Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

[Modric THFC]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

How come Everton are only ahead of us on goal difference, having spent considerable amounts this summer to get the players Martinez wanted? He's already had a whole season to implement his ideas and made minimal changes to the squad.

Rodgers was another one we should have gotten over AVB. How's he doing?

Didnt want either of these. We should have got an older guy that knows whats he's doing.
Not a gamble on a Manager with his first big club.

As for Redknapp we didnt sack him quick enough.
How's Ancellotti doing. Should have come in when we had the chance. He was willing to come to us. I believe he still has a house in London.
How's Bielsa doing? At least Bielsa would give us a 3 hour press conference boring everyone to death explaining what he's trying to do in detail.

 

[Andyandy]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Didnt want either of these. We should have got an older guy that knows whats he's doing.
Not a gamble on a Manager with his first big club.

As for Redknapp we didnt sack him quick enough.
How's Ancellotti doing. Should have come in when we had the chance. He was willing to come to us. I believe he still has a house in London.
How's Bielsa doing? At least Bielsa would give us a 3 hour press conference boring everyone to death explaining what he's trying to do in detail.

You can't judge a good manager on a season, even three seasons of football. They can suffer from luck in terms of injuries to key players/referee errors etc.

We seem to want manager of the moment rather than experience.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I am actually struggling to see what that 'system' is, as it's clear we're not doing any pressing of the opposition. In just about every game so far the opposition have out worked us in this respect (I would say with the exception of QPR and Sunderland - who both took the other option and sat off of us completely). Teams (especially all other than the top 4 or 5) used to come to WHL, sit back, park the bus and hope to nick something. Now even the Stoke's, WBAs and Saudi Sportswashing Machine's of this World are instead coming to WHL and outplaying us.

People (me included) are concerned by the lack of defensive shape and discipline, but I am even more concerned by our lack of ability to create chances - especially when we seemingly have so many attacking players on the pitch.

We have and games where we have created plenty of chances to be fair

My concern is we seem to play a 2-2- 4-1-1 system with the full backs being in the 4 and us still not using 80% of the pitch

Were not pressing at all although Lamella is trying

Were not defending from the front at all and we can't defend from the back

We have one man clearly so isolated he spend the game on the wing where none of our attacking midfield 3 are

And those 3 spend the whole game on top of each other in some bizarre infatuation with each other (Townsend even managed it yesterday)

Personally I'd simplify the system and adapt it over time with the players that suit it. That way I would keep my job and have time to implement this magically progress that people seem to think we can achieve

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

We have and games where we have created plenty of chances to be fair

In which league games though? I doubt we've had any more than 2 or 3 chances in each of our home games (other than QPR).

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

He was at the game yesterday.

Oh a penny for his thoughts...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

One thing you have to give Harry, whenever our chips go down his name rises here like a Phoenix from the flames. It's amazing! Wish I could laugh...the game's greatest snake oil chancer...BTW I will get his second book as I'm sure it's fun!

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Scara - I don't think you answered my question from last night. So I'll ask again.... Why do you feel that this group of players are now a 'bunch of losers' whereas in the second half of last season you felt our manager was under achieving with those same players? (and we've actually gone and spent about £30 million since then)

Are the players perhaps not that bad after all and our current manager is simply getting nowhere near the best out of them? Or was our caretaker manager in the second half of last season actually doing a good job with 'a bunch of losers'?

Bunch of losers was probably a bit harsh - unmotivated is certainly fair though. The manager has to take his share of the blame for that, just like the last one.

I think our players are good enough to do far better than they are. Unfortunately, any semblance of a system that had been built was ruined in the second half of last season. It'll take some time to repair it - I hope Poch is the man to do it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

In which league games though? I doubt we've had any more than 2 or 3 chances in each of our home games (other than QPR).

The game that springs to mind was City away but obviously that's not at home

 

[Roy1983]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Here's another question. Who should we have appointed once HR was sacked instead of AVB?

 

[the dza]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Here's another question. Who should we have appointed once HR was sacked instead of AVB?

I always wanted Benitez -- the man knows how to win a cup. But that ship has long since sailed.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Here's another question. Who should we have appointed once HR was sacked instead of AVB?

Bielsa.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Martinez, Rodgers, Benitez, Pulis. What they all have in common is a poor record in the transfer market. I wouldn't have minded the latter two if they had minimal say on transfers. (ie. no ex-Liverpool players/unknown Spaniards for Benitez). Pulis is just another Redknapp, overpriced, aging, PL proven players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Bunch of losers was probably a bit harsh - unmotivated is certainly fair though. The manager has to take his share of the blame for that, just like the last one.

I think our players are good enough to do far better than they are. Unfortunately, any semblance of a system that had been built was ruined in the second half of last season. It'll take some time to repair it - I hope Poch is the man to do it.

The 'system' that was ruined in the latter half of last season was a woeful one.... If Pochettino is trying to repair AVBs old system then I really do fear that we're doomed.... 'Serious relegation fears' as I think orebody once said.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Martinez, Rodgers, Benitez, Pulis. What they all have in common is a poor record in the transfer market. I wouldn't have minded the latter two if they had minimal say on transfers. (ie. no ex-Liverpool players/unknown Spaniards for Benitez). Pulis is just another Redknapp, overpriced, aging, PL proven players.

Do they?.... I would say that all have had both successes and failures (just as most managers - including Redknapp - have).... I mean even AVB managed to get one right in signing us Lloris!

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

The 'system' that was ruined in the latter half of last season was a woeful one.... If Pochettino is trying to repair AVBs old system then I really do fear that we're doomed.... 'Serious relegation fears' as I think orebody once said.

The system wasn't there yet. Just like it isn't now.

Just because some fans don't have the self control to show a little patience, doesn't mean it's not the right answer.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Do they?.... I would say that all have had both successes and failures (just as most managers - including Redknapp - have).... I mean even AVB managed to get one right in signing us Lloris!

Martinez, Rodgers and Benitez have a very poor hit rate IMO. Pulis has bought just about the right level of players for his teams, but they've been costly.

I don't think Lloris was AVB's signing at all. We've been watching him since Comolli was at the club.

 

[DHSF]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

The system wasn't there yet. Just like it isn't now.

Just because some fans don't have the self control to show a little patience, doesn't mean it's not the right answer.

You miss the point. People have no patience in a system that is showing no progress. You are mistaking progress for the end result. Dont think many expect the end result to have been achieved by now but success in progress yes... right now we have shown no progression in the last three years and im talking about on the pitch activities.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

You can't judge a good manager on a season, even three seasons of football. They can suffer from luck in terms of injuries to key players/referee errors etc.

We seem to want manager of the moment rather than experience.

Levy judged Poch on 54 League games for Southampton.
19 wins in 54 games. 35.19 win %
Now its 4 wins in 11 games for us. 36.36 win %

 

[billyiddo]

So, the big elephant in the room...

You miss the point. People have no patience in a system that is showing no progress. You are mistaking progress for the end result. Dont think many expect the end result to have been achieved by now but success in progress yes... right now we have shown no progression in the last three years and im talking about on the pitch activities.

How long should you give something before deciding no progress is being made?

Does no progress after 11 games mean we can't expect to see any after 15/20/25?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

You miss the point. People have no patience in a system that is showing no progress. You are mistaking progress for the end result. Dont think many expect the end result to have been achieved by now but success in progress yes... right now we have shown no progression in the last three years and im talking about on the pitch activities.

Not all systems have clear paths of progression. Fewer still progress in anything like a straight line.

There's a very good chance that irregular progression would look like no progression at all to the unknowing or unwilling.

What if, for example, a manager looked at Spurs and (quite rightly) decided that we were defensively disorganised and mentally weak late in games. What if that manager then fixed those problems but hadn't yet fixed (either by coaching or replacement of players) the issue with individual errors. That team would look to many as if it were going nowhere (or even backwards) despite having two of the club's most persistent problems fixed.

Look at Mercedes GP - their car needed a complete overhaul and their team went backwards massively to get there. It was worth the pain though, they're currently the best in the world.