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Eric Dier

Lilbaz said:
There were rumours that he wanted to sit tight and only accept a loan. In order to leave on a free. That's why i think we can't allow that. All fringe players will start doing it. Hoping they either get a loan or tear their contracts up.
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That's exactly what Dier will do. The only way we might be able to stop that is making him train with the under 21s and be absolutely clear that he will not be playing a single first team game for Spurs this season. Whether or not Dier stays and goes on a free or gets loaned out will have no bearing on what players do in the future. Unwanted players who still have a contract paying them more than they will earn anywhere else in the world have all the power.
 
Lilbaz said:
The reports are we turned it down. Not dier.
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The reports won't have a clue, they will be 90% made up. We may have turned it down because Burnley would only cover 25% of his wages. We may have turned it down because Burnley only wanted to pay his wages if he played X number of first team games. Dier may have said that he would go to Burnley if Spurs gave him £2 million as an effective golden goodbye.... Who knows?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’ve not seen any reports on loans for him
But he is holding the cards now
He knows we will release him next week
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If we release him next week, we have rewarded him for making life difficult for us. This sets a precedent for all players that there are no consequences for that. That cannot be allowed to happen.

It is within his prerogative to do what he is doing - a contract is a contract.

Equally, it is our prerogative to stick him in the U21s, clear out his locker from the first team training areas and bar him from access, deregister him and leave him playing U21s footie for a year.

If his career suffers because of that, he should have thought of that before deciding to stick it out.
 
DubaiSpur said:
If we release him next week, we have rewarded him for making life difficult for us. This sets a precedent for all players that there are no consequences for that. That cannot be allowed to happen.

It is within his prerogative to do what he is doing - a contract is a contract.

Equally, it is our prerogative to stick him in the U21s, clear out his locker from the first team training areas and bar him from access, deregister him and leave him playing U21s footie for a year.

If his career suffers because of that, he should have thought of that before deciding to stick it out.
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The club didn’t do that with other players we wanted rid of
The club is a mess at making players wanna leave
 
Why are people so hellbent on it being the U21’s?

If you don’t rate Dier, surely you don’t think he’s gonna help the U21’s either, so it’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It’s wholly illogical.
 
Baleforce said:
Why are people so hellbent on it being the U21’s?

If you don’t rate Dier, surely you don’t think he’s gonna help the U21’s either, so it’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It’s wholly illogical.
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Because my understanding is that if we just tell him not to show up to training at all, he can sue us for not providing him a platform to train and/or play as per the terms of any football contract.

Which is why clubs banish players to the U21s instead - technically they are still providing players access to facilities, games, etc., but it is the clearest sign a club can give that they are done with that player.

Nothing to do with the U21s, they're just collateral damage here.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Will be interesting to see what happens with all the Chelsea signings on 7/8 year contracts
Most won’t play
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They're much, much, much better than us at selling their deadwood, though. So I don't think they'll have a problem mate. Or just loan them out year after year, also an option - beyond the amortization of the initial purchase cost, as long as a club picks up the full wage it's zero expense to Chelsea for that year.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Because my understanding is that if we just tell him not to show up to training at all, he can sue us for not providing him a platform to train and/or play as per the terms of any football contract.

Which is why clubs banish players to the U21s instead - technically they are still providing players access to facilities, games, etc., but it is the clearest sign a club can give that they are done with that player.

Nothing to do with the U21s, they're just collaterals damage here.
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How is that acceptable, how many careers are you potentially affecting, what are the long term costs of that?

Surely preferable to have him in the main squad, but not registered in the league squad?

He’s clearly not a disruptive influence, else he would have been put on gardening leave.
 
DubaiSpur said:
They're much, much, much better than us at selling their deadwood, though. So I don't think they'll have a problem mate. Or just loan them out year after year, also an option - beyond the amortization of the initial purchase cost, as long as a club picks up the full wage it's zero expense to Chelsea for that year.
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Are they?
Have they sold any of the new breed that they have massively overpaid for yet?
They won’t be making money on any of them
 
Baleforce said:
How is that acceptable, how many careers are you potentially affecting, what are the long term costs of that?
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Careers affected - depends. If he goes to the U21s and gets benched even there (certainly possible given how atrocious he is), the only career he'd be affecting is the CB whose spot he takes on the bench.

If he plays, same thing - he'd only take the spot of whichever CB would be playing instead of him.

As for what he would do to the kids' mentality, well, part of becoming a responsible adult is to ignore bad influences, keep your head down and work. Consider Dier moping around one more lesson for the kids to learn from in that respect.

And, think of the benefits - if Dier spends one full year utterly demolishing his fitness, appeal to other clubs and career by moping around in uncompetitive U21 games, it is a great example to other wastes of space like him in the future that the club can make things quite unpleasant (legally so) if they don't wise up and move on. Setting that precedent is worth its weight in gold, imo.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Careers affected - depends. If he goes to the U21s and gets benched even there (certainly possible given how atrocious he is), the only career he'd be affecting is the CB whose spot he takes on the bench.

If he plays, same thing - he'd only take the spot of whichever CB would be playing instead of him.

As for what he would do to the kids' mentality, well, part of becoming a responsible adult is to ignore bad influences, keep your head down and work. Consider Dier moping around one more lesson for the kids to learn from in that respect.

And, think of the benefits - if Dier spends one full year utterly demolishing his fitness, appeal to other clubs and career by moping around in uncompetitive U21 games, it is a great example to other wastes of space like him in the future that the club can make things quite unpleasant (legally so) if they don't wise up and move on. Setting that precedent is worth its weight in gold, imo.
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he's a model pro, he's not gonna do any of that

all you achieve, is making the U21's think being with them is a punishment, and you show other players in the squad, and potential future signings, that the relationship will only be one way, and they will be treated like brick when you have a new shiny

there is no logical upside to it

strong employee retention is something to be proud of in any industry
 
Baleforce said:
he's a model pro, he's not gonna do any of that

all you achieve, is making the U21's think being with them is a punishment, and you show other players in the squad, and potential future signings, that the relationship will only be one way, and they will be treated like brick when you have a new shiny

there is no logical upside to it

strong employee retention is something to be proud of in any industry
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We do not have it, since all our best players generally want to leave anyway - thanks to our uncompetitive ownership model and crippling lack of success.

The ones who want to stay are generally the malingering wastes of space who know their only way is down. Retaining those employees is a net negative to the organization.

I have worked with and overseen folks I would have loved to fire, but couldn't. I have also overseen folks I would have done anything to keep, but couldn't.

That we have sold our greatest ever player and kept useless garbage like Dier, Sanchez and Ndombele tells me we are on the wrong side of this calculation.

As for the rest of it, that is precisely the point mate - getting the point across to the rest that our patience with these dossers has limits. An ambitious player will not be deterred by that - and for those who are, they lack the mentality we need, and we are better off without them.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Are they?
Have they sold any of the new breed that they have massively overpaid for yet?
They won’t be making money on any of them
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Well, they only started buying them last year, so give them time on that. In general they do a magnificent job selling players though - I think they are the club that has made by far the most through selling unwanted players these last ten years.
 
DubaiSpur said:
We do not have it, since all our best players generally want to leave anyway - thanks to our uncompetitive ownership model and crippling lack of success.

The ones who want to stay are generally the malingering wastes of space who know their only way is down. Retaining those employees is a net negative to the organization.

I have worked with and overseen folks I would have loved to fire, but couldn't. I have also overseen folks I would have done anything to keep, but couldn't.

That we have sold our greatest ever player and kept useless garbage like Dier, Sanchez and Ndombele tells me we are on the wrong side of this calculation.

As for the rest of it, that is precisely the point mate - getting the point across to the rest that our patience with these dossers has limits. An ambitious player will not be deterred by that - and for those who are, they lack the mentality we need, and we are better off without them.
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they are not dossers, they are valued employees in the organisation, who are keeping up their side of their contractual obligations and being paid accordingly

two parties sign a contract
 
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