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Eric Dier

billyiddo said:
Just had a look in to our transfers at CB since we left WHL

17/18 : Sanchez
18/19: N/A
19/20 : N/A
20/21 : Rodon
21/22 : Romero

Essentially there was no succession planning for the departures of Vertonghen & Alderweireld and we've still not addressed the position adequately.

Sanchez was an attempt to plan for life after them i suppose it's fair to say, but by the time they had moved on it was obvious he was not at the level required - and here we are still relying on 2 players that were back ups during our best years. Not Dier or Davies fault that the club haven't strengthened adequately over a number of years, but if we're going to move forwards we to start upgrading these positions across the team.
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Don’t forget we brought in wimmer who actually looked good here IMO
 
Junior19 said:
We all want upgrades! On most positions.
Ok, so we upgrade Dier with player X, who is fractionally better on some aspects, equal on other, and fractionally worse on others. That still leaves us with liabilities in the positions behind him. Main problem as I see it is the lack of quality in depth. It has several knock-on effects, mainly that our first string players _cannot_ be rested as much as they should, "rest" usually means they are already injured. Secondly, lack of _real_ competition is a weakness.

I'm certain that had Dier (and Romero, for that matter) had a genuine competition for the position it would do them good.
Replacing Dier now, without fixing that, only shifts the problem a notch instead of solving it.
So unless we can (by magic, hypnosis, or plain witchcraft from Conte) make Davinson Sanches a consistent, safe and thrustworthy player, we need to start the replacement process in that end, not the other way around.

Sure, there are better defenders than Dier out there.
However, strip away those who do not want/need to move (ie. already at so-called "bigger" clubs and are first choice/regulars there) and those who are first choice at our peers, and you're left with those few who are either a slight upgrade, a talent or a gamble. The rest are just same sh*t, different wrapping, in my opinion.

The potential to upgrade our second string to someone who can genuinely challenge our first choice players are much better. If Dier should find such a challenge to his position to much to handle, and wants to leave, thats a different matter.
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I definitely agree. I think most that want Dier "replaced" want him replaced in the starting lineup, but to remain as a squad player.
 
billyiddo said:
Just had a look in to our transfers at CB since we left WHL

17/18 : Sanchez
18/19: N/A
19/20 : N/A
20/21 : Rodon
21/22 : Romero

Essentially there was no succession planning for the departures of Vertonghen & Alderweireld and we've still not addressed the position adequately.

Sanchez was an attempt to plan for life after them i suppose it's fair to say, but by the time they had moved on it was obvious he was not at the level required - and here we are still relying on 2 players that were back ups during our best years. Not Dier or Davies fault that the club haven't strengthened adequately over a number of years, but if we're going to move forwards we to start upgrading these positions across the team.
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Foyth was signed in 17/18 too I think?

Some attempts there to plan for the future, but ultimately unsuccessful.

Quite happy with Lenglet. Very happy with Romero. Another signing somewhere in the Romero to Lenglet range of quality would do us a lot of good.
 
braineclipse said:
I definitely agree. I think most that want Dier "replaced" want him replaced in the starting lineup, but to remain as a squad player.
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100%. Dier is capable of playing multiple positions, to a standard.

If we can find a potential first choice CCB who can play LCB as well. We then have new man and Dier for CCB and Dier and Romero for RCB. New guy and Davies for LCB.

I would include Lenglet but it's hard to confirm if we'd sign him permanently because of wages (although Barca are in a new hole since blowing out of the CL).

Of course Rodon could come back from Rennes looking more ready (at least for the squad).

Sanchez, Japhet ...to leave.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
100%. Dier is capable of playing multiple positions, to a standard.

If we can find a potential first choice CCB who can play LCB as well. We then have new man and Dier for CCB and Dier and Romero for RCB. New guy and Davies for LCB.

I would include Lenglet but it's hard to confirm if we'd sign him permanently because of wages (although Barca are in a new hole since blowing out of the CL).

Of course Rodon could come back from Rennes looking more ready (at least for the squad).

Sanchez, Japhet ...to leave.
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I think Lenglet is ours if we want him and it makes sense to get him because his passing is very good
Add one player who can play centre and we’re better
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
100%. Dier is capable of playing multiple positions, to a standard.

If we can find a potential first choice CCB who can play LCB as well. We then have new man and Dier for CCB and Dier and Romero for RCB. New guy and Davies for LCB.

I would include Lenglet but it's hard to confirm if we'd sign him permanently because of wages (although Barca are in a new hole since blowing out of the CL).

Of course Rodon could come back from Rennes looking more ready (at least for the squad).

Sanchez, Japhet ...to leave.
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Dier's recent performances at RCB makes things a bit easier for sure. Someone capable of playing both CCB and either side would be good actually. Even just a new RCB option would strengthen us, but any new signing only capable of playing there would struggle for game time if Romero can stay fit so not a good solution.

I think it would have to be someone really good to replace Dier at CCB. But we need another ball playing option anyway so should obviously try to get the best possible player.
 
El Guepardo said:
Conte plays Dier as we don’t have a better alternative. Hopefully he will look for an upgrade in the January transfer window.

Pochettino played Dier in defensive midfield or right back.

I don’t rate Nuno or Southgate as top level managers. Mourinho was a top level manager and I’m sure he spoke out about how weak our defence was and that we kept making basic defensive mistakes and Dier was part of that unit. He also had an even more defensive stance than Conte. We sat back almost all game towards the end of his tenure. All that coming from the collapse against West Ham due to defensive mistakes.

I appreciate that you stand and support all of our players @thfcsteff. You are a good man, a good supporter, but I can’t agree with you on the appraisal of Eric Dier here.
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I support all player in our shirt, yes, but I do not want them all here/would like some upgraded. Sess is fast-tracking to that list for me (for example). As does happen, we will have to agree to disagree re: Dier. BTW, general point, who wouldn’t turn down an improvement on a player in our side? If we can improve on Dier, great, I am all in. Thing is, no-one has mentioned replacements we can get who are that much better.
 
thfcsteff said:
I support all player in our shirt, yes, but I do not want them all here/would like some upgraded. Sess is fast-tracking to that list for me (for example). As does happen, we will have to agree to disagree re: Dier. BTW, general point, who wouldn’t turn down an improvement on a player in our side? If we can improve on Dier, great, I am all in. Thing is, no-one has mentioned replacements we can get who are that much better.
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Spot on. Love Dier or hate Dier, he is here and he is trusted. Is he upgradeable? ABSOLUTELY. Until that time, Conte trusts him despite his odd brain farts and what they cost us. And giving him pelters shows a small-minded mentality with little to no appreciation of his levels of application, dedication and skill.
 
glasgowspur said:
Jan and toby were always going to be a tough act to follow, our lack of effort there is baffling.
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Jan and Toby is the standard we measure ourselves against. They weren't overpriced and overrated. Just smart, brave and technical footballers. We didn't have the best defence, but we didn't look stupid conceding goals either.
 
90291Spur said:
Spot on. Love Dier or hate Dier, he is here and he is trusted. Is he upgradeable? ABSOLUTELY. Until that time, Conte trusts him despite his odd brain farts and what they cost us. And giving him pelters shows a small-minded mentality with little to no appreciation of his levels of application, dedication and skill.
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Same logic should apply to Royal, right?
If not why?
 
braineclipse said:
I definitely agree. I think most that want Dier "replaced" want him replaced in the starting lineup, but to remain as a squad player.
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This is my take also - good utility player to have in reserve to cover CCB/RCB and would likely get plenty of games doing so over a season.

braineclipse said:
Foyth was signed in 17/18 too I think?

Some attempts there to plan for the future, but ultimately unsuccessful.

Quite happy with Lenglet. Very happy with Romero. Another signing somewhere in the Romero to Lenglet range of quality would do us a lot of good.
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Yeah for some reason i looked at Foyth and considered him a RB even though i know he was initially signed as a CB :confused:

I guess the same take i had for Sanchez applies here, by the time Vertonghen was known to be leaving we already knew neither player was up to the job of replacing him or Toby.

Wrt Lenglet - hasn't struck me as the answer to our problems tbh despite doing ok/well and I'd be surprised at this stage id we go for the deal, I'd expect Bastoni/Gvardiol level signings at CB if we are to back Conte to the level he wants.
 
metalgear said:
Same logic should apply to Royal, right?
If not why?
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Same logic applies to all our players, when it comes to supporting them in our shirt. That is rather the point.
And as many states here, we (or most of us, at least) would _love_ upgrades in every position untill we have GOATS on all 11 spots, and future GOATS on every squad position. But it is not very realistic, is it? :)

So is it ok to discuss upgrading players? Sure it is. It is a part of the game, and a natural thing. But support our players 100% while they are our players. And wish them well when they move on. (unless they do a rSol-move, that is..).

However, certain players are more easy to find clear, realistic and immediate upgrade-candidates for. Either due to better fit to current system, or just plain upgrade in skill-sets.
 
metalgear said:
Jan and Toby is the standard we measure ourselves against. They weren't overpriced and overrated. Just smart, brave and technical footballers. We didn't have the best defence, but we didn't look stupid conceding goals either.
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They knew each others game better than any partnership I’ve seen
 
thfcsteff said:
I support all player in our shirt, yes, but I do not want them all here/would like some upgraded. Sess is fast-tracking to that list for me (for example). As does happen, we will have to agree to disagree re: Dier. BTW, general point, who wouldn’t turn down an improvement on a player in our side? If we can improve on Dier, great, I am all in. Thing is, no-one has mentioned replacements we can get who are that much better.
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I think where we differ in opinion is that I don't think it particularly difficult to upgrade on Dier or Sanchez. I see quite a few PL CBs that I feel can and would do a better job than them. If we spread our net wider to Europe then there are many. They are ok players, but neither are top 20 in their postion. Its arguable if they even top 50.
 
billyiddo said:
Yeah for some reason i looked at Foyth and considered him a RB even though i know he was initially signed as a CB :confused:

I guess the same take i had for Sanchez applies here, by the time Vertonghen was known to be leaving we already knew neither player was up to the job of replacing him or Toby.

Wrt Lenglet - hasn't struck me as the answer to our problems tbh despite doing ok/well and I'd be surprised at this stage id we go for the deal, I'd expect Bastoni/Gvardiol level signings at CB if we are to back Conte to the level he wants.
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Agreed on Sanchez.

I would love another top class CB. There's not many of them and often they're rather expensive.

If we can sign Bastoni we probably won't keep Lenglet. In a way I agree, Lenglet isn't the answer to get to where we want to be. But there are many ways to get to where we want to be and that may include players at that kind of level to. A right footed Lenglet added to the squad to take the game time otherwise taken up by Sanchez would improve us significantly.

That could make it possible to get to where we want to be by strengthening further in other positions. Of course the safer bet would be all top level players in, but I'm not sure that's realistic.

If we could be given the choice between a top level RWB alongside a Lenglet level new CB or a top level CB I probably would go for the former. Just as an example.
 
Bishop said:
I think where we differ in opinion is that I don't think it particularly difficult to upgrade on Dier or Sanchez. I see quite a few PL CBs that I feel can and would do a better job than them. If we spread our net wider to Europe then there are many. They are ok players, but neither are top 20 in their postion. Its arguable if they even top 50.
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Appreciated for sure, and am interested in a few names from the PL (as much for comparison)?
 
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