Daniel Levy - Chairman

[parklane1]

Be great to get his thoughts now that he has worked with them
People get blinkered by the talent and historical performances without knowing the character or mindset of the player/s

A lot of the players have been IMO stealing a living for the last 12 months or so starting from the begining of last season. Poch had lost them and it was pretty obvious to see and the hope was that Jose could kick them up the arse and get them going again, in some games it seemed to have worked but others it has not.

Its still too early ( one game into a new season) to know if it is going to change but they were some players out there against Everton who should be ashamed of their efforts IMO.

 

[glorygloryeze]

A lot of the players have been IMO stealing a living for the last 12 months or so starting from the begining of last season. Poch had lost them and it was pretty obvious to see and the hope was that Jose could kick them up the arse and get them going again, in some games it seemed to have worked but others it has not.

Its still too early ( one game into a new season) to know if it is going to change but they were some players out there against Everton who should be ashamed of their efforts IMO.

Which players are you referring to here btw?

 

[Gazza]

Guess who has the agenda against Levy, good old Dubai

having an alternative opinion is not an agenda. likewise some could say your agenda is chumming it up with Levy.

There has to be balance in the opinion of course. Im all ears for both in favour of levy and those that are not ... but bottom line is that we dont have to agree to both be right or wrong.

 

[parklane1]

Which players are you referring to here btw?

Well lets put it this way there are players who IMO in yesterdays game were strolling ( now i understand that players have off games) but its not the first time ( there were doing it under Pooch as well). Players like Toby, Dele, have played well in some games under Jose ( which proves they still have the ability) but in others they seem to lack the commitment that is needed at this level.

Now i may be wrong but its not very professional to just stroll through games, every player can/has bad games but the effort should always be at 100% and in all honesty i did not see that yesterday.

 

[parklane1]

having an alternative opinion is not an agenda. likewise some could say your agenda is chumming it up with Levy.

There has to be balance in the opinion of course. Im all ears for both in favour of levy and those that are not ... but bottom line is that we dont have to agree to both be right or wrong.

I agree of course and you are right, but the point that others made was that Dubai posted some stats up that he implied made Levy look bad ( no surprise there), as it turned out he had not done his homework by reading through it correctly.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well lets put it this way there are players who IMO in yesterdays game were strolling ( now i understand that players have off games) but its not the first time ( there were doing it under Pooch as well). Players like Toby, Dele, have played well in some games under Jose ( which proves they still have the ability) but in others they seem to lack the commitment that is needed at this level.

Now i may be wrong but its not very professional to just stroll through games, every player can/has bad games but the effort should always be at 400% and in all honesty i did not see that yesterday.

You see i get what you're saying, but i don't think effort in itself is or has been an issue. It's how said effort is applied in our tactical plans which i think is more the issue.

I think Jose is a pragmatic manager who will know that the physical abilities of the players to put the kind of physical effort that Poch demanded is now probably beyond them, so they are more prone to sitting back (our backline is more slow than in the past overall) and choosing our moments as to when to exert pressure etc.
It's why that change brought some dividends in the initial games: teams were used to us trying to push them back and pen them in, and we changed it to sitting more compact and then breaking on them to exploit spaces left etc.

I think that is sound and pragmatic; however, the problem is that it is also limited and i think tactically, Everton and the kind of personnel they had showed up those weaknesses big time.

Basically, i don't think we lost because of a lack of effort: imo it was a lack of ideas and also creativity

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You see i get what you're saying, but i don't think effort in itself is or has been an issue. It's how said effort is applied in our tactical plans which i think is more the issue.

I think Jose is a pragmatic manager who will know that the physical abilities of the players to put the kind of physical effort that Poch demanded is now probably beyond them, so they are more prone to sitting back (our backline is more slow than in the past overall) and choosing our moments as to when to exert pressure etc.
It's why that change bought some dividends in the initial games: teams were used to us trying to push them back and pen them in, and we changed it to sitting more compact and then breaking on them to exploit spaces left etc.

I think that is sound and pragmatic; however, the problem is that it is also limited and i think tactically, Everton and the kind of personnel they had showed up those weaknesses big time.

Basically, i don't think we lost because of a lack of effort: imo it was a lack of ideas and also creativity

We were bottom of the league in all key metrics after that game including distances covered, tackles made and presses made
That’s a lack of effort
Statistically it was worse than Fulham and West Brom. And that’s from a Team that had the better chances and had the most possession. It was lazy effort not tactics that hurt
The dele change was tactical and that hurt us I’d agree but the lack of players making any actual real effort cost us much more

 

[parklane1]

You see i get what you're saying, but i don't think effort in itself is or has been an issue. It's how said effort is applied in our tactical plans which i think is more the issue.

I think Jose is a pragmatic manager who will know that the physical abilities of the players to put the kind of physical effort that Poch demanded is now probably beyond them, so they are more prone to sitting back (our backline is more slow than in the past overall) and choosing our moments as to when to exert pressure etc.
It's why that change bought some dividends in the initial games: teams were used to us trying to push them back and pen them in, and we changed it to sitting more compact and then breaking on them to exploit spaces left etc.

I think that is sound and pragmatic; however, the problem is that it is also limited and i think tactically, Everton and the kind of personnel they had showed up those weaknesses big time.

Basically, i don't think we lost because of a lack of effort: imo it was a lack of ideas and also creativity

Fair comment and you make some good points and you may be right, but i do see a lack of effort (at times) but i do agree that we BADLY lack creativity ( and have since Eriksen). The trouble with lack of effort is that it also affects the players individual actions and they then to make bad decisions on the pitch, as you say we can not work at the same physical effort that we did under Poch ( teams burn out and we have players who have) so we have had to adjust our game a lot.

Poch came in for a lot of stick about our downturn in form ( some of it was deserved) but some of our players also have to take a lot of blame. Now its debatable who lost who ( Poch losing the players or the players giving up under him) and we have had all sorts of debates on here from all members who was to blame. Personally i think it was both of them but that's history now.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Which players are you referring to here btw?

Toby was one who never gets slated. He literally didn’t jump from their goal
Kane was very lazy. Didn’t make one press all game and left his colleagues stranded
Davies worked hard actually but his lack of quality with the ball hurt us
Winks was toss and barely moved from
His trusted central area.
son and Lucas were ineffective but did actually do some running
Dier I didn’t notice until they turned him inside out a few times so there's another’s
In fact for me Dele our a shift in, Doherty did and although I don’t rate PEH his work rate was IMO the best by a long long way

 

[glorygloryeze]

We were bottom of the league in all key metrics after that game including distances covered, tackles made and presses made
That’s a lack of effort
Statistically it was worse than Fulham and West Brom. And that’s from a Team that had the better chances and had the most possession. It was lazy effort not tactics that hurt
The dele change was tactical and that hurt us I’d agree but the lack of players making any actual real effort cost us much more

I don't think a hallmark of our team under Jose is to run, make tackles etc. In key areas of the pitch (our defensive third perhaps) but we rarely have chased, harried etc like we used to be able to more strategically 2 years ago. I honestly think Everton tactically had us where they wanted in that they sat relatively deep with not too high a defensive line and they had the players to spring the likes of Richarlison into space when they got the ball from deep (e.g Rodriguez or Gomes). It meant we were on edge to close them down as we knew we'd leave ourselves exposed at the back. That was a situation made worse when we conceded imo as the players seem generally more scared to concede than say 'f it, let's attack and roll that dice'...

 

[glorygloryeze]

Toby was one who never gets slated. He literally didn’t jump from their goal
Kane was very lazy. Didn’t make one press all game and left his colleagues stranded
Davies worked hard actually but his lack of quality with the ball hurt us
Winks was toss and barely moved from
His trusted central area.
son and Lucas were ineffective but did actually do some running
Dier I didn’t notice until they turned him inside out a few times so there's another’s
In fact for me Dele our a shift in, Doherty did and although I don’t rate PEH his work rate was IMO the best by a long long way

Fair points. What i will say re Toby is that a striker like Calvert-Lewin would always leave him for dust in the air since his injury of November 2017. The sad thing is: i'm not sure any of our centre-backs could have stopped that goal, or at least stopped Calvert-Lewin getting the header. That never used to be the case

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair points. What i will say re Toby is that a striker like Calvert-Lewin would always leave him for dust in the air since his injury of November 2017. The sad thing is: i'm not sure any of our centre-backs could have stopped that goal, or at least stopped Calvert-Lewin getting the header. That never used to be the case

Brilliant header
TBF if a player can get that kind of leap he would beat peak Toby and jan IMO (I think he is taller). But we needed to make it harder for him as that’s the other dark art of defending

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think a hallmark of our team under Jose is to run, make tackles etc. In key areas of the pitch (our defensive third perhaps) but we rarely have chased, harried etc like we used to be able to more strategically 2 years ago. I honestly think Everton tactically had us where they wanted in that they sat relatively deep with not too high a defensive line and they had the players to spring the likes of Richarlison into space when they got the ball from deep (e.g Rodriguez or Gomes). It meant we were on edge to close them down as we knew we'd leave ourselves exposed at the back. That was a situation made worse when we conceded imo as the players seem generally more scared to concede than say 'f it, let's attack and roll that dice'...

Look at the post I made in the tactics thread
We made more effort at pressing (could be argued we made effort) but it was ineffective as it was solo efforts, not collective (because the supporting cast were lazy)
And yeah they were deep but under no pressure at all

 

[SteveAWOL]

Poch wanted Mane and got Clinton N'jie followed by GK N'koudou

Not forgetting Pochettino wanting Wijnaldum but ending up with Sissoko, whilst the latter has become a decent squad player he ain’t ever going to another Dembele but maybe the former could’ve been under Pochettino’s tutelage...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090228361740410880

 

[nayenezgani]

If he pulls off Reguilon and Bale, fudge it, he can do all the dodgy share deals he likes.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Come on read the fudging accounts!

https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/media/10293/tottenham-hotspur-limited-300617-annual-report-2017.pdf
Page 34

"The Company has issued 4 million preference shares of £0.001 each, which were purchased at a price of £10.00 per share by Macon Inc., a company with which the Group is under common control. No voting rights were allotted to the preference shares. The preference shares were accounted for as equity as there was no obligation to make repayments. In November 2016 the Company bought back the remaining 2 million shares from Macon Inc. at a price of £10.00 per share"

Macon Inc, a Joe Lewis company, put £40m into the club. It was then repaid £10m in 2016 accounts, £20m in the 2017 accounts etc.

You know what, fair enough. You're right, I didn't read closely enough - apologies. They just took the little money that had loaned us back.

I agree of course and you are right, but the point that others made was that Dubai posted some stats up that he implied made Levy look bad ( no surprise there), as it turned out he had not done his homework by reading through it correctly.

Fair enough, mate - read it incorrectly.

 

[Bullet]

We were bottom of the league in all key metrics after that game including distances covered, tackles made and presses made
That’s a lack of effort

7 hours ago you said that we were top of the league for presses made . They were just brick presses.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

7 hours ago you said that we were top of the league for presses made . They were just brick presses.

No attempted presses we were top
We failed on them though and Had worst stats than Fulham ... and their awful

 

[P.D.]

this thread is now 307 pages, ultimately in my view...

We were very close to being a really formidable League team. Better than any other previous incarnation at Spurs by some distance, we played attractive football, had a progressive manager, got a big shiny new stadium and were in all intents, close to something special. We bottled it. Or specifically, Levy did. He got lucky Poch was far better than he anticipated. But with that, you have to choose whether you shoot your shot or not, and Levy decided not to. He didn't back the man he bought in. He's had a habit of this approach in previous seasons (Nelson and Saha) but this was a different hunk of burning love entirely, this wasn't Harry at the helm, we had a manager who if supported could have really stayed another few years if the club became successful.

As i keep referring to, 3 years ago, 2017, we were better than Liverpool. Poch had 1 year longer than Klopp. The difference is the owners. Yes they made money from Coutinho but the Board said "what do you need to be successful" and they went and got that ask. 1 CL and 1 League title later, we're further away from Liverpool than in any time over the last 10 years.

You boys who keep saying "ah the stadium etc, give it 5 years we'll splash the cash Levy has to be tight due to funds etc". What in the last 20 years has given you reason to believe he will do that?

The summer of buying no one has cost us big time, you need to freshen up the squad every year to bring in new faces, persoalities, keep up pressure for places etc.

However lots of people on here said the we need to be brave quotes were about Poch wanting to develop the squad and not sign players for the sake of it and he reportedly rejected many players we could have signed - as ever the truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The summer of buying no one has cost us big time, you need to freshen up the squad every year to bring in new faces, persoalities, keep up pressure for places etc.

However lots of people on here said the we need to be brave quotes were about Poch wanting to develop the squad and not sign players for the sake of it and he reportedly rejected many players we could have signed - as ever the truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

Will be interesting to see how pool fare in a few years time as they havent brought in anyone of note over the last 3 windows and are now getting column inches on the need to invest