• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Daniel Levy - Chairman

Raziel said:
And please mate, I'll accept Forbes (and we can argue Forbes, vs. Deloitte vs. lesser sources) but please don't quote twitter subs as any real measure of fans (twitter is bot infested and even if it wasn't, the connection between twitter follows and monetizable fans would be a long conversation).
Click to expand...
This is the key for me
People talk about places in Asia driving new money, plus places in Africa.
from my first hand experience what you have is people who already pay because they can afford to, and then people in fake shirts which generates no revenue for the club
There isn’t a halfway house.
Streaming of game is the game changer but we’re a long way from that in the prem
And i say that as the demographic of the Twitter followers for example will be biased to mass population, poor areas
 
Raziel said:
And here are two that contradict that

Brand value ranking football clubs worldwide 2020 | Statista
Tottenham crowned Premier League's most valuable club over Manchester United and Emirates Marketing Project - study | London Evening Standard | Evening Standard
And of course from a Deloitte money league we have been ahead for some time as well.

We can play this game all day mate, but let's keep it simple (to make real evaluation you would need access to the books and plans, you know that)

- Do you really think someone will pay (assuming debt pay off is part of deal) £300/£400M more for one vs the other? and if they did, Arsenal? (I still think you are missing the potential of NFL)
- Book value at it's best is flimflam because it comes down to what someone is willing to pay, based on your Forbes numbers a billionaire fan underbid for the Scum by £1B ..

And please mate, I'll accept Forbes (and we can argue Forbes, vs. Deloitte vs. lesser sources) but please don't quote twitter subs as any real measure of fans (twitter is bot infested and even if it wasn't, the connection between twitter follows and monetizable fans would be a long conversation).
Click to expand...

I think the fact that the Markham Multivariate Model values us higher than Man Utd shows their measure must be a complete nonsense. Unless you want to argue that THFC is actually worth more than MUFC?

For brand value I'd have to have some awareness of how Statista are running their calculations.

Regarding me pulling up Twitter I did so because they give an absolutely bang up to date view of current followers. If you go and look at that list you will see that all of the expected clubs in pretty much all of the expected places. Sponsors will absolutely look at the number of social media followers when assessing the value of sponsorships (along with other factors around how engaged those followers are). Extending beyond Twitter, the figures for Facebook are closer (numbers from end May 2021). Here we are shown as having 22.1m followers versus Arsenal's 37.8m. For Instagram I cannot find anything that we appear in since October 2020. On this date though we were listed as having 8.9m followers versus Arsenal's 18.4m. I think it is pretty safe to say that Arsenal's fanbase is significantly larger than ours.... Perhaps by a factor of close to two times, if you disagree then please let me know why you feel otherwise.

I think if you offered 100 big investors with no affiliation to either club the ability to purchase 100% of Spurs or 100% Arsenal for the exact same price then a large majority of those investors would invest in Arsenal. The two companies have broadly similar revenues but one of them has a third of the debt and twice as many fans. I think that Arsenal have been poor at exploiting their commercial potential over the past several years now. I hope that continues.

If you take a dispassionate look at Spurs and Arsenal as businesses then I think Arsenal would be worth about 30% more than THFC yes. I'd value THFC at about £1.5b and Arsenal at about £2b. Of course that is just my take on things where I'm basing that valuation on turnover, debt and existing fan base.

Please put up your own opinion on what you feel that each of those two clubs is worth and give your reasoning behind that instead of just shooting down my valuation opinions as you keep on doing.
 
Last edited:
Finney Is Back said:
The


I think the fact that the Markham Multivariate Model values us higher than Man Utd shows their measure must be a complete nonsense. Unless you want to argue that THFC is actually worth more than THFC.

For brand value I'd have to have some awareness of how Statista are running their calculations.

Regarding me pulling up Twitter I did so because they give an absolutely bang up to date view of current followers. If you go and look at that list you will see that all of the expected clubs in pretty much all of the expected places. Sponsors will absolutely look at the number of social media followers when assessing the value of sponsorships (along with other factors around how engaged those followers are). Extending beyond Twitter, the figures for Facebook are closer (numbers from end May 2021). Here we are shown as having 22.1m followers versus Arsenal's 37.8m. For Instagram I cannot find anything that we appear in since October 2020. On this date though we were listed as having 8.9m followers versus Arsenal's 18.4m. I think it is pretty safe to say that Arsenal's fanbase is significantly larger than ours.... Perhaps by a factor of close to two times, if you disagree then please let me know why you feel otherwise.

I think if you offered 100 big investors with no affiliation to either club the ability to purchase 100% of Spurs or 100% Arsenal for the exact same price then a large majority of those investors would invest in Arsenal. The two companies have broadly similar revenues but one of them has a third of the debt and twice as many fans. I think that Arsenal have been poor at exploiting their commercial potential over the past several years now. I hope that continues.

If you take a dispassionate look at Spurs and Arsenal as businesses then I think Arsenal would be worth about 30% more than THFC yes. I'd value THFC at about £1.5b and Arsenal at about £2b. Of course that is just my take on things where I'm basing that valuation on turnover, debt and existing fan base.

Please put up your own opinion on what you feel that each of those two clubs is worth and give your reasoning behind that instead of just shooting down my valuation opinions as you keep on doing.
Click to expand...
What’s the demographic of the online fan base
From my online experience it’s a large proportion of Africa and is historically driven around the players they had in the past

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33808566 It’s old but relevant

and https://www.the42.ie/david-goldblatt-age-of-football-extract-4924128-Dec2019/
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What’s the demographic of the online fan base
From my online experience it’s a large proportion of Africa and is historically driven around the players they had in the past

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-33808566 It’s old but relevant

and https://www.the42.ie/david-goldblatt-age-of-football-extract-4924128-Dec2019/
Click to expand...
Here you go mate:
https://interactive.twitter.com/premierleague/#?mode=popular&popularIndex=1
If you change the drop down to 4th or 5th most you can see that we are placed about 6th in most countries compared to Arsenal who are typically always in top 3. You can also select Tottenham and Arsenal and directly compare the two.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The


I think the fact that the Markham Multivariate Model values us higher than Man Utd shows their measure must be a complete nonsense. Unless you want to argue that THFC is actually worth more than THFC.

For brand value I'd have to have some awareness of how Statista are running their calculations.

Regarding me pulling up Twitter I did so because they give an absolutely bang up to date view of current followers. If you go and look at that list you will see that all of the expected clubs in pretty much all of the expected places. Sponsors will absolutely look at the number of social media followers when assessing the value of sponsorships (along with other factors around how engaged those followers are). Extending beyond Twitter, the figures for Facebook are closer (numbers from end May 2021). Here we are shown as having 22.1m followers versus Arsenal's 37.8m. For Instagram I cannot find anything that we appear in since October 2020. On this date though we were listed as having 8.9m followers versus Arsenal's 18.4m. I think it is pretty safe to say that Arsenal's fanbase is significantly larger than ours.... Perhaps by a factor of close to two times, if you disagree then please let me know why you feel otherwise.

I think if you offered 100 big investors with no affiliation to either club the ability to purchase 100% of Spurs or 100% Arsenal for the exact same price then a large majority of those investors would invest in Arsenal. The two companies have broadly similar revenues but one of them has a third of the debt and twice as many fans. I think that Arsenal have been poor at exploiting their commercial potential over the past several years now. I hope that continues.

If you take a dispassionate look at Spurs and Arsenal as businesses then I think Arsenal would be worth about 30% more than THFC yes. I'd value THFC at about £1.5b and Arsenal at about £2b. Of course that is just my take on things where I'm basing that valuation on turnover, debt and existing fan base.

Please put up your own opinion on what you feel that each of those two clubs is worth and give your reasoning behind that instead of just shooting down my valuation opinions as you keep on doing.
Click to expand...

Stadium asset - Spurs
Squad value - Spurs
Non football revenue - Spurs
NFL potential - Spurs
Turnover - Spurs
Global fanbase - Arsenal
Better Debt ratio - Arsenal

The real question comes around Brand Value, and I'd break that down

- PL era Historical success - Arsenal
- Recent momentum (we have finished above them now 6 seasons in a row) - Spurs
- Current brand value - I'd probably just give it to Arsenal but see below
- Brand value showing Spurs in 8th, Arsenal in 9th -> Football 50 2021 | The Annual Brand Value Ranking | Brandirectory
- Here's an interesting piece about brand/trade portfolios in top clubs, again Spurs is ahead of Arsenal-> FC Barcelona and Man Utd are brand champions – the football clubs and players with the largest trademark portfolios revealed | World Trademark Review

So lets put a summary

- Spurs has a better turnover, higher assets on the books and potential upside to the revenue via NFL that Arsenal doesn't have
- Arsenal has a better debt ratio and a bigger global fanbase (that currently they are not monetizing to any significant advantage vs. Spurs)
- I would also argue Arsenal was a "popular club" which means perhaps more than Spurs, some of their supporters are aligned with who is successful at time (no idea %)

From a trend perspective (and yes that matters), Spurs has been on the up for the last 12 or so years, Arsenal has been on the down for almost the same period but significantly so in the last 6 or so years.

You looked at that and say that equals = £500M more value for Arsenal, I disagree (that's not shooting you down, it's a disagreement)

- I'm not arguing that at same price and investor might not choose Arsenal
- I am saying I see no way in light of the above that someone is going to a 30% premium for Arsenal

In addition I think without precedent every club is going to struggle at getting real buyers over £1B (simply because of the cheaper options), diminishing returns.
 
V4Gz6Ko.gif
 
TO be fair to Levy, he'd know how bad this will look. He doesnt want the club to look like a joke....which is what we are fast becoming
 
thfcsteff said:
What a stupid taco. THIS...after previous PR disasters. WHY do we allow this brick to be played in public?
Click to expand...
We can’t help what people ‘report’ unless we issued a denial for every story. This stuff doesn’t matter, it’s who and what we end up with.
*If it is Gattuso I honestly cannot even see the most patient, optimistic, pro ENIC Spurs fan giving an argument as to why this isn’t a massive clusterfudge of a decision that reaked of intentional negligence.
 
Last edited:
It is starting to look more and more like we are financially screwed and the new manager will be expected to operate at a significant transfer loss.

The candidates seem to be getting less and less prestigious, with the most important thing now being that they don't have high wage demands and they are out of work so do not require any compensation to be paid.

Other clubs are already making bids for players and trying to improve their squads. Maybe it doesn't matter anyway if we're completely broke but we should be using this time for the DoF and manager to identify the players that we want to keep, sell and buy. Sacking Jose well before hte end of the season we should not be halfway through June still managerless.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back