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Daniel Levy - Chairman

billyiddo said:
i thought you don't pay managers off in one lump, they just carry on picking up their weekly wage until they are working again?
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That's the usual way it works in corporates, and thats what I've had too.

But again, its not a £30m cost. Jose's salary is what we're planning to spend already. If we employ the new guy on say £150k p.w. or £7.5m pa., then the additional cost for us would be perhaps £12m. Jose's salary is already in our business plan - the extra cost would be the cost for his replacement

It's really not a £30m additional cost for us!
 
DubaiSpur said:
You do if you straight up sack them, I think - then it's just one lump-sum payment. The situation we had with Poch is the minority outcome, where we didn't actually sack him as I recall - he was still employed by the club until he found a new job.
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the last thing you want is your club sold off the hip like that - who knows what you'd end up with
 
DeanoAustin said:
I really can’t believe that Levy has been that naive. I know he admires Mourinho but to not give himself a get out clause when you look at Mourinhos recent record and how risky an appointment he was (given our way of doing business) would have been reckless. I don’t believe Daniel Levy is that reckless.
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Why can’t you believe it? It cost us £12m to get rid of Poch.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Why can’t you believe it? It cost us £12m to get rid of Poch.
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United were clever enough when they appointed Moyes to give him a 6 year deal and say “miss CL and you’re out with a minimum payment”. That’s why they waited until the day it was mathematically impossible to qualify (they lost to Everton I think) to sack him.

Did we pay up all of Poch’s contract?

Levy is a very smart guy. To not give yourself a get out clause in a game as risky as appointing a manager is not very savvy.
 
billyiddo said:
the last thing you want is your club sold off the hip like that - who knows what you'd end up with
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We're in a situation now where the pre-football valuation of us at over 1bn pounds put almost every buyer off, and then our declining form and COVID no doubt have taken a big chunk off our valuation since then.

If you're priced too high, you'll only end up with folks like Levy and Lewis - who want to use the club to boost the value of their commercial and property portfolios. The sheer up front purchase cost will deter any owner-led investment into the side.

If you're priced too low, you open yourself up to chancers and leveraged buy outs.

One way or another, Levy and Lewis will be making a profit of more than 10x the 20-40m they've invested into the club. But I would suggest the ideal outcome for the club is that we are now sold at a price high enough to deter chancers, but low enough to allow for additional owner-led investment.

Otherwise we are staring down the barrel of a disaster. Kane and Son will leave. The rest of the side is trash. COVID means we have a massive red line through most of our finances, of the type that only the owner-invested clubs can stomach.
 
DubaiSpur said:
We're in a situation now where the pre-football valuation of us at over 1bn pounds put almost every buyer off, and then our declining form and COVID no doubt have taken a big chunk off our valuation since then.

If you're priced too high, you'll only end up with folks like Levy and Lewis - who want to use the club to boost the value of their commercial and property portfolios. The sheer up front purchase cost will deter any owner-led investment into the side.

If you're priced too low, you open yourself up to chancers and leveraged buy outs.

One way or another, Levy and Lewis will be making a profit of more than 10x the 20-40m they've invested into the club. But I would suggest the ideal outcome for the club is that we are now sold at a price high enough to deter chancers, but low enough to allow for additional owner-led investment.

Otherwise we are staring down the barrel of a disaster. Kane and Son will leave. The rest of the side is trash. COVID means we have a massive red line through most of our finances, of the type that only the owner-invested clubs can stomach.
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a few months ago you were singing their praises mate - they've made a bad managerial decision, it happens
 
DeanoAustin said:
United were clever enough when they appointed Moyes to give him a 6 year deal and say “miss CL and you’re out with a minimum payment”. That’s why they waited until the day it was mathematically impossible to qualify (they lost to Everton I think) to sack him.

Did we pay up all of Poch’s contract?

Levy is a very smart guy. To not give yourself a get out clause in a game as risky as appointing a manager is not very savvy.
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Levy is a very average chairman mate.... don’t be fooled by his self awarded salary. I suspect uncle Joe might be starting to twitch now seeing his investment starting to go south a bit.
 
billyiddo said:
a few months ago you were singing their praises mate - they've made a bad managerial decision, it happens
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They have. Important to be clear given the fact that I dislike Levy at the best of times - I am not blaming them for hiring Mourinho. It was a gamble, it didn't work out.

But the reality is, we need lots of new cash, now. Nothing we can do about that. Kane and Son will leave, no one will buy our other overpriced rubbish so chancers like Sanchez and Dier will still be here stealing a living come this September, no CL will hurt our bottom line, the losses from this pandemic will sting for a while, and if we finish 15th (which this chancer Mourinho is fully capable of), will we even have a full house at the ground next year?

We need owner-led investment. We always have done, but especially now. The only way to get that is if they sell - possibly a stake, possibly the whole thing.

Just the way things have turned out, imo.

Edit: And as I mentioned, given what we've heard and seen about Tavistock's exposure to the commercial real estate, retail and hotel sectors, it seems a fair bet that they, and Joe Lewis, have taken a hammering due to COVID. He might be open to selling on account of that.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
We're in a situation now where the pre-football valuation of us at over 1bn pounds put almost every buyer off, and then our declining form and COVID no doubt have taken a big chunk off our valuation since then.

If you're priced too high, you'll only end up with folks like Levy and Lewis - who want to use the club to boost the value of their commercial and property portfolios. The sheer up front purchase cost will deter any owner-led investment into the side.

If you're priced too low, you open yourself up to chancers and leveraged buy outs.

One way or another, Levy and Lewis will be making a profit of more than 10x the 20-40m they've invested into the club. But I would suggest the ideal outcome for the club is that we are now sold at a price high enough to deter chancers, but low enough to allow for additional owner-led investment.

Otherwise we are staring down the barrel of a disaster. Kane and Son will leave. The rest of the side is trash. COVID means we have a massive red line through most of our finances, of the type that only the owner-invested clubs can stomach.
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Mr Lewis would sell to the highest bidder IMO (although I don’t think he’ll sell at all while values are depressed).
 
Finney Is Back said:
Levy is a very average chairman mate.... don’t be fooled by his self awarded salary. I suspect uncle Joe might be starting to twitch now seeing his investment starting to go south a bit.
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Can’t agree with that. We’re in a bad spot at the moment but when you look at where he’s taken us over the last 20 years without a massive amount of investment from Lewis, I firmly believe he’s done an unbelievable job. He’s erred with Jose the same way he erred with Santini, Ramos and AVB/Tactics Tim. But what came after all of those appointments was an appointment that brought us further and further along. The training facilities, the stadium, the fact we’ve had probably our most successful 15 years of league positions in our history (the lack of trophies notwithstanding), for me Levy has been outstanding.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Can’t agree with that. We’re in a bad spot at the moment but when you look at where he’s taken us over the last 20 years without a massive amount of investment from Lewis, I firmly believe he’s done an unbelievable job. He’s erred with Jose the same way he erred with Santini, Ramos and AVB/Tactics Tim. But what came after all of those appointments was an appointment that brought us further and further along. The training facilities, the stadium, the fact we’ve had probably our most successful 15 years of league positions in our history (the lack of trophies notwithstanding), for me Levy has been outstanding.
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Lowest number of trophies in 20 years in our entire history I believe.

Is there another example where a director can get a £3m bonus for going 6 months and about £400m over budget on a project?
 
DubaiSpur said:
The club will be going into this summer in one of the weakest positions it's ever been in under ENIC.
  • COVID has blasted a gaping hole in Danny Boy's plan with the stadium - we're haemorraging money at the moment while indebted, and non-figuratively the only worse outcome would have been if the pandemic had hit while it was still under construction.
  • Kane and Son will be looking to leave - I don't blame them, either.
  • If this useless Portuguese waster is still around, he will demand 500m for new players.
  • We have loads and loads of absolutely terrible rubbish to clear out, but I doubt anyone in football has money to pay for them right now.
  • Will season ticket holders actually go back in numbers after this summer if we finish 15th, sell Son and Kane, and look as hopeless as we look now?
The only way I can possibly see to stave off some of this is to bring capital into the club to fund a squad rebuild - something to get folks excited for the future, a new start.

But to do so will require a large injection of capital from somewhere - preferably a sale of equity, or an outright change in ownership. Enough to eat the below-market prices we'll get for wasters like l Sanchez and Dier and buy quality to replace them.

Also, it would be an opportunity to catch up with the football world - overhaul our data analytics teams, hire a sports psychologist, hire some new scouts, hire some new physios. That part, Levy used to be good at. He isn't anymore.

But without an injection of capital, I don't see how we avert a looming disaster this summer. I think Levy and Lewis need to think about selling a stake or full ownership if they actually care.

Weirdly enough, I think Lewis might be open to it as well - if I recall correctly, Tavistock Group is extremely heavily invested in commercial real estate, restaurants, hotels and retail, all of which have been decimated by the pandemic. Selling us might be a way to recoup some losses.
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How was your hibernation this time ;)
 
Finney Is Back said:
Lowest number of trophies in 20 years in our entire history I believe.

Is there another example where a director can get a £3m bonus for going 6 months and about £400m over budget on a project?
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Yes, but during a time where domestic trophies carried far less value than previously and CL participation was (is) paramount, that is an important distinction.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Don’t think so (1922-1950?).

You also have to look at the context. He inherited a brick show where several clubs were streets ahead of us and since he’s come in two other clubs have won the lottery and hoovered up a lot of trophies.
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The fact you had to pick the period containing us not being a top division club and a world war says it all....
 
There comes a point where financially the cost of losing out on Europa League money next season will cost Levy more money than sacking Mourinho

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Arsenal €38m,€39m and €19m from their last 3 season in it
United €45m in 16/17 and €28m last year
Liverpool €38m in 15/17
 
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