Daniel Levy - Chairman

[billyiddo]

They are guaranteed due to their success and not for any other reason.



If you can't invest to the level Mourinho requires then don't hire him. If I can tell you this before we ever signed him then the chairman should also be able to work that one out. It's his day job and just a hobbyist interest for me.

Jose was brick don't get me wrong I knew it would fail before he even started. My issue is the chairman couldn't see that. Don't you find that concerning?

It's definitely a concern that Levy couldn't see that Jose was washed up and was taken in by him talking up the squad, i can just about give him a pass on that - but i don't subscribe to the logic that by appointing him we had to then back him beyond our means in the market, normal logic still applies there and with Covid and the amount of jobs that needed doing on repairing the squad a further 40-60m on top really does highlight that supporters will never be satisfied

 

[Bishop]

It's definitely a concern that Levy couldn't see that Jose was washed up and was taken in by him talking up the squad, i can just about give him a pass on that - but i don't subscribe to the logic that by appointing him we had to then back him beyond our means in the market, normal logic still applies there and with Covid and the amount of jobs that needed doing on repairing the squad a further 40-60m on top really does highlight that supporters will never be satisfied

You don't hire Mourinho and then do the usual level of Tottenham spending. It's a waste of an appointment. At the very least you bring in the fundamental players he asked for. A striker the previous January and an experienced CB this summer.

It's not about keeping the supporters happy, the supporters don't mean brick to ENIC it's about putting in place the mechanisms that the incumbent manager needs to progress. We didn't do that for Poch and we didn't do that for Mourinho either.

We are unlikely to do so for whomever the next manager or coach is either. [emoji2379]

 

[Baleforce]

We signed 9 players for Jose, all filled holes in the squad, he only had one pre season, Rome wasn't built in a day, Roma won't be either.

 

[billyiddo]

You don't hire Mourinho and then do the usual level of Tottenham spending. It's a waste of an appointment. At the very least you bring in the fundamental players he asked for. A striker the previous January and an experienced CB this summer.

It's not about keeping the supporters happy, the supporters don't mean brick to ENIC it's about putting in place the mechanisms that the incumbent manager needs to progress. We didn't do that for Poch and we didn't do that for Mourinho either.

We are unlikely to do so for whomever the next manager or coach is either. [emoji2379]

Why don't you? He got the job because he bigged up the squad and was preferable to an expensive rebuild, would be different if he came in saying how much work needed doing as then you could make the argument this was a known factor going in. Even at the end of the last summer window he was enthusiastic about the level of backing he received so it's after timing to be complaining about it now.

And as for usual Tottenham spending, post CL final we have been one of the highest net spenders in the league, that isn't exactly par for the course of late so let's not act like he was being asked to balance the books or sell to buy.

 

[Mikey10]

Why don't you? He got the job because he bigged up the squad and was preferable to an expensive rebuild, would be different if he came in saying how much work needed doing as then you could make the argument this was a known factor going in. Even at the end of the last summer window he was enthusiastic about the level of backing he received so it's after timing to be complaining about it now.

And as for usual Tottenham spending, post CL final we have been one of the highest net spenders in the league, that isn't exactly par for the course of late so let's not act like he was being asked to balance the books or sell to buy.

I'm not sure what people think someone who wants a job is going to say - espeically publicly. "I dont like the squad. We need to get rid of most of it. I'm not sure the chairman will buy who I want." He said what he needed to so that he was in the chair. Like others before him he probably felt he could change things once he was there - like others before him (who had much less clout) he failed.

I don't know about you, but when I go for an interview I don't say, "Your comapny is brick and I don't like your way of doing business." I don't think the interview would last too long if I did.

The net sepnd thing is a bit of an irrelevance, in my opinion. Mourinho didn't get the key players he wanted in key positions. He got kids (Rodon), average players (Bergwijn) and some who might be less than that (Vinicius). He didn't do a particulary good job overall - but, as others have said, he wasn't given the right tools, and Levy knew what he was before he appointed him.

 

[billyiddo]

I'm not sure what people think someone who wants a job is going to say - espeically publicly. "I dont like the squad. We need to get rid of most of it. I'm not sure the chairman will buy who I want." He said what he needed to so that he was in the chair. Like others before him he probably felt he could change things once he was there - like others before him (who had much less clout) he failed.

I don't know about you, but when I go for an interview I don't say, "Your comapny is brick and I don't like your way of doing business." I don't think the interview would last too long if I did.

The net sepnd thing is a bit of an irrelevance, in my opinion. Mourinho didn't get the key players he wanted in key positions. He got kids (Rodon), average players (Bergwijn) and some who might be less than that (Vinicius). He didn't do a particulary good job overall - but, as others have said, he wasn't given the right tools, and Levy knew what he was before he appointed him.

Come off it, everyone knows why he got the job and it wasn't because he was telling Levy behind closed doors that the squad was a shambles and needed major investment.

If he got his CB at the expense of another position that we strengthened then we'd be sat here complaining that that was the area that needed obvious improvement

 

[Jurgen the German]

They have three years to show that the increased income that you could expect from Stadium, NFL, non football activities are being leveraged for on the pitch success.

Again, we have been in Europe for 12 years running and still have a shot at it this season, so lets not pretend we are a midtable side yet (if it comes, then lets say it).

But I'll say it now for reference later, I believe they will spend that money, I believe we will continue to progress and that 1 or 2 trophies will come (not more, the game is still too rigged) and it still won't be good enough for some supporters ..

comes down to this mate, do I want trophies and success for Spurs? = yes, absolutely
can I see a plan in ENIC that "might" work = I think so
does winning trophies or not change my support for Spurs = no

So I chose not to believe the world is burning, the club has regressed irrevocably, everyone is leaving, no one wants the manager job at £15m/yr, etc, etc.

Fair enough. It is good to gauge what people find acceptable and what they don’t.

Lack of trophies doesn’t change our support for Spurs, it may change some people’s support for ENIC. They are not necessarily the same thing.

The world isn’t burning but we have regressed undoubtedly, to the point where our best player who also has great affection for the club has decided enough is enough.

Do you believe ENIC should operate exactly as they do already when it comes to the football side? Or do you accept it would be a good idea to change the approach and for Levy to take a less active role in the football side? Is there anything you would change about how we operate in the transfer market with regards to bringing players in or selling players? I’m not talking about injecting more cash just to be clear.

 

[Bishop]

Why don't you? He got the job because he bigged up the squad and was preferable to an expensive rebuild, would be different if he came in saying how much work needed doing as then you could make the argument this was a known factor going in. Even at the end of the last summer window he was enthusiastic about the level of backing he received so it's after timing to be complaining about it now.

And as for usual Tottenham spending, post CL final we have been one of the highest net spenders in the league, that isn't exactly par for the course of late so let's not act like he was being asked to balance the books or sell to buy.

Because that is a strategy that is guaranteed to fail with a Mourinho at the helm. He's never been successful at a club that is one of the biggest spenders in the league, he has always been the biggest spender.

Again if Daniel Levy could not work that out in advance then it's ever more concerning.

 

[Raziel]

Do you believe ENIC should operate exactly as they do already when it comes to the football side? Or do you accept it would be a good idea to change the approach and for Levy to take a less active role in the football side? Is there anything you would change about how we operate in the transfer market with regards to bringing players in or selling players? I’m not talking about injecting more cash just to be clear.

- everyone including ENIC should always be looking at a way to improve
- Is that a DoF with a different scouting mechanism? = I don't know, I was here when supporters and the media could fudging stop babbling about how Levy's DoF plan was "elitest continental" flimflam that would never work in the PL, the home of managers who do everything like SAF & Wenger. And how every time the manager or a player seemed slightly off, it was because of the conflict between the DoF and everyone. Now? DoF solves everything.
- I don't have a problem with Levy involved or not, the issue seems to be when he's the bottleneck or it's not in line with manager. We need to get rid of potentially 10 players this summer and I'm sure besides the obvious gaps, new manager will want some of his own signings, Levy will need to accept help, if not being entirely out of the picture.

 

[Raziel]

Because that is a strategy that is guaranteed to fail with a Mourinho at the helm. He's never been successful at a club that is one of the biggest spenders in the league, he has always been the biggest spender.

Again if Daniel Levy could not work that out in advance then it's ever more concerning.

I think you are being unfair to both parties in you assessment

- Maybe the plan was to back Jose to the tune of another £100M last summer (above what we spent) but Covid killed that
- Jose got more backing still than almost anyone expected
- His measurement of success at Spurs was never going to be the same as Madrid/Chelsea/United.

Jose need to get just enough out of this team to get to summer in 4th (5 more points? say not fudge up the West Ham 3-0 lead, win at Brighton)
- Sell a few surplus to him, get his CB

Like way too much at Spurs .. bad decisions compounded by circumstance ..

 

[Jurgen the German]

- everyone including ENIC should always be looking at a way to improve
- Is that a DoF with a different scouting mechanism? = I don't know, I was here when supporters and the media could fudging stop babbling about how Levy's DoF plan was "elitest continental" flimflam that would never work in the PL, the home of managers who do everything like SAF & Wenger. And how every time the manager or a player seemed slightly off, it was because of the conflict between the DoF and everyone. Now? DoF solves everything.
- I don't have a problem with Levy involved or not, the issue seems to be when he's the bottleneck or it's not in line with manager. We need to get rid of potentially 10 players this summer and I'm sure besides the obvious gaps, new manager will want some of his own signings, Levy will need to accept help, if not being entirely out of the picture.

- everyone including ENIC should always be looking at a way to improve
- Is that a DoF with a different scouting mechanism? = I don't know, I was here when supporters and the media could fudging stop babbling about how Levy's DoF plan was "elitest continental" flimflam that would never work in the PL, the home of managers who do everything like SAF & Wenger. And how every time the manager or a player seemed slightly off, it was because of the conflict between the DoF and everyone. Now? DoF solves everything.
- I don't have a problem with Levy involved or not, the issue seems to be when he's the bottleneck or it's not in line with manager. We need to get rid of potentially 10 players this summer and I'm sure besides the obvious gaps, new manager will want some of his own signings, Levy will need to accept help, if not being entirely out of the picture.

Fair points re the DOF system. You’re never going to have a system that pleases everybody. It’s the same with the loyalty point system for ticket allocations. It’s hard for the younger generation to get on the ladder but it’s probably the fairest system as the older generation who have been going for decades should be rewarded for their support. I’ll admit I too was critical of the DOF structure. But if it’s a straight up choice between Levy picking the manager and an actual football person then I’m sorry but it’s option 2 for me all day long as Levy has not been that adept at picking mangers on the whole. I accept there are drawbacks to the system but there are some pretty big flaws in our system as it is.

 

[Raziel]

Fair points re the DOF system. You’re never going to have a system that pleases everybody. It’s the same with the loyalty point system for ticket allocations. It’s hard for the younger generation to get on the ladder but it’s probably the fairest system as the older generation who have been going for decades should be rewarded for their support. I’ll admit I too was critical of the DOF structure. But if it’s a straight up choice between Levy picking the manager and an actual football person then I’m sorry but it’s option 2 for me all day long as Levy has not been that adept at picking mangers on the whole. I accept there are drawbacks to the system but there are some pretty big flaws in our system as it is.

Yep, I think everyone believe the ideal is

- DoF aligned to some kind of committed club system and youth development
- A long term manager that gets back with the right signings
- A strategy for long term success

Easy? = if it was every club would have it down

- Levy + DoF + Scout + Academy +Manager will always be subject to personalities, people leaving (being poached if it does work)
- Setbacks happen and supporters aren't patient, funny how Poch is Jesus now for both supporters and media but when he was here (just before downturn) there was already the talk of "4th place trophy" and not winning anything.
- Even true long term success may not be enough for some.

 

[billyiddo]

Because that is a strategy that is guaranteed to fail with a Mourinho at the helm. He's never been successful at a club that is one of the biggest spenders in the league, he has always been the biggest spender.

Again if Daniel Levy could not work that out in advance then it's ever more concerning.

The mistake was appointing him in the first place - what happens after that is moot to a degree as getting the appointment wrong doesn't then magic up money to invest that wasn't there originally and unplanned for.

It's clear we needed a rebuild, that doesn't take place over one summer so CB or otherwise I'm not sure what the issue is here - surely we don't expect to hit it all in one/two windows, as regardless of who the manager is that sort of churn takes time?

 

[Raziel]

The mistake was appointing him in the first place - what happens after that is moot to a degree as getting the appointment wrong doesn't then magic up money to invest that wasn't there originally and unplanned for.

It's clear we needed a rebuild, that doesn't take place over one summer so CB or otherwise I'm not sure what the issue is here - surely we don't expect to hit it all in one/two windows, as regardless of who the manager is that sort of churn takes time?

If I had to guess (and that's all it will ever be)

- Jose was a two year appointment (and they both knew it)
- Stabilize the season post Poch (job done)
- Start new season with goal of supplementing what everyone thought was a decent core group, good preseason, focus on Europa +1 domestic cups, use Jose's experience to get the "no trophy" albatross off the clubs back, he rebuilds his image somewhat and we both move on (us back to a more Spurs manager)

Two big problems
- Covid happened, affected both spend and pre-season
- Way too many of our player don't respond (crumble) under the type of pressure Jose brings (Dele, Dier, Sanchez, Winks, Doherty, Bergwijn, list goes on)

Too simple to just say = Jose was a busted flush, in the clusterfudge he delivered he still ended up 4th in points over total time here, gamble failed ..

 

[Finney Is Back]

Fair enough. As i said was being a bit mischievious, but also serious in a way. Our debt in normal time is easily manageable. It's at low interest and to be paid over a long period. The government loan has to be paid back by next march. But since it's printed money we might get more leeway.

From swiss ramble.

View attachment 11848

View attachment 11849

How much interest we have to pay each year.

Quite interesting.... So we have significantly more overall debt that Atletico and around the same amount of short term debt as Atletico. While Atletico have a higher turnover than us and will have CL revenue this season and next season that we will not have. If Atletico are up the swanney with their finances then lord knows what we are!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Levy looks at football in a logical way. He knows it's not sustainable for clubs to spend the way they do and sooner or later the other owners will run out of steam and want to claw some money back. Then spurs being in better financial position can capitalise that. City and chelsea being obvious exceptions with their owners (with almost infinite cash) ploughing money in. Liverpool and arsenal seem to be hitting a wall now though. With much reduced spending. Leicester and everton have gambled big time, leicesters may pay off (forget the fa cup). Everton hasn't.
Problem is there seems to be a conveyor of new owners who want to lose money. Like villa.

Even utd might be in trouble. Sponsorships have taken a massive hit (main kit deal and training kit).

But for fans it isn't great. We want to win. We want glory. We're the 6th richest club in england so you'd expect us to be 6th in the league. But it's considered shambolic for some. Getting to a final isn't enough we want to win.

So this could go on forever. Unless something changes. Either we get new owners who don't care about the money and risk it for glory. Or the regulations change. Salary cap or luxury tax on salaries. Or a mixture of the 2.

Can totally understand why the american owners wanted the esl. They must find the way football is in the uk as horrifying. 1 point can be the difference between cl and el (up to £100m). El to mid table (£25m) staying in the league and relegation. Clubs chasing a dream or fighting a nightmare. American sports don't have these stakes. They lose all their games one season. Still make a profit and get first choice in the draft next season. No biggy at all.

He's playing a VERY long game.... One that might outlast his and our lifetimes!

Also it seems to me that it is Levy who 6th (or even better) is 'shambolic' for (judging by their actions with jettisoning managers).

 

[Finney Is Back]

fudge it.

We might as well give Hitchen the manager role. Seems to run the club anyway.

Let's miss out the middle man and instead have Levy doing it instead of having a puppet that he'll sack when they meet/surpass expectations.

 

[Finney Is Back]

My thoughts exactly on the Jose sacking. The view that the problem was Jose and that everything would suddenly return to being hopeful and positive if he was sacked was always naive in my opinion.

As I said before Mourinho was sacked, the problems at the club are deep and entrenched and they go way beyond any manager. And that’s what we’re now seeing playing out.

To be fair things have improved somewhat.... but that belies where the true problems are at this club. Levy is a clever man in regularly sacking managers who are achieving par or better with their resources... it deflects attention away from what we really need to join the winners circle.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Correct. It was same brick, different day.

He knew we were crying out for an established CB who could come in and lead the back line. He got Rodon.

Not only that but he got Rodon on the very last day of the additional window for lower league players....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Helps them immensely that they get guarantee of CL money every season

It wasn't guaranteed at all when their president took over.