F.A statement on the word "yid"

[Dorothy]

David Cameron's statement is pretty astonishing. Surprised he's stuck his neck out, although I suppose his approach would have appeal to his constituencies of voters.

It appears fairly logical to me. Consider the real problems our Country faces, the PMs priorities, the issues facing the World right now and then pause to think about some media whipped up nonsense designed to give a few retired sportsmen and equal rights lawyers some work. A fairly simple statement that the real issue is dealing with hate crimes, prejudice and not a group of football fans who are not intending to offend but to support a race marginalised and ridiculed by a majority.

Think how many people genuinely, actually care or even knew about it outside of those who attend football matches ? Not to say that just because people aren't aware doesn't make it right. 50% or more of the mock disgust has come from people with their own agenda. Baddiel, as well meaning as he is, concentrated his arguments from the wrong standpoint entirely, finding himself, largely treading the path of bias. Had he come out and made his point about racism within the stands, named clubs, named chants and used Spurs use of the word 'Yid' as an example of how bad the situation had got that a club had adopted the term in an attempt to deflect the negativity, then perhaps his attempts to justify himself now wouldn't look so naff. Perhaps, maybe hopefully, there will come a time when we don't use the word but it won't be because some X list fans of rival clubs make a song and dance about it in the Grauniad.

 

[metalgear]

http://www.sportsdirectnews.com/pre...ing-rabbi-tells-pm-to-stay-out-of-yid-row.php

we got a rabbi on our side now

Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet, one of the most influential rabbis in the United Kingdom, has told Cameron that he should not be getting involved with the subject.

Talking to SportsDirect News, he said: “It is a sensitive subject and arguments can go either way.

“It is certainly not the place for the Prime Minister of the country to be offering his two cents worth.”

However, rabbi Schochet, who serves at the Mill Hill synagogue in north London, agrees with the Prime Minister in so far as he is of the opinion that the Tottenham fans' use the word is not offensive as it does not come from a place of hatred.

“I think we have to put this in context,” he said. “There is a time and a place for the word, used in different contexts or different settings it will have different implications.

“I maintain that on the Spurs pitch, it is categorically not anti-Semitic and not offensive but rather it is rallying call of support for a team that has a strong Jewish following.

 

[Superted]

“I maintain that on the Spurs pitch, it is categorically not anti-Semitic and not offensive but rather it is rallying call of support for a team that has a strong Jewish following.

Exactly. In fact, to say otherwise is perpetuating the hate. To put a stigma on the word will only mean that when the Chelsea and West Ham fans continue to chant it (and you bet your sweet **** they will), then it will be even more offensive.

 

[Notmegov]

This piece was originally published on the old MirrorFootball site in April, 2011 to coincide with David Baddiel's campaign to eradicate the 'Y'-word from football, but it seems particularly pertinent to resurface it this week.

***

Anti-semitism is the acceptable face of football racism.

Don't agree? Well consider this:

There's a song that's sung by large numbers of London's football fraternity - including, I'm sad to say, sections of the support of my own club, West Ham United - that proclaims, to the tune of 'She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain':

We'll be running round Tottenham with our willies hanging out ?We'll be running round Tottenham with our willies hanging out ?We'll be running round Tottenham, running round Tottenham, ?We'll be running round Tottenham with our willies hanging out

Singing... I've got a foreskin, haven't you? ?I've got a foreskin, haven't you? ?I've got a foreskin, I've got a foreskin ?I've got a foreskin, haven't you?

A catchy ditty, I'm sure you'll agree, and one that could just about come under the umbrella of that catch-all cop out 'terrace wit' had your definition of wit not evolved since you first stepped foot outside of the school playground.

In recent years, though, each line of that chucklesome chorus has been punctuated with the refrain: 'F***ing Jew!'

And not in a jokey way, either. I've witnessed dozens of lads marching down the road spitting out the phrase as if it were a stale mouthful of lager.


White Hart shame: Sunday's league game was marred by vile chants
Jamie McDonald

Think back: when was the last time you heard a terrace chant sung en masse that made disparaging reference to the physical characteristics of an ethnic minority before concluding with a similarly spiteful kicker.

'F***ing black!', maybe. Or Ff***ing P**i!'? Or fF***ing anyone ?

Chances are that you won't have done for many, many years. Or, depending on your age, at all.

Thanks to the utterly commendable work by high-profile anti-racism campaigners and organisations like Kick It Out, even the most wrong-headed of terrace racists have cottoned on to the fact that it's no longer acceptable to abuse others for the colour of their skin.

Their religious views, though? Well, that sees to be an entirely different ball game.

Traditionally, thanks to their geographical location and post-war crowd demographic, Tottenham Hotspur have born the brunt of English football's pent-up anti-semitism.

Thankfully the days in which their fans - Jews and gentiles alike - were regularly regaled with the vilest of chants centred around Concentration Camps, such as '70s hit 'Spurs are on their way to Belsen', or greeted with banks of opposing fans simulating the sound of gas being released, are receding into history.

Again, even the most virulent anti-semites realise that brazen references to Nazism are now terminally taboo, and It's been some years since I was caught up in a West Ham crowd celebrating a win over Spurs by adapting the words of 'Singing The Blues' to 'Gassing the Jews'.

It would be wrong to think that anti-semitism has somehow been eradicated from our football grounds, or driven underground, though. If anything, the success in combating other forms of terrace racism have made anti-semitism even more prevalent. The 'Y-word', as Kick It Out's current campaign explains , has become a common adjective of abuse.

"The Y-word is - and has been for many, many years - a race hate word," explains David Baddiel, a Jewish comedian, Chelsea fan and celebrity figurehead for the current initiative.

"It's our belief that some football fans may not even realise this, and [our campaign's film] is designed therefore to inform and raise debate."

The quiet murmur of debate it provoked was telling, its critics stock positions being either to deny there was a problem at all, or else to blame the word's proliferation on those Tottenham fans who, in the face of decades of abuse, have come to refer to themselves as Yiddos or members of the Yid Army.



Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/anti-semitsm-racism-football--its-1459168#ixzz2fGYOD8vi
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[johnola]

Let me know what you decide lads. Whatever is fine by me.

I always sensed the term to be alien but definitive, yet never had an awareness of it being offensive- which I must accept now. There was a rite of passage attending games and graduating from a fan to a singing at games self defined "yiddo". The Jewish thing is knowing and affectionate, but it doesn't define us collectively, not really.

The guy with the drum is going to be in a spot on matchdays.

 

[Superhudd]

[video=youtube_share;y5vlPDt_YH8]http://youtu.be/y5vlPDt_YH8[/video]

 

[Danners9]

I find this FA statement and Baddiel crusade very offensive, as a non-Jew.. completely non-religious actually.

Blaming the abused for refusing to be abused by disarming the insults is so backwards it's actually laughable. The problem is and always has been those who seek to offend. It is, ironically, the fans of the club Baddiel supports that are the cause of this campaign of his. He admits it, he and his brother going to Chelsea games at Stamford Bridge and feeling uncomfortable.

IF Spurs dropping the chant would stop racist abuse overnight then I am sure we would all be in favour of it, a small sacrifice and all that. But would it? Of course it bloody wouldn't. Until the root cause it tackled then it will continue. So why not defy the racists with a show of togetherness?

The Met Police and the Prime Minister are on the side of Spurs, if there is indeed a side to take. The FA have used 'intent' before in cases against players, notably John Terry - oh look, the Chelsea captain. That C word again. Twice in this post. A common theme, perhaps.

Yet here they are issuing a blanket statement that ignores the key foundations of language - context and delivery. 'We're the Yids!' is totally different to 'You're the Yids!' and if you add expletives and anger it becomes even more obvious.

Obvious, you'd think, but apparently not...

 

[Heda SPURSCZ]

A letter from a Jewish Tottenham fan to David Baddiel

http://www.thstofficial.com/latest-news/a-letter-from-a-jewish-tottenham-fan-to-david-baddiel.aspx

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Well done that man!

 

[Bullet]

A letter from a Jewish Tottenham fan to David Baddiel

http://www.thstofficial.com/latest-news/a-letter-from-a-jewish-tottenham-fan-to-david-baddiel.aspx

That is a fantastic letter, I'm pasting here to bump the thread up and encourage lazy people to read it


Dear David,
Here we are again. The Y word. Or to refer to its real name, The C Word. Because as you and I both know this little problem is not about Spurs fans using the word Yid in a positive or negative manner. It’s about feeling uncomfortable at Chelsea games.

I can appreciate where you are coming from. As a Jewish Tottenham fan myself, going to Stamford Bridge is an incredibly difficult day out for me. I’m 37 and I look like a typical NW London Jew. You and I would pick each other out as Jews from 100 yards at any holiday destination on Earth. I even have a brilliant Jewish hooter to top off the look. I am what I am. Getting off the tube at Fulham Broadway though, I might as well have that yellow star sewn to my coat, because you are quite right this is not what football is about. It’s a quite vile experience and as a father of two boys, one that I won’t be putting them through until they are a lot older, if at all. To be honest though, this is your problem and not mine. We turned an insult into a positive. All on our own. The gay community did it with the word ‘queer’. It’s quite clever really. Quite why you suggest that those who turned the insult into a term of fraternity should lead the way, so those that use it as a racial insult can be told not to use it, is quite frankly illogical.

Chelsea, West Ham, Leeds. These are the three places where I have heard the gassing noises and felt that pang of nausea in my stomach. A pang you describe and which I’m sure you feel somewhat ashamed about. Be that as it may, Tottenham on a match day is probably the safest environment in England for a Jewish person. Isn’t that lovely? My family have 4 tickets and we are reform Jews. However I often give any spares to two ultra orthodox Spurs fans. They both wear kippot and one of them looks like every rabbi you’ve ever seen in your haggadah. They get cheered through the streets of Tottenham. They love it! People smile at them, chant ‘Yiddo’ at them and they wear their spurs shirts and their tzitzit with pride. How wonderful is that? In an era where there is so much bitterness and negativity, these two fellas can enjoy their football and their religion and feel totally safe. Thirty years ago that might have not been the case as the bananas hailed down on black wingers and coins were thrown at Jews to see if they would pick them up.

David, I am a huge fan of your work, but in this you are so wide of the mark that I find your view offensive. I find what you are trying to do, actually borderline anti-semetic. Don’t hide away the victims and shut them up because it makes your match day experience difficult. This is Chelsea’s problem. This is West Ham’s problem. This is Leeds United’s problem.

In Germany in 1933, SS men stood outside Jewish shops to deter anyone from entering. In 1934, buses, trains and park benches had seats marked out for us to sit on and our children were taught specifically anti-semetic ideas. In 1935 the Nuremberg Law was passed and Jews lost their rights to be German citizens and marriage between Jews and non-Jews became illegal. You know how this story ends.

In 2013 Jews and non Jews in a small corner of London, are united. Please please please, don’t f**k that up.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Cheers Bullet.

I LOVE that letter.

Baddiel can do one!

 

[THFC]

I too have been a fan of Baddiel in the past however my respect for him is now almost non existant until I see a u turn.

 

[squidseye]

FFS you can't ban a word. It's like a baseball bat. You can use it to play a game or you can use it as a weapon, but you don't stop some kid having one because they might hurt somebody with it. You go after the people who commit the offence.

Go after the hissing scumbag bigots, but leave the proud Jewish and non-Jewish yiddos alone.

 

[nattenskonge]

That is a fantastic letter, I'm pasting here to bump the thread up and encourage lazy people to read it


Dear David,
Here we are again. The Y word. Or to refer to its real name, The C Word. Because as you and I both know this little problem is not about Spurs fans using the word Yid in a positive or negative manner. It’s about feeling uncomfortable at Chelsea games.

I can appreciate where you are coming from. As a Jewish Tottenham fan myself, going to Stamford Bridge is an incredibly difficult day out for me. I’m 37 and I look like a typical NW London Jew. You and I would pick each other out as Jews from 100 yards at any holiday destination on Earth. I even have a brilliant Jewish hooter to top off the look. I am what I am. Getting off the tube at Fulham Broadway though, I might as well have that yellow star sewn to my coat, because you are quite right this is not what football is about. It’s a quite vile experience and as a father of two boys, one that I won’t be putting them through until they are a lot older, if at all. To be honest though, this is your problem and not mine. We turned an insult into a positive. All on our own. The gay community did it with the word ‘queer’. It’s quite clever really. Quite why you suggest that those who turned the insult into a term of fraternity should lead the way, so those that use it as a racial insult can be told not to use it, is quite frankly illogical.

Chelsea, West Ham, Leeds. These are the three places where I have heard the gassing noises and felt that pang of nausea in my stomach. A pang you describe and which I’m sure you feel somewhat ashamed about. Be that as it may, Tottenham on a match day is probably the safest environment in England for a Jewish person. Isn’t that lovely? My family have 4 tickets and we are reform Jews. However I often give any spares to two ultra orthodox Spurs fans. They both wear kippot and one of them looks like every rabbi you’ve ever seen in your haggadah. They get cheered through the streets of Tottenham. They love it! People smile at them, chant ‘Yiddo’ at them and they wear their spurs shirts and their tzitzit with pride. How wonderful is that? In an era where there is so much bitterness and negativity, these two fellas can enjoy their football and their religion and feel totally safe. Thirty years ago that might have not been the case as the bananas hailed down on black wingers and coins were thrown at Jews to see if they would pick them up.

David, I am a huge fan of your work, but in this you are so wide of the mark that I find your view offensive. I find what you are trying to do, actually borderline anti-semetic. Don’t hide away the victims and shut them up because it makes your match day experience difficult. This is Chelsea’s problem. This is West Ham’s problem. This is Leeds United’s problem.

In Germany in 1933, SS men stood outside Jewish shops to deter anyone from entering. In 1934, buses, trains and park benches had seats marked out for us to sit on and our children were taught specifically anti-semetic ideas. In 1935 the Nuremberg Law was passed and Jews lost their rights to be German citizens and marriage between Jews and non-Jews became illegal. You know how this story ends.

In 2013 Jews and non Jews in a small corner of London, are united. Please please please, don’t f**k that up.

Bloddy hell, got a tear from that and Im christian

 

[Superhudd]

Yeah. Got a proper sense of pride from the writer when reading that.

Its amazing that the hissing noise etc from opposing fans doesn't get more airtime on the news. I was watching the Sunday supplement on... Sunday :lol: and there was a journalist that didn't even know this happened. He got it from a Jewish friend that told him about it and gave his views on the Yid word. Quite how its not become mainstream news over the years I do not know. Monkey chants hits the news faster than they can arrest the person doing it. Yet why is it brushed under the carpet. Thankfully in recent times thanks to David Gold in particular he is doing something about his club, but what about the Jewish owner of Chelsea, does he not feel compelled to do something.

Its like in sports and the person that retaliates to a punch and punches back is the one that gets the punishment. When its the instigators that get away with it.

 

[ShelfLife]

Yeah. Got a proper sense of pride from the writer when reading that.

Its amazing that the hissing noise etc from opposing fans doesn't get more airtime on the news. I was watching the Sunday supplement on... Sunday :lol: and there was a journalist that didn't even know this happened. He got it from a Jewish friend that told him about it and gave his views on the Yid word. Quite how its not become mainstream news over the years I do not know. Monkey chants hits the news faster than they can arrest the person doing it. Yet why is it brushed under the carpet. Thankfully in recent times thanks to David Gold in particular he is doing something about his club, but what about the Jewish owner of Chelsea, does he not feel compelled to do something.

Its like in sports and the person that retaliates to a punch and punches back is the one that gets the punishment. When its the instigators that get away with it.

I haven't read through every page on this thread so I am not sure what the prevailing or majority view is on here (though I can probably guess), but I can kind of see both sides here. Spurs fans chant the words not to offend but to unify. Its part of the tribal fabric of the club, which only came into being in the first place due to the anti-semetic abuse that was directed at it by rival supporters. However, for certain Jewish people the word will always be abhorrent, hence they will be offended no matter the context. It's a tricky one.

Having said that, Mr Baddiel's argument appears rather confused to me. If I have understood him correctly, his issue is not with Spurs fans' chanting of the word in itself, which he appears to accept is not intended to be offensive, let alone racist. Rather his problem is the response that the chant elicits form rival fans, be it Arsenal, West Ham or the supporters of his own club. The 'call and response dynamic' as he calls it.

Now this is where his logic becomes absurdly twisted in my view. Its almost akin to saying don't take your kids to the park as there might be sexual predators hanging about there. It's also appears naive in the extreme to expect people who are minded to wheel out the hissing and Auschwitz numbers every time Spurs are in town, to suddenly stop simply because the 'Yid Army' chants no longer get aired.

 

[colin fishwick]

Writing to Baddiel is giving him the oxygen of publicity he seeks.

He knows very well, we are not going to stop using the word and we are not going to be stopped.

His intervention IMO is purely self serving, self indulgent, stirring.
His intervention is likely to only invoke more anti anti semitism,. Why stir the pot? Why take the chance? For What ? He knows it will not be banned and we will not stop.

The publicity he has been given has created a problem that was not there. I take a very dim view of someone who plays with this sort of fire.

He is not an Enoch Powell, he is not doing it for the same reasons.

He is however a chronically unfunny so called comedian, who's career is going nowhere. it is just a shame, the only way he can get the public's attention is by causing this sort of trouble.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Yeah. Got a proper sense of pride from the writer when reading that.

Its amazing that the hissing noise etc from opposing fans doesn't get more airtime on the news. I was watching the Sunday supplement on... Sunday :lol: and there was a journalist that didn't even know this happened. He got it from a Jewish friend that told him about it and gave his views on the Yid word. Quite how its not become mainstream news over the years I do not know. Monkey chants hits the news faster than they can arrest the person doing it. Yet why is it brushed under the carpet. Thankfully in recent times thanks to David Gold in particular he is doing something about his club, but what about the Jewish owner of Chelsea, does he not feel compelled to do something.

Its like in sports and the person that retaliates to a punch and punches back is the one that gets the punishment. When its the instigators that get away with it.

If you put that to Chelsea fans, I'd wager fewer than half would realise he's Jewish. Oh, the ironing.

 

[Yermiyahu]

If you put that to Chelsea fans, I'd wager fewer than half would realise he's Jewish. Oh, the ironing.

I once mentioned the fact the Abramovch is Jewish to a Chelsea fan who once worked for me who was virulently anti Semitic (except when he was collecting his wages). "No he's not , he's Russian" came the response. The confused look on his face when I gently pointed out that it was possible to be both Russian and Jewish, in the same way that I am English and Jewish was priceless.
It kind of sums them up for me. It is hysterical that Chelsea and West Ham both have Jewish owners, it really is ironic.

 

[Papercut]

What is its comparison to the word Nigger? I know it's difficult to give them levels of profanity or offence.

If we were to shout Nigger, Nigger, Nigger or Nigo, Nigo - I think we can all accept we'd be horrified. Particularly if we were doing it to support a black player.

Or let's say - Paki, Paki, Paki or Paaaakooo Paaaakooo...

Just trying to put a different spin on it (plus I love debate )

The first term - would we be reclaiming it? Perhaps some of our black fans could say that but what about the rest (as is part of the current argument)? It is hugely different in that we know that Nigger is hugely offensive but it could link to the the fact that Tottenham has quite a large Black Afro Carribean population (my father in law included). Or is it that opposition fans would no way dare to wear white hoods or make reference to slavery?

Yep - there is race, religion and nationality in there. I imagine the idiotic of fans would refrain from insulting race - that's due to a bit more education over time. However religion and nationality is still fair game IMO - particularly the latter.

Will the latter two ever get the same exposure seeing as there are fewer races in the eyes of some people?