F.A statement on the word "yid"

[Southcote Spur]

The problem with Baddiel is his credibility.

How can you rant on about this issue being disgusting, racist, and offensive, and yet still continue too sit among the worst perpetrators at Stamford Bridge.

His love of Chelsea is greater and of more importance to him than his religion. That is the only conclusion you can draw.

If he cannot make a stand, it's because he is spineless.

Brilliant post, absolutely brilliant =D>

 

[chicken_badge]

Maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right.

But there are far more bigger things the FA should be addressing with regards to racism right.

 

[metalgear]

Maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right.

But there are far more bigger things the FA should be addressing with regards to racism right.

This.
There's this whole Respect campaign that's going down the drain. Things like stopping shouting at refs would be a good start.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I think it's a macaronic move, which of course is a trademark of the F.A. I won't say more than that, as most of what I had meant to say has already been said in some excellent posts in this thread.

I would only like to observe that a) all the blokes with some variation of 'Yid Army' tattoos: will the FA pay to have them removed? and b) All this will do is make matchday Spurs fans more determined to sing it than ever, which will likely result in more anti-semitism and stabbings when we travel to deligthful places like dangerously unstable Dagestan and foreboding Moldova, not to mention the high probability of more gas chamber hissing when we play Baddiel's beloved blameless Chelsea.

macaronic, stupid, blind decision. That is all.

 

[Aksolotl]

I would only like to observe that a) all the blokes with some variation of 'Yid Army' tattoos: will the FA pay to have them removed? and b) All this will do is make matchday Spurs fans more determined to sing it than ever, which will likely result in more anti-semitism and stabbings when we travel to deligthful places like dangerously unstable Dagestan and foreboding Moldova, not to mention the high probability of more gas chamber hissing when we play Baddiel's beloved blameless Chelsea.

We'll play with Anzhi near Moscow, no Dagestan and Moldova is rather safe for us. In fact Rome and Lyon are more dangerous.

 

[DubaiSpur]

We'll play with Anzhi near Moscow, no Dagestan and Moldova is rather safe for us. In fact Rome and Lyon are more dangerous.

I thought Anzhi were based in Dagestan?

 

[Jordinho]

I thought Anzhi were based in Dagestan?

Anzhi have so far been based in Moscow, but play their home league games in Dagestan.

 

[DubaiSpur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzhi-Arena

Apparently that's where they're based. Still, I've checked the OS and it lists our away game against them as scheduled to take place at 'Jupiter Stadium', which is apparently in Moscow. So you and Aksolotl are right there.

My original point stands, though: this is a stupid decision which will backfire spectacularly.

 

[Aksolotl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anzhi-Arena

Apparently that's where they're based. Still, I've checked the OS and it lists our away game against them as scheduled to take place at 'Jupiter Stadium', which is apparently in Moscow. So you and Aksolotl are right there.

My original point stands, though: this is a stupid decision which will backfire spectacularly.

yes, 'Jupiter Stadium' is near Moscow, UEFA didn't permit to play international matches on Anzhi Arena for safety reasons.
I agree - this is a stupid decision

 

[the fox in the box]

100% says it all really....


The time will come to stop using these chants when our fans and players are not subject to this abuse everytime we play against these clubs that throw such horrific abuse our way

 

[SpursLodge]

I'm not actually that keen on it as I'm not Jewish and would rather the club was not associated with it as I don't think it benefits us and can hurt us, like when we go to Lazio and attack all our fans because of this link.

The issue I have is with people blaming us for this, deal with Chelski, West Ham by prosecuting them like they did to our fans over the C***ball chant and that will stop the scumbags from those clubs, if they suddenly had banning orders and fines and criminal prosecutions hanging over them it'd soon stop, just like the c***ball one has (as far as I can tell) Once other clubs have stopped the abuse to us then maybe we can let it go and start some new chants but until the real issue is addressed we should keep it going in defiance to those other clubs supporters (idiots)

 

[Craig_J]

I'm not actually that keen on it as I'm not Jewish and would rather the club was not associated with it as I don't think it benefits us and can hurt us, like when we go to Lazio and attack all our fans because of this link.

The issue I have is with people blaming us for this, deal with Chelski, West Ham by prosecuting them like they did to our fans over the C***ball chant and that will stop the scumbags from those clubs, if they suddenly had banning orders and fines and criminal prosecutions hanging over them it'd soon stop, just like the c***ball one has (as far as I can tell) Once other clubs have stopped the abuse to us then maybe we can let it go and start some new chants but until the real issue is addressed we should keep it going in defiance to those other clubs supporters (idiots)

All the more reason to carry on chanting it!!!

For me "Yid Army" has always said we don't care if your black, white, asian or jewish. You're welcome at Spurs. And we don't care if others hate us for it, we won't shy about it. Try and use "Yids" as a derogatory term? Then we'll call our selves it!

We can't shy away and say "They're trying to hurt us because they think we're Jewish so lets abanoden the name". The whole reason for adopting it is to show that anyone's welcome, not say we're frightend for being classed as Jewish. It's a sort of "I am sparticus" situation where we all stand up as one.

During WW2 we could have left well alone in case we were seen as Jewish zionist sympathiers, but we didn't.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Now the club are looking to consult with the fans about the use of the word in the form of a questionnaire. I think eventually the club will go down the same route as Ajax did and continue to do and try and convince the fans to disassociate from the Jewish connection. It's inevitable. It draws parallels with what's going on in the NFL with the Washington Redskins refusing to change their name, except their owner has been frank, dismissive and pig headed about the issue with Levy and the Spurs hierarchy have at least been sympathetic to Jewish people and their sensitivities.

Will this stop the likes of West Ham and Chelsea from making hissing noises? My opinion, not a ****ing chance. That is what frustrates me about this whole issue. I'm not actually overly bothered about the discussion as to whether it's appropriate or not, I realise we use the term as a defence mechanism and I defend the fans right to say it, but I also understand why some Jewish people would be offended. I just don't like the idea of the FA and the police telling us WE can't say the word "yid" but and do absolutely nothing when Chelsea and West Ham for example make far, far more offensive gestures.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The irony and frustration about all this for me is that now the term has been 're-racialised' - given much greater racial meaning than it has had for 30 or more years. Since the 70s or 80s Yid hasn't had much of a racial connotation and for the last 20 odd years has just been a name, as other clubs have **** names, albeit one with a history. A history that we could possibly be proud of.

All these organisations and commentators have achieved is to recharge the word with racial meaning, that was not in peoples minds at all. You do wonder what their real motives are. While trying to eradicate a term people use freely, they have given the term the meaning that they supposedly don't like! Which it hasn't really carried for decades. Mugs, and maybe worse, conniving ****ers.

No one really chants it as a racial term now.

 

[Jordinho]

I never thought of it as being racist in any way until it was brought up recently. To me it's always been an honour bestowed upon anyone Spurs, player or fan. As said above, it's been used for so long nobody really considered it bad any longer.

Should NZ stop referring to themselves as the All Blacks or Sunderland as Black Cats? Where do they draw the line?

 

[Returner]

Hi guys, been a while since I posted on here. Used to comment under the name of Supporter. The Y word issue has forced me back.

Read this opinion piece, thought it was pretty spot on: http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/10674357.Opinion__Football_Association_s__Y_word__stance_will_not_solve_a_darker_issue/

I can still remember queuing up full of excitement.

I would hand over £4 for the privilege of standing in the Paxton End, 50p for a programme, 50p for a burger and then my 90 minutes with Glenn Hoddle could begin.

Going to Spurs in the early 80s had a lot going for it. Cheap, plenty of trophies (three in four years) and wonderful footballers.

I always positioned myself very close to the front of the terrace so you could hear the players shout when we had a corner. Travelling to the game was much easier than now and, when my dad couldn’t join us, he would drop me and my friend off by the West Stand gates and pick us up at 5pm.

By 1986 I had started to take more of an interest in the chants. I remember listening to a group of lads singing the Clive Allen song that I was desperate to learn the words to. It was then that I heard one shout: “Yiiiddddooosss”. I couldn’t make it out exactly. Everyone joined in, as did I, rather embarrassingly chanting: “Yeeeeoooowww”, until my friend set me straight.

“It’s Yido,” he said under his breath, looking around to see if anyone heard me.

“What does that mean?” I replied.

“I don’t know, but it’s what we sing.”

“Ok, okay. Yiiidddoooosss.”

I carried on singing it without a second thought. Chants of ‘Yid Army’ followed and then my personal favourite - a fan would shout: “Somebody give me a Y”, he would carry on until he had completed the word ‘Yido’. We would all repeat the letters, and then jump around chanting the word. I remember doing this for almost 20 minutes non-stop at Loftus Road.

Fast forward a few years and I had now found out what the word meant and I understood why we chanted it. It was 1994 and the terraces had been replaced by seats. The seats were more expensive and the football was much less entertaining. The trophies and the top three league finishes were not quite as common either.

Despite this, I renewed my season ticket with my friend and found myself sitting next to a new fan on my right. He was Jewish. He loved chanting ‘Yid Army’. He did, however, confess that he once muttered the word at home and was told in no uncertain terms by his father never to use it again. He ignored this order when he was at Spurs with his brother.

And that has remained the problem for years since. Spurs fans do not intend to offend anyone by using the word ‘Yid’. They never have, despite understanding that it may offend some.

It was first used by fans who sought to turn a negative into a positive, much like American rappers did with the ‘N’ word.

I went to watch Spurs at the Liberty Stadium in Swansea a few years ago and when they scored they chanted about being “sheep sh*ggers”. I’m sure that term would offend some Welsh people, but clearly the fans who sing it are not intending to upset their own community.

And that is the issue with the Football Association’s stance.

For the police to arrest and charge someone with a hate crime - surely hate must play a part?

It seems every year someone sparks this debate and every year it disappears and everything carries on as before. First David Baddiel, then Peter Herbert and now the FA.

I am sure their intentions are good, but simply stopping Spurs fans calling themselves ‘Yid Army’ will not eradicate the bizarre and disgusting anti-Semitism spouted in their direction by supporters of other London clubs.

Perhaps, as a Chelsea fan, it is easier for Mr Baddiel to blame Spurs fans when he hears sick chants at Stamford Bridge, even when Tottenham are not the visiting team.

In 2006 the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust asked the FA to create a programme aimed at educating fans of opposing teams about the word and its origins in a bid to stop them using it. The FA did nothing.

Education is exactly what is needed. And badly.

When Arsenal signed Mesut Ozil earlier this month one fan took to Twitter to say: “Yes, another German at Arsenal. Welcome Ozil. F**k off yids. #Nazis”

The account has since been deleted.

Anti Semitism aimed at Spurs fans is rife on Twitter. Just search the ‘Y word’… In 2008 I was on my way to Wembley for the Carling Cup final. I happened to sit down in a carriage full of Chelsea fans who happily sang about running around Wembley with their genitalia hanging out so they could prove they had a foreskin. The song ended with a hissing sound. The fact their football club is owned and bankrolled by a Russian Jew was clearly lost on them. Israeli international Yossi Benayoun was also booed by a small section of the club’s fans last season, leading the club to launch an anti-Semitism investigation.

Heading to Upton Park on the Tube, we sat in silence as West Ham fans chanted: “We paid Hitler’s gas bill, we paid Hitler’s gas bill.”

They finished with a rousing rendition of: “Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler’s going to gas them again,” to the tune of our very own ‘Spurs are on their way to Wembley’.

Then a West Ham fan was arrested at White Hart Lane last season for deciding to Nazi salute in the away end. Of course, West Ham’s Jewish owners rightly condemned the gesture, but sadly the minority who chant such songs will not take any notice.

This is the tip of the iceberg. Head to YouTube and you can watch as proud fans capture fellow supporters enjoying a little bit of anti-Semitism at various grounds around the country – all aimed at Spurs fans of course, even though we are not playing. It is almost as if, to a very small minority of fans, this is as enjoyable as the football. Spurs fans were also targeted in bars by far-right groups during European away trips last season.

I often wonder if the likes of Baddiel, Herbert, the FA and others believe this will all stop if Tottenham Hotspur fans stop referring to themselves as ‘Yids’.

Of course it won’t, but they have no idea how to combat the extreme anti-Semitism aimed in our direction. The FA has long skirted around issues rather than tackling the root cause. English football’s governing body believes a gesture is needed and that is exactly what this is.

It is impossible to prosecute a Spurs fan calling a player they idolise or fellow fans a ‘Yid’ because no hate crime has been committed. You could fill Wood Green Crown Court every week with 20,000 Spurs fans and not one would be convicted for using the word in an offensive manner.

Jay-Z would not be arrested at his concert for using the ‘N’ word. If I called someone that on Twitter I would expect to face prosecution.

Education is the key.

Perhaps when the anti-Semitism from rival fans has stopped, Spurs fans will not feel the need to use the ‘Y' word anymore. But until the FA and whoever else has solved that issue, Spurs fans will continue to turn a negative into a wonderful positive.

 

[Rorschach]

Hi guys, been a while since I posted on here. Used to comment under the name of Supporter. The Y word issue has forced me back.

Read this opinion piece, thought it was pretty spot on: http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/10674357.Opinion__Football_Association_s__Y_word__stance_will_not_solve_a_darker_issue/

I can still remember queuing up full of excitement.

I would hand over £4 for the privilege of standing in the Paxton End, 50p for a programme, 50p for a burger and then my 90 minutes with Glenn Hoddle could begin.

Going to Spurs in the early 80s had a lot going for it. Cheap, plenty of trophies (three in four years) and wonderful footballers.

I always positioned myself very close to the front of the terrace so you could hear the players shout when we had a corner. Travelling to the game was much easier than now and, when my dad couldn’t join us, he would drop me and my friend off by the West Stand gates and pick us up at 5pm.

By 1986 I had started to take more of an interest in the chants. I remember listening to a group of lads singing the Clive Allen song that I was desperate to learn the words to. It was then that I heard one shout: “Yiiiddddooosss”. I couldn’t make it out exactly. Everyone joined in, as did I, rather embarrassingly chanting: “Yeeeeoooowww”, until my friend set me straight.

“It’s Yido,” he said under his breath, looking around to see if anyone heard me.

“What does that mean?” I replied.

“I don’t know, but it’s what we sing.”

“Ok, okay. Yiiidddoooosss.”

I carried on singing it without a second thought. Chants of ‘Yid Army’ followed and then my personal favourite - a fan would shout: “Somebody give me a Y”, he would carry on until he had completed the word ‘Yido’. We would all repeat the letters, and then jump around chanting the word. I remember doing this for almost 20 minutes non-stop at Loftus Road.

Fast forward a few years and I had now found out what the word meant and I understood why we chanted it. It was 1994 and the terraces had been replaced by seats. The seats were more expensive and the football was much less entertaining. The trophies and the top three league finishes were not quite as common either.

Despite this, I renewed my season ticket with my friend and found myself sitting next to a new fan on my right. He was Jewish. He loved chanting ‘Yid Army’. He did, however, confess that he once muttered the word at home and was told in no uncertain terms by his father never to use it again. He ignored this order when he was at Spurs with his brother.

And that has remained the problem for years since. Spurs fans do not intend to offend anyone by using the word ‘Yid’. They never have, despite understanding that it may offend some.

It was first used by fans who sought to turn a negative into a positive, much like American rappers did with the ‘N’ word.

I went to watch Spurs at the Liberty Stadium in Swansea a few years ago and when they scored they chanted about being “sheep sh*ggers”. I’m sure that term would offend some Welsh people, but clearly the fans who sing it are not intending to upset their own community.

And that is the issue with the Football Association’s stance.

For the police to arrest and charge someone with a hate crime - surely hate must play a part?

It seems every year someone sparks this debate and every year it disappears and everything carries on as before. First David Baddiel, then Peter Herbert and now the FA.

I am sure their intentions are good, but simply stopping Spurs fans calling themselves ‘Yid Army’ will not eradicate the bizarre and disgusting anti-Semitism spouted in their direction by supporters of other London clubs.

Perhaps, as a Chelsea fan, it is easier for Mr Baddiel to blame Spurs fans when he hears sick chants at Stamford Bridge, even when Tottenham are not the visiting team.

In 2006 the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust asked the FA to create a programme aimed at educating fans of opposing teams about the word and its origins in a bid to stop them using it. The FA did nothing.

Education is exactly what is needed. And badly.

When Arsenal signed Mesut Ozil earlier this month one fan took to Twitter to say: “Yes, another German at Arsenal. Welcome Ozil. F**k off yids. #Nazis”

The account has since been deleted.

Anti Semitism aimed at Spurs fans is rife on Twitter. Just search the ‘Y word’… In 2008 I was on my way to Wembley for the Carling Cup final. I happened to sit down in a carriage full of Chelsea fans who happily sang about running around Wembley with their genitalia hanging out so they could prove they had a foreskin. The song ended with a hissing sound. The fact their football club is owned and bankrolled by a Russian Jew was clearly lost on them. Israeli international Yossi Benayoun was also booed by a small section of the club’s fans last season, leading the club to launch an anti-Semitism investigation.

Heading to Upton Park on the Tube, we sat in silence as West Ham fans chanted: “We paid Hitler’s gas bill, we paid Hitler’s gas bill.”

They finished with a rousing rendition of: “Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz, Hitler’s going to gas them again,” to the tune of our very own ‘Spurs are on their way to Wembley’.

Then a West Ham fan was arrested at White Hart Lane last season for deciding to Nazi salute in the away end. Of course, West Ham’s Jewish owners rightly condemned the gesture, but sadly the minority who chant such songs will not take any notice.

This is the tip of the iceberg. Head to YouTube and you can watch as proud fans capture fellow supporters enjoying a little bit of anti-Semitism at various grounds around the country – all aimed at Spurs fans of course, even though we are not playing. It is almost as if, to a very small minority of fans, this is as enjoyable as the football. Spurs fans were also targeted in bars by far-right groups during European away trips last season.

I often wonder if the likes of Baddiel, Herbert, the FA and others believe this will all stop if Tottenham Hotspur fans stop referring to themselves as ‘Yids’.

Of course it won’t, but they have no idea how to combat the extreme anti-Semitism aimed in our direction. The FA has long skirted around issues rather than tackling the root cause. English football’s governing body believes a gesture is needed and that is exactly what this is.

It is impossible to prosecute a Spurs fan calling a player they idolise or fellow fans a ‘Yid’ because no hate crime has been committed. You could fill Wood Green Crown Court every week with 20,000 Spurs fans and not one would be convicted for using the word in an offensive manner.

Jay-Z would not be arrested at his concert for using the ‘N’ word. If I called someone that on Twitter I would expect to face prosecution.

Education is the key.

Perhaps when the anti-Semitism from rival fans has stopped, Spurs fans will not feel the need to use the ‘Y' word anymore. But until the FA and whoever else has solved that issue, Spurs fans will continue to turn a negative into a wonderful positive.

There you go. This piece pretty much cuts to the core of it. Thanks for posting.

 

[the fox in the box]

There you go. This piece pretty much cuts to the core of it. Thanks for posting.

indeed, spectacular post summing up everything I couldnt say

 

[Robbo]

Case closed then?

David Cameron: Yid is not hate speech when it’s Spurs

Spurs fans who use the word “Yid” in terrace chants should not be prosecuted — as long as they are not motivated by hate, according to David Cameron.

The Prime Minister reignited the row over the use of the word when he made clear his view, which contradicts the Football Association and Jewish groups who have been insisting it is always offensive.

Many Jewish and non-Jewish Tottenham fans refer to themselves as the “Yid army” and to players as “Yiddos”.

The FA issued new guidance last week which suggested that fans using the term could be liable to criminal charges.

The FA said that the word “is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer” and is “inappropriate in a football setting”.

It went on: “Use of the term in a public setting could amount to a criminal offence, and leave those fans liable to prosecution and potentially a lengthy football banning order.”

Both the Board of Deputies and the Community Security Trust said they backed the FA’s statement.

But when asked by the JC if Spurs fans who call themselves Yids should be prosecuted, Mr Cameron said: “You have to think of the mens rea. There’s a difference between Spurs fans self-describing themselves as Yids and someone calling someone a Yid as an insult.

“You have to be motivated by hate. Hate speech should be prosecuted — but only when it’s motivated by hate.”

Mr Cameron also said that he hoped to visit Israel before the next election in 2015, describing it as “a gap in my Prime Ministership that I haven’t been and I very much hope to fill it”.

He said he particularly wanted to go so that he could take his wife, Samantha, who has never been to Israel: “That view of the Mount of Olives is a reminder of what the Abrahamic faiths have in common.”

 

[josferatu]

I never thought of it as being racist in any way until it was brought up recently. To me it's always been an honour bestowed upon anyone Spurs, player or fan. As said above, it's been used for so long nobody really considered it bad any longer.

Should NZ stop referring to themselves as the All Blacks or Sunderland as Black Cats? Where do they draw the line?

The All Blacks and Black Cats names having nothing to do with race though