Daniel Levy - Chairman

[billyiddo]

I'm sure they'd love a trophy. But they won't do what it takes to give the club the best possible chance of doing it. Not if it means eating into their margin a little.

They can non-figuratively spare no expense on the stadium, but won't on the squad. One is good for their investment. One is good for us as fans. One is a longer term benefit to the club, one is a shorter term boost where the asset will depreciate. But it absolutely isn't about safe guarding the financial future of the club. If they wanted to, they could chuck a bit more cash in, now and then. But they won't. It isn't worth it to them.

In what way do you think the 'asset depreciates' with investment in the squad? Afaia they don't take money out of the club, other than wages, so I'm interested to hear how their 'margins' would be effected as the value of the club is where their future profit lays - not in the operating profits of the club year on year.

 

[Baleforce]

Somehow a player like Sissoko has become a leader in the dressing room going by the amazon doc, says it all.

subpar player who offers very little on the pitch is a leader of our lot.

leadership is a mentality trait not a technical football skill one

successive managers have made a keeper the captain too, theoretically one of the weakest technical footballers in most squads

 

[glasgowspur]

Because we've missed chance after chance to actually win something when we were much closer, to back managers to let them get the plans in place that they were hired for / built their reputations on, and we are now back to where we were 7 years ago. We have a great new stadium and our best player, an academy graduate who loves the club, wants to leave. We have not made meaningful progress on the pitch, and we are falling back. That's why I think it is a bad thing. Our reputation in the game is clear - we are not the place to go to win trophies.

A lot of people seem pretty convinced that 'the journey' is going to lead to success. I'm just not convinced. If the stadium was to be a real game changer, I don't think we lose Poch, and I don't think we lose Kane.

We need to define success.
IMO we have three realistic chances of winning a trophy, CC, f a cup and EL.
Outside chance of CL.
PL is a pipe dream, we need at least four bigger more successful teams above us to fail in the one year.
We are a seville level club, not a barca or Madrid. We could reach an athletico level.

 

[Gazza]

Appointing Mourinho and spending the 3rd/4th highest amount of money in the league aren't the actions of a club not trying to win.

Yeah but not when the players apparently wanted by Mourinho in Diaz and Skirinar and end up with rodon etc.

Why buy many duds when you can buy the players the manager needs to help him succeed. Throwing a wedge on average players doesn't mean ambition.

Ambition is going out and doing everything possible to deliver for the manager to succeed.

You honestly think Mourinho came into the club think ... hmm I need rodon and bergwijn? Some of that transfer budget was Lo celso.

 

[Baleforce]

ENIC are Frodo above the fires of mount doom, they have got the Ring that far. Some Spurs fans now want Gandalf to charge in, swipe the Ring, kick Frodo in with Gollum, tell him he's fudged it and head back to the Shire to hand the Ring to another Hobbit.

 

[Baleforce]

Yeah but not when the players apparently wanted by Mourinho in Diaz and Skirinar and end up with rodon etc.

Why buy many duds when you can buy the players the manager needs to help him succeed. Throwing a wedge on average players doesn't mean ambition.

Ambition is going out and doing everything possible to deliver for the manager to succeed.

You honestly think Mourinho came into the club think ... hmm I need rodon and bergwijn? Some of that transfer budget was Lo celso.

Primary concerns on this board were LB and CM, they got done first.

I also think that when we started looking at players who were finished articles rather than those with promise, when we tried to take a shortcut, that's where it went wrong. Thats what we should get back to imo.

There has been a lot of chat about Leicester's squad building since the weekend, signing the Rodon rather than the Skirinar is exactly what they would have done too.

 

[billyiddo]

We need to define success.
IMO we have three realistic chances of winning a trophy, CC, f a cup and EL.
Outside chance of CL.
PL is a pipe dream, we need at least four bigger more successful teams above us to fail in the one year.
We are a seville level club, not a barca or Madrid. We could reach an athletico level.

I think this is incorrect post-stadium tbh

Happy to be proven wrong but i believe if you were to take CL revenue out of the equation (as it's a variable) then bar United & City we are pretty much toe to toe with Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea (with potential to go further) which in my mind means we should be aiming as high as they are over the medium to long term.

Going to be hard for anyone to compete with a City or United (when they have their houses in order) but in a strongly competitive league there's likely to be more chance of those two being in a state of disorder than if they were in a league like Spain or Germany

 

[Gazza]

Primary concerns on this board were LB and CM, they got done first.

Could have done without spunking money on rodon and bergwijn and even Reguilon, got a CB pairing that would have been immense.

It's about the ambitions of the chairman and Enic, they simply failed to deliver what Mourinho wanted.

We coukdnhave kept sessegnon knowing that he needed experience ... just look at TAA with VVD at the back.

 

[billyiddo]

Yeah but not when the players apparently wanted by Mourinho in Diaz and Skirinar and end up with rodon etc.

Why buy many duds when you can buy the players the manager needs to help him succeed. Throwing a wedge on average players doesn't mean ambition.

Ambition is going out and doing everything possible to deliver for the manager to succeed.

You honestly think Mourinho came into the club think ... hmm I need rodon and bergwijn? Some of that transfer budget was Lo celso.

I've addressed this already earlier in the thread today but the gist was - we needed a rebuild and had a budget. 40m - 60m+ on a single player didn't fit in to that.

We took the approach you've suggested above with CM the year previous, 100m on 2 players, quality over quantity - still getting pelters.

Let's face it people only care about the outcome and if it doesn't work out you're a clam and if it does you're a hero

 

[glasgowspur]

I think this is incorrect post-stadium tbh

Happy to be proven wrong but i believe if you were to take CL revenue out of the equation (as it's a variable) then bar United & City we are pretty much toe to toe with Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea (with potential to go further) which in my mind means we should be aiming as high as they are over the medium to long term.

Going to be hard for anyone to compete with a City or United (when they have their houses in order) but in a strongly competitive league there's likely to be more chance of those two being in a state of disorder than if they were in a league like Spain or Germany

Post stadium and post covid, we aren't there yet.
As I said in another post, atm we are seville level, we could climb to athletico levels.
Although I think you are underestimating Liverpool.
Chelsea are at RAs whim and long term I don't think that works out well.

 

[Gazza]

I've addressed this already earlier in the thread today but the gist was - we needed a rebuild and had a budget. 40m - 60m+ on a single player didn't fit in to that.

Perhaps you are right but if levy was alright with buying quantity over quality.... its not an isolated incident rather the norm.

 

[Baleforce]

Could have done without spunking money on rodon and bergwijn and even Reguilon, got a CB pairing that would have been immense.

It's about the ambitions of the chairman and Enic, they simply failed to deliver what Mourinho wanted.

We coukdnhave kept sessegnon knowing that he needed experience ... just look at TAA with VVD at the back.

Bergwijn came in the window before when Jose determined he needed another wide forward right?

I thought Sessegnon was a winger rather than an FB?

 

[billyiddo]

Perhaps you are right but if levy was alright with buying quantity over quality.... its not an isolated incident rather the norm.

Ha, see my edit above, we done quality over quantity last summer...

 

[billyiddo]

Post stadium and post covid, we aren't there yet.
As I said in another post, atm we are seville level, we could climb to athletico levels.
Although I think you are underestimating Liverpool.
Chelsea are at RAs whim and long term I don't think that works out well.

Unless the numbers support your position I'm not inclined to change mine - agree regarding RA + Chelsea, although i don't think he'll throw money at chasing owners like at City though so would expect to see them generally balance the books

 

[BrainOfLevy]

In what way do you think the 'asset depreciates' with investment in the squad? Afaia they don't take money out of the club, other than wages, so I'm interested to hear how their 'margins' would be effected as the value of the club is where their future profit lays - not in the operating profits of the club year on year.

I mean signing a player doesn't boost the value of THFC - where as investing in the stadium and sparing no expense, does.

They don't take money out, but they don't put money in. They could put money in - Joe Lewis has enough of it. But if JL was to put any money in, it comes directly out of the profit they would expect to make on the sale of the club. It simply isn't worth it for them to put in another £2M to get Moutinho over the line for example. Because they'd look like they are spending frivolously and would never be able to compete with Chelsea and City anyway. But it absolutely isn't about not doing a Leeds. They just don't want to invest to win things, they want to invest to stay in the top 6, because that's a level they are confident the funds generated by the club can sustain ahead of Everton, Villa etc.

And I think there's been a lot of very clever spin by the club to justify why we haven't quite gotten players over the line. Not getting Moutinho shows we won't be bullied, and will willingly walk away. Which shows a selling club in financial difficulty that they need to take our revised lower offer otherwise they are screwed. Which is great for the deals we have managed to pull off, not great for backing a manager that wants certain pieces in place to make sure his system can work or the squad is equipped to compete. On the other end - leaking stories about Aguero and Dybala shows the fans that Levy really does want to win, but some things are juuuuuust a bit too difficult. It's gonads.

If they wanted to, they could chuck in another £20M every few years to strike while the iron is hot. They would absolutely lose money on their investment. It would absolutely be a risk to them. But let's not pretend they are doing everything they can to help the club win.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Appointing Mourinho and spending the 3rd/4th highest amount of money in the league aren't the actions of a club not trying to win.

Why did we appoint JM? Did we do it as a statement, like Chelsea did the first time around? E.g. we are the hot new club in Europe. This is the hot young manager. Together we are going to disrupt the established clubs?

No...we purely hired Mourinho because we wanted to squeeze more out of a squad that had run its course under Poch. We weren't investing to win. We were hoping JM's personality was enough. We weren't doing what it actually took to make a success of someone like JM at your club.

 

[Gazza]

Why did we appoint JM? Did we do it as a statement, like Chelsea did the first time around? E.g. we are the hot new club in Europe. This is the hot young manager. Together we are going to disrupt the established clubs?

No...we purely hired Mourinho because we wanted to squeeze more out of a squad that had run its course under Poch. We weren't investing to win. We were hoping JM's personality was enough. We weren't doing what it actually took to make a success of someone like JM at your club.

The thought process was to squeeze the players since they were the same players that got top four, got into the CL final etc .... but they forgot to look at the fact that the fans players failed in the final and downed tools and couldn't be arsed.

 

[billyiddo]

Why did we appoint JM? Did we do it as a statement, like Chelsea did the first time around? E.g. we are the hot new club in Europe. This is the hot young manager. Together we are going to disrupt the established clubs?

No...we purely hired Mourinho because we wanted to squeeze more out of a squad that had run its course under Poch. We weren't investing to win. We were hoping JM's personality was enough. We weren't doing what it actually took to make a success of someone like JM at your club.

I think we done about as much as could be reasonably expected from a club of our standing wrt to backing Mourinho - only 2 of the big 6 outspent us in the last 2 years, that to me shows intent and that it's clearly not a financial problem.

 

[lurker of old]

If the stadium was to be a real game changer, I don't think we lose Poch, and I don't think we lose Kane.
You have to allow for the Covid impact. If and when Covid is manageable, ie like another flu, and full audiences come back for concerts, NFL etc, then we should see the benefits. It has been built to allow us to compete with the better funded teams........if in 2 years time we have a squad with defensive deficiencies, that is the time to want ENIC out. Having said that, a DOF would seem to be a worthwhile expense.....

 

[Gazza]

If the stadium was to be a real game changer, I don't think we lose Poch, and I don't think we lose Kane.
You have to allow for the Covid impact. If and when Covid is manageable, ie like another flu, and full audiences come back for concerts, NFL etc, then we should see the benefits. It has been built to allow us to compete with the better funded teams........if in 2 years time we have a squad with defensive deficiencies, that is the time to want ENIC out. Having said that, a DOF would seem to be a worthwhile expense.....

I dont think anyone is doubting any of that, but Enic and Levy have justified or reasoned with their transfer strategy for years, leaving deals late or not having the balls to back the manager in their hour of need.

When we have been close to glory they have stuck to their guns instead of thinking that they could have compromised the time of the build, or atleast set it back a season or two in exchange to push the titles over the line. They have not found that balance and its the ambitions and motives that get fans thinking and questioning them.