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Eric Dier

papaspur said:
It's not so much that Dier has haters; it's that he has unconditional lovers/fanboys. I'm not saying it's uncool to have a crush on him, that's totally acceptable. No need to attack other people's opinions about any player as long as they're being respectful and aiming for objectivity.
Agreed about Dier being the best (fit) CB at the club now. IMO, Romero will be better but obviously not the case if he can't even play. Can even understand that his CB partners aren't exactly making Dier's job any easier. I do appreciate his passing range though even if he's no Toby.
I guess that's a good segue into the crux of my point (and possibly that of other posters here): we went from having Jan and Toby who were really good at what they did, to Eric and Davinson. Even assuming Romero were fit, that's still a downgrade from what we used to have IMO. Now with a different system, it's slightly apples and oranges.

Just to reiterate because people generally enjoy a good strawman argument:
  • I don't think anyone here hates Dier. I can't speak for everyone but if anyone here actually does hate Dier, tell us why!
  • On the contrary, I'd love for him to succeed but I do think he will need to be improved upon at some point. Don't think we should sell him, he would be a great squad player to have around. Not urgent for January, but maybe at the end of the season.
  • As for captain, maybe... I think Son would be a better fit but I could be wrong about that. Can't justify Kane being captain at this point unfortunately, PEH can be too much of a spaz and Skipp is too young.
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Toby and Jan are arguably the best CB pairing we have ever had as a club. I mean theh literally played in World Cup finals whilst being spurs players as well as the champions league final. That’s the benchmark to aspire too for any group of CBS now

Dier has haters and fan boys. The fan boys are more honest about their position that the haters are IMO when it comes to Dier

this season he has been one of our better players but hasn’t been perfect.

someone on a pod the other day compared him to Mabbutt in that he lived back from CM to CB over time and wasn’t popular in that position for a period until her convinced people and excelled there (I’m not old enough to qualify those comments).
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Toby and Jan are arguably the best CB pairing we have ever had as a club. I mean theh literally played in World Cup finals whilst being spurs players as well as the champions league final. That’s the benchmark to aspire too for any group of CBS now

Dier has haters and fan boys. The fan boys are more honest about their position that the haters are IMO when it comes to Dier

this season he has been one of our better players but hasn’t been perfect.

someone on a pod the other day compared him to Mabbutt in that he lived back from CM to CB over time and wasn’t popular in that position for a period until her convinced people and excelled there (I’m not old enough to qualify those comments).
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I think I'm far from a hater but I also don't think he's great in the long run. He makes enough mistakes and errors in judgement for me to remain unconvinced by him. At the same time he has been pretty good this season and very reliable. He's mostly gotten away with his mistakes so far this season which is fine, the better players tend to make smaller mistakes or mistakes in areas that aren't so critical.

So I think there is a bit of a middle ground further than just haters and fanboys.
 
Bishop said:
I think I'm far from a hater but I also don't think he's great in the long run. He makes enough mistakes and errors in judgement for me to remain unconvinced by him. At the same time he has been pretty good this season and very reliable. He's mostly gotten away with his mistakes so far this season which is fine, the better players tend to make smaller mistakes or mistakes in areas that aren't so critical.

So I think there is a bit of a middle ground further than just haters and fanboys.
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I think he is poor in the air (often jumps under the ball). Loses his man too often (lost count of the number of times I see a square ball getting played into our box with the opposition's centre forward in acres of space in the middle with Dier in no man's land nowhere near him) not a particularly good passer, has poor touch on the ball and as a result is easily pressed, not brilliant with his positional sense (though definitely improved this season) and isn't particularly fast (especially on the turn).

In saying the above he has definitely improved this season compared to last and if he can continue his trajectory from the past 4 months then by next season he may be good enough to play for a team that wants to be in the top 4. Ultimately though I think his lack of ability on the ball and Conte's penchant for to play 3 at the back will end up costing him his place as with 3 at the back all of the defenders have to be good on the ball really and I think Conte will be looking to sign a CB or two who have that ability as well as possessing some pace (as with our high full backs a ball over the top into the channels can hurt us at present).
 
Like davies, dele and moura he is a good player who for various tactical and positional reasons we aren't/don't always get the best from.
For the last 6 years we have trodden a line with the level of some our players, too good for what we were, not quite good/ready enough for where we want to be.
Under different circumstances i think dier could have been a beast for us.
I love poch and Hugo, but I would have made dier my on field and squad captain. Could have been the making of him.
Hugo and harry vice captain.

Not finished it yet, but someone on the pod said he has been our best player this season, sorry can't agree. Its been Hugo or skipp for, skipp edging it.
 
I personally think Dier is pretty good on the ball for a centre half. He has much more time on the ball as the spare man at the back and he's used that to good effect in recent weeks.

You only need to compare him to Tanganga & Sanchez in league games and when he replaced Rodon against Mura. He's played some excellent long passes through the lines into midfield and beyond. Also not afraid to move forwards with the ball and push into midfield. The occasional turnover will happen when you do that. I don't see much difference on the ball between him & Romero so far. I think we'd do well to improve on his ball playing capabilities. Pace and defending on the turn are certainly weaknesses which could be improved upon but they can be masked as the spare man. I suspect he'll be a mainstay and we have found his niche under Conte.
 
I find the easiest way to judge a player is based on the aspirations of the club vs competitors.

The starters that we currently have had or been in the squad for a decent time:

Lloris
Dier
Davies
Doherty
PEH
Moura
Sanchez
Bergwijn
Winks

Wouldnt get into any of the top 4 teams. Perhaps some of the top 6, and that's about the level we are at currently. I agree Dier gets a lot of stick but that's due to his previous performances. He is looking better this season but I don't think he has it about him to be a top defender. I am only going by what I've seen overall during his career at Spurs. Him like Sanchez, are decent but not great, and can easily be made to look like fodder against good teams.

The people who try to shove it back after a few decent performances against the likes of Norwich, Brentford etc really should look at his performances against quality teams and strikers.
 
Gazza said:
I find the easiest way to judge a player is based on the aspirations of the club vs competitors.

The starters that we currently have had or been in the squad for a decent time:

Lloris
Dier
Davies
Doherty
PEH
Moura
Sanchez
Bergwijn
Winks

Wouldnt get into any of the top 4 teams. Perhaps some of the top 6, and that's about the level we are at currently. I agree Dier gets a lot of stick but that's due to his previous performances. He is looking better this season but I don't think he has it about him to be a top defender. I am only going by what I've seen overall during his career at Spurs. Him like Sanchez, are decent but not great, and can easily be made to look like fodder against good teams.

The people who try to shove it back after a few decent performances against the likes of Norwich, Brentford etc really should look at his performances against quality teams and strikers.
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When you say top 4 presumably you mean Man Utd rather than West Ham. I gotta say when I watch Man U I’m not impressed by Maguire, Lindelof and Bailly. Haven’t seen enough of Varane in a Utd shirt but he seems decent. If they play with a back 4 he doesn’t get in. But he might in a back 3. Also I think Fred is bang average, I’d have PEH ahead of him.

I really don’t watch enough of the other teams to know how good some of the following are:

Chelsea:
Christensen
Chalobah
Azpilicueta - was excellent but squad player now. Don’t know if he’s still good

Liverpool:
Matip
Gomez
Konate

These are the players Dier would need to compete with
 
How good Dier is as of some objective hierarchy of players and how good they are compared to others could be made is of less importance imo.

The question is how good is he in this role, in this system, with these teammates. So far the signs are good. This role seems to fit him well. If he's seen as good enough come the end of the season is still a question in need of an answer, not a conclusion. Same question for several of our players.

Right now he's quite clearly and rightly first choice. At some point there should be competition at the very least, until then I'm more curious about how he will do than convinced either way.
 
Dier can become 'one of the world's best in his position'

Tottenham v West Ham (Wed, 19:45 GMT)

090b5b10-437a-467b-9fa1-16808ae8d27c.jpg

Tottenham Hotspur

Defensive midfielder Eric Dier has started Tottenham's last three Premier League games, helping them claim seven points from a possible nine.

And Spurs boss Antonio Conte said: "He can become one of the best in the world for his position. He needs to keep working hard to continue to improve, to understand the movement of the defensive line."
 
Inspirational stuff from our fantastic new manager. Compare that to the dough eyed shoulder shrugging style of Nuno or the implied "he's useless and there's nothing I can do with these players" attitude of Mourinho - I feel we are really moving in the right direction
 
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