Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

All I know is nothing remains constant. Anyone who thinks a team can keep improving year in, year out or at least maintain a level of performance is an unrealistic idiot and extremely symptomatic of today's "I want all right now!" society.

I never said it did, just that "5th" at the end of the season isnt in itself reflective of the seasons potential/story/achievement on the whole.

Take Jols 5ths, first one was a fantastic achievement, we worked hard all year to stay in fourth and got pipped to the post on the final day. Heart breaking, but given the team he had, the competition we had, the form we held throughout the season etc it was fantastic.

His second, we were no where near 5th all season and only a late surge landed us there. On the whole the season was very disappointing and nothing like the achievement on the 5th before hand.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I never said it did, just that "5th" at the end of the season isnt in itself reflective of the seasons potential/story/achievement on the whole.

Take Jols 5ths, first one was a fantastic achievement, we worked hard all year to stay in fourth and got pipped to the post on the final day. Heart breaking, but given the team he had, the competition we had, the form we held throughout the season etc it was fantastic.

His second, we were no where near 5th all season and only a late surge landed us there. On the whole the season was very disappointing and nothing like the achievement on the 5th before hand.

5th is 5th. The journey there can vary dependant on the order of the opposition. But 5th is 5th. The rest is merely perception.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But unless you are working at the club you can't? Everything else is just public words in the wind. As I said, there is every chance we could go backwards for a few YEARS under a new manager whilst the unseen foundations were laid behind the scenes. How patient would you be if AVB came in and we finished 11th next year, and then 13th the year after for example?

Of course I can! Everytime I watch a match I can see what is happening. I can see if a system of play is developing, pick up on relationships between players, observe the shape of the team...

Usually its as plain as day (with any team) what it is they are trying to do, what is rehearsed, what is working and what isnt...

If I saw these signs in the team I would be happy, even if that meant 11th then 13th...

Its the primary issue I have with Redknapp - I see nothing coming through to suggest planning and work behind the scenes

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Got it in one.

Too many Spurs fans - like me - have been waiting far too long already. Sick of waiting in fact. So now its time for the fast track route IMHO. Many will agree with me. Some no doubt won't.

Thing is, there's too many intangibles and things that can go wrong in football that make taking that kind of risk completely irresponsible.

Sure, we could break to the bank to get Mourinho in. We could give him brick loads of money to sign players. He could extract fantastic performances from them. But there's always the risk that we might be victims of terrible bad luck/awful refereeing decisions/poor finishing and we may end of not qualifying for the Champions League, putting our club in terrible financial turmoil from which it could take years to recover.

You can't just throw money at football and expect success. Leeds taught us that.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Cant believe people think that Ramos was ever going to be the next Mourinho. His CV shows himself as being a journeyman manager, similar to our Harry. He spend 1 or 2 years at a aclub then moved on without really ever doing anything. He struck it lucky with Sevilla in that their DoF assembled a decent squad for him

I think you could almost be describing Pardew there. One day he will move onto another job and I suspect flop as dramatically...

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Of course I can! Everytime I watch a match I can see what is happening. I can see if a system of play is developing, pick up on relationships between players, observe the shape of the team...

Usually its as plain as day (with any team) what it is they are trying to do, what is rehearsed, what is working and what isnt...

If I saw these signs in the team I would be happy, even if that meant 11th then 13th...

Its the primary issue I have with Redknapp - I see nothing coming through to suggest planning and work behind the scenes

The new academy?

And considering tactics, systems and personnel change every couple of years (regardless of who the Manager is, how long they're in charge etc) I don't really see why you'd take systems as a gauge?

I think it's very obvious what Spurs are TRYING to do at the moment. A very patient short passing game, combined with pace on the flanks (from both full back and wingers), and a very fluid team that can swap positions during the course of the game. Whether all of that can work? I don't know, but it's bloody obvious what he is trying to achieve.

When he plays 4-5-1 away from home it's obvious he thinks we're too open away from home.

Do you not see the relationship between Parker and Modric?!

In fact, I can't be bothered debating this. You are so biased against now that you're being utterly irrational.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I totally and utterly agree with that, as long as you get the right man in to allow that long-term risk.

Hire Mourhino. Give him 5 years. You know the man is a winner, so you entrust the clubs plying future to him. And big spending on players because you trust him to get the best, and the best out of them. Like the Mancs have done with SAF for 20 years now. But it must be the right man in the first place. SAF proved himself to be that man with them, and at that time he was afforded that luxury. You cannot do that now unless you want more Redknapp/Gross/Graham disasters.

Hire Mourhino. The right man with the right cv.

He's not coming to Spurs. Even if he did, what makes you think he'd stay 5 years? He fudges off after 3 years, that's his MO.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

But unless you are working at the club you can't? Everything else is just public words in the wind. As I said, there is every chance we could go backwards for a few YEARS under a new manager whilst the unseen foundations were laid behind the scenes. How patient would you be if AVB came in and we finished 11th next year, and then 13th the year after for example?

I think the money at the biggest clubs has meant that I don't think there's ever going to be a case where a club finishes bottom half for a few seasons before suddenly winning/challenging for the title. No amount of tactical preparation will lead to such a sudden jump in performance IMO. Not that big. So fans wouldn't be patient, and rightly so.

However, I'd accept 3 or 4 seasons of nearly making the top 4, hell I'd accept 1 or 2 of finishing 6th or 7th if there was clear progress being made. But the money involved now means there won't ever be such a drastic jump, and there shouldn't be such a dip with us either.

For what it's worth I think Ramos was just here at the wrong time. He, like AVB at Chelsea, didn't have the players needed for his style of football. At Sevilla he had pacy wingers, and good strikers to get hold of the ball and finish it off. I remember being at the Villa game at home where we lost 2-1. It was a shambles. Instead of wingers, we had Modric starting on the left and doing nothing before getting injured, David Bentley coming on to replace him on the left...and Bent and Pav trying and failing to form some sort of partnership upfront, where our only striker in reserve was Frazier Campbell.

Ramos was never going to be a success with that squad, and his system was never going to work with the players he had available. If he had been given 40 million to sign some players that would let his system work a little better I'm sure he would have been more of a success. He didn't get that money though and Redknapp did. Just the wrong man at the wrong time, and we need the right one for us.

On the Rodgers thing, about him needing to convince Swansea players of his methods, it was probably more because of the fact that they were poorer players who needed to be convinced that they themselves were capable of taking risks in possesion. He isn't going to need to tell Modric, Bale, or even if they've left the likes of Huddlestone or Lennon that they can keep hold of the ball.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Im not, at all, I just happen to disagree with you - while you have also taken a very skewed view of my stance.

I want Harry out, I think he has given us all he can. I happen to actually like him though, and appreciate what he has achieved - I just think there is more in the team/club than he is able to realise.

I wasnt talking about training facilities or anything like it (thats much more Levys area). Im talking about tactics, training ground stuff.

It is indeed obvious what Harry has been doing, and (IMO) obvious he relies heavily on players instinct and intuition instead of a more structured shape to the side/pattern of play.

Its great while it works, but falls to pieces when things dont go so well. Set pieces, another area (offensive and defensive) we just dont seem to work at.

The relationship between Modric and Parker is a natural one, not a rehearsed routine. Same as the wat Ekotto/Modric worked (with Modric on the left) and Corluka/Lennon. Nice, natural, synergies - not a taught pattern by design.

Look at Swansea for the difference. When we play well we play the patient short passing game you describe. When we dont play well it falls to pieces, passing gets hurried, passing options limited, long balls creeping in... Swansea, on a good day or on a bad day play the same way. When it works its sensational (much like us) and when it doesnt they are still able to play to a consistent level, in a consistent manner. Over Christmas, between games a couple of days apart they changed something like 7 players, and yet the team performed in exactly the same manner in both matches. That is not something I believe we could achieve. Change 7 players and we would be unrecognisable.

And thats before we start on the lack of planning in the squad - though this of course becomes less clear as to where responsibility lies given Levys heavy participation

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I disagree completely, but having seen you make the same point numerous times and never entertain another view on it I see little point in pursuing the line of conversation.

5th is indeed 5th, but isnt the whole story.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm with Nayim.

Two jokes can have the identical punchline but one could be very funny, the other not at all.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Interesting read...

Twitter / @SpursStatMan: Redknapp for England - [url]http://bit.ly/I8GGZN | @matt_swan40 highlights why it might be time for Harry to go. (via @EPLIndex)[/URL]

 

[COYS]

Harry's only experimenting with tactics because he doesn't give a fudge what happens to him as he knows the England job's secured. To be honest, he'd probably rather get sacked then sold as that means he'll get the rest of his contract paid out.

 

[DanishWhite]

We had a like for like cover for Lennon.

Pienaar. Alledgedly a top earner and doing well enough when we put him on, but not the least bit rated by the manager, who signed him himself. Now freescoring and assisting for Everton, which looks a new team with him (and Jelavic, granted!).

Now, whose fault is that ?

 

[DanishWhite]

Harry's only experimenting with tactics because he doesn't give a fudge what happens to him as he knows the England job's secured. To be honest, he'd probably rather get sacked then sold as that means he'll get the rest of his contract paid out.

I am not saying this is true, but the whole incitement structure of it is beyond imagination.

Getting himself sacked will free England of the compensation to Spurs, effectively increasing Redknapps leverage on a wage negotiation.

 

[Jelly]

gilzeantheking – SC
Confirmed by POTL so it must be true.

1. Harry is out SACKED if England do not take him ….

2. 4 Teams in for Luca, Man u want Walker, teams in for Sandro, Kaboul too.

3. Harry has lost the dressing room and respect of the players, he takes no advice from anybody at the club.

4. Harry was offered loads of players in Jan turned them all down, the included Cisse of Saudi Sportswashing Machine. He is stubborn and only wants players he knows.

5. Leandro and Hazard deals done if we make champions lg, deals off if we don’t we will not be able to pay the wages.

6. Luka deffo off whatever happens.

7. Stadium plans will be delayed if we fail to make champions lg.

8. Levy has had enough of Harry and his ways all the players that left were Harry’s decisions. They almost sacked him last summer.

9. The club think not making the Champions lg will put us back 3-5 years, due to reduced income, delay in building the stadium, not getting the players we want and losing others.

10. We are talking to Jose BUT no deal if we do not make Champions lg, Martinez, Rodgers on list, Moyes not….Hoddle also being considered.

 

[DanishWhite]

We may as well play VdV as a single striker rather than Defoe. He's got better movement in tight spaces along the backline and has experience doing so for Ajax in the CL, a.o.

I feel sorry for Defoe. The strenghts and weaknesses he's got, it's almost as bad as can be playing alone in a one striker system.

Yet such is the times. Adaption is the key. Or a departure.

 

[markysimmo]

gilzeantheking – SC
Confirmed by POTL so it must be true.

1. Harry is out SACKED if England do not take him ….

2. 4 Teams in for Luca, Man u want Walker, teams in for Sandro, Kaboul too.

3. Harry has lost the dressing room and respect of the players, he takes no advice from anybody at the club.

4. Harry was offered loads of players in Jan turned them all down, the included Cisse of Saudi Sportswashing Machine. He is stubborn and only wants players he knows.

5. Leandro and Hazard deals done if we make champions lg, deals off if we don’t we will not be able to pay the wages.

6. Luka deffo off whatever happens.

7. Stadium plans will be delayed if we fail to make champions lg.

8. Levy has had enough of Harry and his ways all the players that left were Harry’s decisions. They almost sacked him last summer.

9. The club think not making the Champions lg will put us back 3-5 years, due to reduced income, delay in building the stadium, not getting the players we want and losing others.

10. We are talking to Jose BUT no deal if we do not make Champions lg, Martinez, Rodgers on list, Moyes not….Hoddle also being considered.

Its.........

 

[GlennGoddle]

Stadium put off if no CL? Absolute fudging gonads.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's not experimenting. It's just a conflict between the 4-2-3-1 he accidentally stumbled on that works vs his kneejerk reaction/80s and 90s hangover to always try and play 4-4-2. It's low scoring victories vs high scoring defeats.