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Daniel Levy - Chairman

billyiddo said:
I can't believe I'm reading this from you tbh BoL, regressed to where we were 7 years ago? Come off it i know you're smarter than that - the club is in a much better position even if on the field we're in a bad spot, (5th in the table a bad spot indeed)

I sometimes think the club would have been better off skirting 4th/5th whilst building the stadium rather than challenging as missing out having been close seems to have fried some brains
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Football wise I said, tell me where I am wrong?
billyiddo said:
I can't believe I'm reading this from you tbh BoL, regressed to where we were 7 years ago? Come off it i know you're smarter than that - the club is in a much better position even if on the field we're in a bad spot, (5th in the table a bad spot indeed)

I sometimes think the club would have been better off skirting 4th/5th whilst building the stadium rather than challenging as missing out having been close seems to have fried some brains
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My entire point was qualified with ‘football wise’. would have course not argue that we don’t have better infrastructure. But I think it just brings my back to the same points. Why couldn’t we make it work with Poch? Why is ETH not jumping all over this? If we were really so much better positioned than a ‘challenge for 4th’ as you put it a little while ago, I don’t see how that puts us any further ahead that we were under Sherwood, or Harry, or AVB, or Jol.

The stadium means we won’t probably ever fall out of the top 6 more than the odd unlucky season. But I don’t have confidence it means we are actually about to take the leap and challenge.

I’m totally thankful to ENIC for building the infrastructure and profile. I think they have done their jobs well, but I don’t think they or their plan has in it the capacity or the desire to take us on the next step. The stadium gives us more certainty we won’t fall back, but I’m not seeing you tell me anything that suggests football wise, we are beyond where we were under Jol in 2006.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Football wise I said, tell me where I am wrong?


My entire point was qualified with ‘football wise’. would have course not argue that we don’t have better infrastructure. But I think it just brings my back to the same points. Why couldn’t we make it work with Poch? Why is ETH not jumping all over this? If we were really so much better positioned than a ‘challenge for 4th’ as you put it a little while ago, I don’t see how that puts us any further ahead that we were under Sherwood, or Harry, or AVB, or Jol.

The stadium means we won’t probably ever fall out of the top 6 more than the odd unlucky season. But I don’t have confidence it means we are actually about to take the leap and challenge.

I’m totally thankful to ENIC for building the infrastructure and profile. I think they have done their jobs well, but I don’t think they or their plan has in it the capacity or the desire to take us on the next step. The stadium gives us more certainty we won’t fall back, but I’m not seeing you tell me anything that suggests football wise, we are beyond where we were under Jol in 2006.
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The thing is 'football wise' can change a lot in a short space of time - i mean if you're point is we're 5th in the table and that's where we were 7 years ago I'm not really see a lot to discuss tbh

Is that where we are? Fall out the top 4 and call everything in to question?
 
Robspur12 said:
No method guarantees an increase. But a club winning trophies tends to bring in more revenue than a club that doesn't.
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I've shown recently that you need money in order to win trophies regularly - no one not at the level of financial strength as the old Sky top 4 has won more than a single trophy for more than 2 decades.
 
billyiddo said:
The thing is 'football wise' can change a lot in a short space of time - i mean if you're point is we're 5th in the table and that's where we were 7 years ago I'm not really see a lot to discuss tbh

Is that where we are? Fall out the top 4 and call everything in to question?
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No, it’s a multitude of indicators. I’d like to pin you down on this point - why is ETH not jumping all over this job? Why, if we are about to make the leap, and really challenge, does he not see this as a great step up. More money, more challenge, top club. European Super League club! Best stadium in the world! Best striker in the world! Why would he not be falling over himself to leave Ajax and come here?

I am actually massively thankful to ENIC for building the infrastructure that means if we do get bought by a sugar daddy, we actually won’t be totally beholden to them as we would have been if we still had the old WHL. I think they did a fantastic job, and in that, did a lot of good for the club. But none of the indicators suggest we are close to pushing on.

We haven’t just fallen out of the top 4, it is that we are now so far behind challenging for the title, and even you are saying we need to get some pieces in place before we can push to challenge for the top 4 again. I think 2 years ago, we looked like we had arrived. Our Twitter said ‘we are only just getting started’ after the CL final. We looked to have done exactly what Atletico Madrid had done, build a stadium, and then push on.

But we aren’t doing that, are we? We are not shopping in the aisle of top Managers. We are shopping in the same aisle we got Poch from. At the time, we struck gold. We are not a premium destination anymore for managers, and we can’t just rely on striking gold if we want success. We are regressing back to ENIC’s mean, which is top 6 with the occasional top 4 season if we are lucky. Where as it looked like we were going to be top 4, and a title if we were lucky.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
No, it’s a multitude of indicators. I’d like to pin you down on this point - why is ETH not jumping all over this job? Why, if we are about to make the leap, and really challenge, does he not see this as a great step up. More money, more challenge, top club. European Super League club! Best stadium in the world! Best striker in the world! Why would he not be falling over himself to leave Ajax and come here?

I am actually massively thankful to ENIC for building the infrastructure that means if we do get bought by a sugar daddy, we actually won’t be totally beholden to them as we would have been if we still had the old WHL. I think they did a fantastic job, and in that, did a lot of good for the club. But none of the indicators suggest we are close to pushing on.

We haven’t just fallen out of the top 4, it is that we are now so far behind challenging for the title, and even you are saying we need to get some pieces in place before we can push to challenge for the top 4 again. I think 2 years ago, we looked like we had arrived. Our Twitter said ‘we are only just getting started’ after the CL final. We looked to have done exactly what Atletico Madrid had done, build a stadium, and then push on.

But we aren’t doing that, are we? We are not shopping in the aisle of top Managers. We are shopping in the same aisle we got Poch from. At the time, we struck gold. We are not a premium destination anymore for managers, and we can’t just rely on striking gold if we want success. We are regressing back to ENIC’s mean, which is top 6 with the occasional top 4 season if we are lucky. Where as it looked like we were going to be top 4, and a title if we were lucky.
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I don't know why ETH isn't jumping all over it - I don't even know if he wasn't, i don't know where he sits/sat on our list or who else we're interested in, same as you. I had him on my list as managers I'd like but let's not pretend he's the hottest managerial prospect in the game - he's just one of many and had we not played them in the CL i doubt our fanbase would even have had him touted. I'm personally going to wait and see who the appointment is before worrying about idle gossip and what any of it means regarding our standing as a club.

We challenged for the title in a period where the City & Liverpool teams of the past 2-3 seasons were not performing at the level they have been since, by 'challenging the top 4' i mean to say we'll be one of the teams in and around those top places, not that we're only looking at hoping to finishing 4th. United are second and not uncatchable, in fact i think with proper management in place this season we'd arguably be right up there with them.

Winning the league when a club with Citys backing are at full tilt is a tough ask for anyone but we'll be one of the teams in with a chance the years they aren't at their peak
 
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billyiddo said:
I've shown recently that you need money in order to win trophies regularly - no one not at the level of financial strength as the old Sky top 4 has won more than a single trophy for more than 2 decades.
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But conversely do we not have greater financial strength than the others who have won a single trophy in that time? Therefore shouldn't the expectation be slightly higher?
 
Robspur12 said:
But conversely do we not have greater financial strength than the others who have won a single trophy in that time? Therefore shouldn't the expectation be slightly higher?
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The gap between our finances and the set below were closer to one another than ours and the set above iirc - this has obviously changed the past couple of years or so and is why i think it's now fair game to say we should be looking to rack up the trophies over the coming years.
 
billyiddo said:
The gap between our finances and the set below were closer to one another than ours and the set above iirc - this has obviously changed the past couple of years or so and is why i think it's now fair game to say we should be looking to rack up the trophies over the coming years.
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I am glad you said the last bit Bill, otherwise my next question would be what is the point in growing revenue if it is not to head towards winning trophies.
 
Robspur12 said:
I am glad you said the last bit Bill, otherwise my next question would be what is the point in growing revenue if it is not to head towards winning trophies.
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That is the whole point, so we are better positioned to compete - our financial strength is now on similar level to Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal with potential to go further once the stadium is fully realised, if we don't at least match them over the medium to long term it'll be a poor return.
 
Baleforce said:
if you look at the relevant games though, who let us down, who didn't turn up, who put in a performance lesser than their average, the players who supposedly deserve trophies, Kane has now played in a LC final, a CL final and a World Cup SF, and not made a dent in any of them, Son and Eriksen went missing in key games too

I really have a burr up my arse about such "players needing to leave to win trophies", they need to go and win them, fudge everyone else on the pitch just go and take it, that's what the truly great players do
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Worryingly for us with our best players, all of the players who left to win things in recent years did so (Berbatov, Bale, Modric, Walker, Eriksen). I think the only thing keeping Son and Kane at the club next season will be Levy's transfer valuation. Fingers crossed that doesn't affect their performances on the pitch (i think it's 50-50 at best, typically there is a significant performnace drop off in players wanting out).
 
SpurMeUp said:
You don't see the paradox of what you are saying? While the managers have changed....what has stayed consistent while we have "overachieved" and who puts all the ingredients together for that overachievement?
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Enic have been here 20 years. 10 managers have been appointed. 3 managers have overachieved. 3 out of 10.... all sacked anyway despite over achieving.

According to ENICs history we have a 30% chance of appointing a manager that can overperform expectations.... and in the unlikely event that he is able to overachieve he will get sacked anyway. I think it is all an attempt to deflect away where the real problem at this club lies in terms of doing what football clubs are supposed to do and win trophies.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Worryingly for us with our best players, all of the players who left to win things in recent years did so (Berbatov, Bale, Modric, Walker, Eriksen). I think the only thing keeping Son and Kane at the club next season will be Levy's transfer valuation. Fingers crossed that doesn't affect their performances on the pitch (i think it's 50-50 at best, typically there is a significant performnace drop off in players wanting out).
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I wouldn't say it's worrying when players we don't want to sell go to richer clubs who were already winning stuff, that's just the food chain in action.

I'd be worried if they moved sideways and suddenly delivered a load of trophies singlehandedly.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Worryingly for us with our best players, all of the players who left to win things in recent years did so (Berbatov, Bale, Modric, Walker, Eriksen). I think the only thing keeping Son and Kane at the club next season will be Levy's transfer valuation. Fingers crossed that doesn't affect their performances on the pitch (i think it's 50-50 at best, typically there is a significant performnace drop off in players wanting out).
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They all went to dominant side in the respective country at the time so it was an easy call (Eriksen went to the only side that wanted him)
If city come in for Kane it’s an easy call for him. Of course the fee is the issue but they can buy who they what if they want too
 
billyiddo said:
That is the whole point, so we are better positioned to compete - our financial strength is now on similar level to Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal with potential to go further once the stadium is fully realised, if we don't at least match them over the medium to long term it'll be a poor return.
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I do agree with you here. The stadium made absolute sense (although not going as over budget as it did and using up so much of the playing budget). The mistake was the total neglect of the playing squad during a period when we were fantastically placed to really challenge.

Maybe Levy will have learnt from that?.... His lack of getting Jose the centre back he wanted in the Summer or a striker in the January before that leaves me questioning whether he has however?
 
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Baleforce said:
I wouldn't say it's worrying when players we don't want to sell go to richer clubs who were already winning stuff, that's just the food chain in action.

I'd be worried if they moved sideways and suddenly delivered a load of trophies singlehandedly.
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The worry here is that good players can see that the best thing to do if you want to win trophies is leave the club.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The worry here is that good players can see that the best thing to do if you want to win trophies is leave the club.
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Yes, but the context there is important, why are those clubs more likely to win trophies, it's not because Al Mubarak has a better understanding of the game than Levy, it's because he can spend more money.

Also, most of these players left their previous club, to join us, for similar reasons.

We are not playing by the same rules, we can only spend what we make.
 
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