on effect to the CB pairing, and we lose out on the attacking threat we got from Rose. Funny, coz I slated Rose didn't think he was up to being in the first XI, but now I think we badly miss him.

 

[Modric THFC]

Worth linking Burt's article in here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...form-ahead-of-visit-of-Manchester-United.html

We dont have the players we originally planned to when we bought Paulinho and Soldado. Young players brought in with resale value with the idea they might be sold on quickly if they dont work out.

AVB's plans have been ripped up and rewritten numerous times during the summer.