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Daniel Levy - Chairman
- Thread starter Howard Webb
- Start date
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
All of us have got access to these sorts of interest rates.... The Banks will still only lend each of us a certain amount compared to our earnings though... and the higher the debt we take on in relation to the value of our main asset (typically our houses) the higher the interest charge.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Look at the regression, the stagnation under our team from the early days of Poch:
Lloris - still here
Walker --> Aurier/Doherty
Toby --> Toby 5 years later
Vertonghen --> Dier (LOL)
Rose --> Davies (who was Rose's understudy)
Wanyama --> PEH an improvement
Dembele --> Sissoko
Dele --> Ndombele
Eriksen --> Moura (what a downgrade)
Son
Kane
Lack of investment into our squad has cost us massively. "Painful rebuild" is needed.
Lloris - still here
Walker --> Aurier/Doherty
Toby --> Toby 5 years later
Vertonghen --> Dier (LOL)
Rose --> Davies (who was Rose's understudy)
Wanyama --> PEH an improvement
Dembele --> Sissoko
Dele --> Ndombele
Eriksen --> Moura (what a downgrade)
Son
Kane
Lack of investment into our squad has cost us massively. "Painful rebuild" is needed.
I agree with your sentiment about gradual reduction in quality of the squad - we were financing a stadium and therefore stretched and stretched our playing resources until at some point it snapped (i.e. wasnt able to match the level we want it to perform at).
In terms of 'painful rebuild', it depends on how you look at it. Once you've got over the fact that we dont have a top 4 quality team any more and accept that we're in for a 2-3 year rebuild, it can be quite exciting.
If we sign say 3 players each summer window who are high potential players in the 21-24 year old age range we'll be able to see the team grow and we should be able to afford that.
There's enough of them around - we just need to buy the likes of Maddison, Tielemans etc before others do, and occasionally supplement that with a high potential/price player like Ndombele.
StephenH
David Ginola
Sadly with the current state of football with the pandemic, I see little changing at Spurs. We will tread water till things return to normal.
The timing could not have been worse with finances and poor choice of manager, leaving us with few options. We could bring some youngsters through maybe?
The timing could not have been worse with finances and poor choice of manager, leaving us with few options. We could bring some youngsters through maybe?
Dele, Lamela, Son, Kane -> all still in prime point of career (if not form in case of Dele)
Rose -> Reguilon & Sessegnon
Wanyama -> PEH
Dembele -> Ndombele
Eriksen -> Gio
N'jie -> Bergwijn/Lucas
Wimmer -> Tanganga/Rodon
Mason -> Skipp
Janssen -> Vinicius
See what you can do? there is no lack of investment in the team, we have bought 10+ players in the last two seasons including our most expensive signing ever in Ndombele.
If you want to be really critical of the squad, what you will see is a few issues
- Injuries, Reguilon, Aurier and Gio being out makes a big difference
- Some players not kicking on/or maintaining levels (Dele & Dier clearest examples)
- Some players on wrong end of their career (Lloris & Toby)
- Biggest real issue is CB partnership, again no lack of investment (Sanchez is our 2nd most expensive signing still I believe, Tanganga/Rodon future potential), the balance and lack of leadership is the issue, we need a leader of the CB pair, we also lack pace and aerial ability hence the chop and change.
You could also say, fully fit, the squad depth/bench is as good as it's ever been.
If you went Lloris, Sanchez, Dele, Dier/Toby (one of the two), Sissoko, Winks, out in summer (effectively only 3 first teamers at most)
If you brought back Sessegnon and Skipp into squad
Bought one top quality CB and Keeper
You would have 4 new first team players (to add to the Ndombele, PEH, Gio, Reguilon, at least 4 from last two seasons, so 8 players changed in first 11), only two that you have to buy .. hardly a "painful rebuild"
You're a little but muddled up there which makes it look a bit worse, rebuild was called for when the team was in the phase after the peak team had already been and gone.
So...
Lloris > Lloris
Gazzaniga > Hart
Trippier > Aurier
KWP > Doherty
Davies > Regulion
Rose > Sessegnon
Alderweireld > Alderweireld
Vertonghen > Dier
Sanchez > Sanchez
Foyth > Rodon
Broken Wanyama > Hojbjerg
Broken Dembele > Ndombele
Winks > Winks
Sissoko > Sissoko
Dele > Dele
Eriksen > GLC
Son > Son
Moura > Moura
Lamela > Lamela
Nkoudou > Bergwijn
Harry > Harry
Llorente > Vinicius
Obviously work still to do but we've mostly upgraded the positions we have bought in since the CL final.
A lot of the damage was done prior to that and the peak team did deteriorate the two years after we left WHL but i find it hard to point fingers during the period we had our extended stay at Wembley
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So many are going over the top with "we need a 5 year rebuild, won't be in top 4 for the next few years" etc.
Before Poch we missed out on top 4 and the amount of "we missed out on our only chance to break into top 4".
It's ridiculous, football changes quickly, look at Liverpool falling apart, Utd the laughing stock at the start of the season...
So much overreaction to how things are going in the last few weeks,
Before Poch we missed out on top 4 and the amount of "we missed out on our only chance to break into top 4".
It's ridiculous, football changes quickly, look at Liverpool falling apart, Utd the laughing stock at the start of the season...
So much overreaction to how things are going in the last few weeks,
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
Think it's an entirely fair reaction if you have 12pts from 12 games (2 month period) and the 3 wins consisted of 2 teams to be relegated and 1 who was promoted this season. I don't think it's an over reaction at all. I think it's entirely fair to ask questions or expect better.
No, it's an over-reaction that it'll take 5 years to do a rebuild and get into the top 4, etc.
2008/9 we finished 8th, was the same reaction. The next year we finished in the top 4.
I'm not saying there aren't issues that need to be addressed, but you'd swear we were fighting against relegation
for the last few years.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
This is the big problem:
Alderweireld > Alderweireld
Vertonghen > Dier
We've gone from a world class partnership, perfectly suited to Poch's system in that both of the players were also international class fullbacks to probably the weakest set of partnerships in the PL.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
How long the rebuild takes depends on two things:
1. How much money the chairman makes available.
2. The quality of our player identification and scouting.
Unfortunately I'm not too hopeful on either.
It's 2 points worse than the run of 12 games that got the last manager sacked, so entirely reasonable to have the discussion no matter what anyone says to the contrary
Might have to disagree on point 2 there, we have a reasonable return on our transfers post CL final
why?
1. Who knows if any clubs will have money (rumour is City is offering KDB & Aquero new contracts for less money), this may actually equalize the field a little
2. Ndombele, Gio, PEH, Reguilon, Bergwijn, Vinicius, Sessegnon in last two seasons, is this the basis for your lack of confidence in our scouting?
Carrick, Berbatov, Bale, Walker, Rose, Modric, VDV, Eriksen, Son, Lloris, Toby, Jan, Dembele, Dele .. this persistent myth that Spurs doesn't have a good record at finding top level players is a bit mystifying.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
13 players since then....
Ndombele - good
Sessegnon - not good (but I think he'll end up being a good signing)
Lo Celso - not good (but again I think he should come good if the injury thing isn't a constant)
Clarke - not good (but there's still time)
Bergwijn - average at best so far (but I think there's a player there)
Doherty - not good
Rodon - can't really judge yet though I'm worried that he's not considered to be better than what we have been playing so far
Regulion - very good
Hojbjerg - very good
Hart - not good (but I completely get the signing)
Bale - not good
Fernandes - not good
Vinicius - OK/difficult to tell.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
So my post above.
I think a lot of those players you mentioned were signed under various different DoF set ups. (Arnesen, Commoli, Mitchell). I'm not convinced that the setup we now have at the club is as good.
I'd love Levy to surprise me and go out and get Campos. He is there, available and ready to be employed by a club with the right ambitions I think.
Nobody is saying that it's not reasonable to have a discussion on how the team is currently performing or the position of the manager (I've called for his head myself).
But all the crying about a massive rebuild that is going to take 5 years is nothing but hyperbole.
A lot of the not goods are punts or players for the future.
Players signed for the first team :
Hojberg
Regulion
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Bergwijn
Pretty good succes rate there.
The rest are a mixture of prospects, squad improvements or freebie punts/loans.
A CB (or 2) and a Midfielder signed of the level of the first group would go down a treat in the summer and a couple more squad/prospect options to bolster the squad in light of some hopeful outgoings
Wasn't directed at your post mate
Let me separate that for you (perspective/context)
Backup players -> Hart (freed up non HG slot), Vinicius (best backup striker we have had since the days of JD fighting for a spot with Keane/Berbatov), Rodon (jury out), Sessegnon (jury out, but seems to be kicking on in Germany recently), Fernandes (cover player signed on a loan that didn't work out)
First team buys/loans -> Ndombele (top level player, injuries and settling in time delayed his time to impact), PEH (very good), Reguilon (very good), Gio (I disagree with your assesment, he's had runs where he was easily one of our better players, injury problems), Doherty (looks like a miss), Bale (looks like a miss on a zero risk loan for a top tier player), Bergwijn (jury out)
So what you have is one real dud where we have bought the player outright (Doherty) that you could argue give him at least a full season.
The issue with our transfers is not who we bought, it's who we didn't.
If you want to really criticize, the question would be should we have pushed out the boat for Skrinar or some other top level CB?
