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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Jurgen the German said:
Nothing wrong with a business admitting they made a mistake, however they want to spin it in the media. I see Waitrose has just reversed a policy to force all employees who were self-isolating to make up the time off they took.

The company said: "We're really sorry that we got it wrong.
"We've listened to our Partners and changed our policy. "
Click to expand...
Waitrose are owned by those 'partners' ie employees....so probably have slightly more clout when they want something done or changed.
 
DubaiSpur said:
It's unlikely, but imo, doesn't really matter, mate. If that's really the case, cut back, dip into the cash reserves we've built up - do your bit. West Brom's directors and senior staff have taken pay cuts of 400% to keep their ordinary staff fully paid.

I deeply dislike Joe Lewis - a more utterly , comprehensively useless owner, I could not imagine, and he's no saint. I don't expect anything from him. But there are still ways to do the right thing - if the club want to.
Click to expand...
That assumes the club still thinks it will have cash reserves left.... Trying to apply some numerical thinking to that...

We had £120 million of cash in bank (and £657 million of debt) in the last set of accounts. Our pre tax profit on a year of exceptional revenue was £87 million. That profit number was generated:

1. With a run to the CL final (We will probably make £40 million less income this season due to only reaching last 16.
2. After a transfer window in which we didn't buy a single player so a net profit on players (Dembele sale in January).
3. When operating a lower wage bill - we have since signed some expensive players (and an expensive manager) and given some big pay rises. Let's assume though that we are net zero here due to bigger bonuses in season 2018/19 due to that run to the CL final and finishing in the top 4.
4. With a full PL season being played compared to only 75% of a season this year. Again let's assume net zero here due to increased revenue from our stadium instead of playing at Wembley
5. With very large sponsorship bonuses due to getting to CL final (not to mention playing a full PL season of 38 games). Let's call that a £20 million difference (is probably considerably more than this in reality across all sponsors)
6. Reduced TV income this season if the season isn't completed. That could be as much as £37 million if dividing the reduction equally amongst the 20 clubs.
7. Reduced prize money this season (best case scenario difference between being 4th and wherever we are currently in the league). Worst case no prize money due to season not finishing. Let's call it a £4 million reduction based on the season finishing and us being 3 places lower than last year.
8. No exceptional items in that season (i.e. we didn't sack a manager and his entire back room team). I think I read that this cost £12 million.
9. Having to rent Wembley that season for a more punitive amount than the previous season versus the cost of operating our own stadium. We're probably £15 million better off here.

So if we compare last season to this season - we're already over £95 million worse off before we look at implications of transfer spending. So in theory already looking at a loss instead of a profit and starting to use our cash reserves before we consider the further implications on cash flow that the suspension is causing. Let's say we're now down to £110 million cash in bank.

So first consider our transfer fee outlay since that reporting period. Let's be kind and assume that we paid no agents fees at all and we were able to spread all of the transfer fees equally over 3 years.... That means that this year and next year we'll be having to pay:

Ndombele (£51 million) = £17 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Lo Celso: £45 million = £15 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Sessegnon: £25 million = £8 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Clarke: £10 million = £3 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Bergwijn: £30 million = £10 million in this accounting year and same again in next.

That is £53 million of transfer fees payable this accounting year and the same again next year. I would imagine that monies owed for players sold is probably a maximum of £20 million. So £33 million more of outgoings this and next year. Looking at this year's portion only we're now down to £77 million cash in bank.

Now let's think about our cash flow. Usually right about now season ticket money rolls in. If we take even a low guess of £1,000 average for 42,000 ST's that is £42,000,000 of income arriving as a steady flow of income to our cash balance between now and early May. At the moment I don't think the club can bank on that at all.

I think I read previously that the revenue from the 8,000 corporate seats at Spurs matches the revenue from the 50,000 plus match day tickets. I have no idea when monies from corporate sales are due, but let's assume it pretty much matches the schedule for season tickets. That is another £40 million that the club would usually have in the bank.

So we don't have the usual £80 million or so hitting our cash flow at this time of year but we still have April, May, June and July's wage bills to pay that's £16 million a month = £64 million from now until the start of next season. Plus interest payments on our considerable loans (let's assume the same interest payments as for the reported accounting period (£25m) and then take one third of that as the four month portion.... that's another £8 million. With no income this will all have to be paid from cash reserves of course. We're now down to only £5 million of cash in bank. Or put more pertinently not enough to even refund season ticket holders the £10 million+ total for the 5 home games that are likely to remain unplayed (at least with fans present) let alone the corporate ticket holders for the same.

Now consider on top of that fact that we are about to enter (or should I say have entered) a massive world wide recession, with likely a bunch of tax increases to pay for the current social spending. Some of the companies taking boxes at our stadium will no longer exist when we resume, others will probably have to drastically tighten belts. Combine that with most clubs around the World being on the precipice of collapse so being able to get out a problem via selling a player may not be possible.

I really do think that the club needs every penny it can get at the moment. It seems that too many people are assuming that football will carry on as normal next season as a worst case scenario. However that is probably a very best case scenario at the moment. Cash really is king right now and the club need to do everything they can to protect that in this period of complete uncertainty. I'd be very surprised if Levy hasn't renegotiated our debt and interest repayable in the next 18 months as a precaution, even if the renegotiated debt is at a more punitive rate.

There are only a few ways out of this.

1. The owners inject funds. I cannot see them doing this as they haven't done so previously (other than to increase their holding via the back door of underwriting the issue)
2. The owners seek an equity injection for a stake in the club. I would love this to happen as it would make us hugely powerful right now but, again, unfortunately I cannot see messrs Lewis and Levy diluting their holding without they themselves directly gaining financially
3. The club takes on even more debt. With £657 million of it already and a potential deep recession and large tax hikes on the way, I'm not sure this is feasible.
4. Next season starts with games played normally at stadiums with spectators as standard within a month or so of the usual start date (currently probably 50-50 at best) and we accept that we'll have far lower cash reserves left and accept that we tighten our belts with wages and transfer spending.

Sorry if that was all a little long-winded and boring. There's a lot of guess work in there but I hope i haven't exaggerated anything too much.
 
Last edited:
scaramanga said:
What a pile of clams.

WTF do they know about large scale business finance? What I can tell you is that, if we don't make changes, our club runs out if cash in a fairly short time. This is not a decision we'll have taken lightly and it's not one we'd have taken if we didn't have to. You think Levy is unaware of the reputational damage this kind of thing would cause?

Liverpool, in contrast, were clearly not in a position where they had to do this and did it anyway.
Click to expand...
I think Liverpool probably were in a position where they had to do this but seeing the negative impact of the announcement their owners instead stepped in and said they would cover it.
 
Finney Is Back said:
That assumes the club still thinks it will have cash reserves left.... Trying to apply some numerical thinking to that...

We had £120 million of cash in bank (and £657 million of debt) in the last set of accounts. Our pre tax profit on a year of exceptional revenue was £87 million. That profit number was generated:

1. With a run to the CL final (We will probably make £40 million less income this season due to only reaching last 16.
2. After a transfer window in which we didn't buy a single player so a net profit on players (Dembele sale in January).
3. When operating a lower wage bill - we have since signed some expensive players (and an expensive manager) and given some big pay rises. Let's assume though that we are net zero here due to bigger bonuses in season 2018/19 due to that run to the CL final and finishing in the top 4.
4. With a full PL season being played compared to only 75% of a season this year. Again let's assume net zero here due to increased revenue from our stadium instead of playing at Wembley
5. With very large sponsorship bonuses due to getting to CL final (not to mention playing a full PL season of 38 games). Let's call that a £20 million difference (is probably considerably more than this in reality across all sponsors)
6. Reduced TV income this season if the season isn't completed. That could be as much as £37 million if dividing the reduction equally amongst the 20 clubs.
7. Reduced prize money this season (best case scenario difference between being 4th and wherever we are currently in the league). Worst case no prize money due to season not finishing. Let's call it a £4 million reduction based on the season finishing and us being 3 places lower than last year.
8. No exceptional items in that season (i.e. we didn't sack a manager and his entire back room team). I think I read that this cost £12 million.
9. Having to rent Wembley that season for a more punitive amount than the previous season versus the cost of operating our own stadium. We're probably £15 million better off here.

So if we compare last season to this season - we're already over £95 million worse off before we look at implications of transfer spending. So in theory already looking at a loss instead of a profit and starting to use our cash reserves before we consider the further implications on cash flow that the suspension is causing. Let's say we're now down to £110 million cash in bank.

So first consider our transfer fee outlay since that reporting period. Let's be kind and assume that we paid no agents fees at all and we were able to spread all of the transfer fees equally over 3 years.... That means that this year and next year we'll be having to pay:

Ndombele (£51 million) = £17 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Lo Celso: £45 million = £15 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Sessegnon: £25 million = £8 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Clarke: £10 million = £3 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Bergwijn: £30 million = £10 million in this accounting year and same again in next.

That is £53 million of transfer fees payable this accounting year and the same again next year. I would imagine that monies owed for players sold is probably a maximum of £20 million. So £33 million more of outgoings this and next year. Looking at this year's portion only we're now down to £77 million cash in bank.

Now let's think about our cash flow. Usually right about now season ticket money rolls in. If we take even a low guess of £1,000 average for 42,000 ST's that is £42,000,000 of income arriving as a steady flow of income to our cash balance between now and early May. At the moment I don't think the club can bank on that at all.

I think I read previously that the revenue from the 8,000 corporate seats at Spurs matches the revenue from the 50,000 plus match day tickets. I have no idea when monies from corporate sales are due, but let's assume it pretty much matches the schedule for season tickets. That is another £40 million that the club would usually have in the bank.

So we don't have the usual £80 million or so hitting our cash flow at this time of year but we still have April, May, June and July's wage bills to pay that's £16 million a month = £64 million from now until the start of next season. Plus interest payments on our considerable loans (let's assume the same interest payments as for the reported accounting period and then take one third of that as the four month portion.... that's another £8 million. With no income this will all have to be paid from cash reserves of course. We're now down to only £5 million of cash in bank. Or put more pertinently not enough to even refund season ticket holders the £10 million+ total for the 5 home games that are likely to remain unplayed (at least with fans present) let alone the corporate ticket holders for the same.

Now consider on top of that fact that we are about to enter (or should I say have entered) a massive world wide recession, with likely a bunch of tax increases to pay for the current social spending. Some of the companies taking boxes at our stadium will no longer exist when we resume, others will probably have to drastically tighten belts. Combine that with most clubs around the World being on the precipice of collapse so being able to get out a problem via selling a player may not be possible.

I really do think that the club needs every penny it can get at the moment. It seems that too many people are assuming that football will carry on as normal next season as a worst case scenario. However that is probably a very best case scenario at the moment. Cash really is king at the moment and the club need to do everything they can to protect that right now. I'd be very surprised if Levy hasn't renegotiated our debt and interest repayable in the next 18 months as a precaution, even the renegotiated debt is at a more punitive rate.

There are only a few ways out of this.

1. The owners inject funds. I cannot see them doing this as they haven't done so previously (other than to increase their holding via the back door of underwriting the issue)
2. The owners seek an equity injection for a stake in the club. I would love this to happen as it would make us hugely powerful right now but, again, unfortunately I cannot see messrs Lewis and Levy diluting their holding without they themselves directly gaining financially
3. The club takes on even more debt. With £657 million of it already and a potential deep recession and large tax hikes on the way, I'm not sure this is feasible.
4. Next season starts with games played normally at stadiums with spectators as standard within a month or so of the usual start date (currently probably 50-50 at best).

Sorry if that was all a little long-winded and boring. There's a lot of guess work in there but I hope i haven't exaggerated anything too much.
Click to expand...

The most likely option is something similar to what was done in the past

- Lewis can guarantee any extension of debt personally, so the club will have access to the funds and we can get favorable terms on the rates.

The government will also probably work with banks to extend credit for organizations beyond usual parameters and at decent rates.
 
Raziel said:
The most likely option is something similar to what was done in the past

- Lewis can guarantee any extension of debt personally, so the club will have access to the funds and we can get favorable terms on the rates.

The government will also probably work with banks to extend credit for organizations beyond usual parameters and at decent rates.
Click to expand...
Can he? And more importantly, will he? There was talk that he would do this previously, but I don't think I have ever seen any evidence that he has underwritten any debt at Tottenham with any of his personal fortune. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Lewis had used the paper valuation of his stake in THFC to leverage borrowing for other investments.

I would imagine most of Lewis' investments are currently WAY down on their value 6 months ago. How leveraged with debt are those companies? Will any of them go under? Of course one would expect him to have a diversified portfolio, but unless he had forseen this and happened to hold a large amount of his wealth in gold (unlikely) then his net worth will be drastically reduced right now.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Can he? And more importantly, will he? There was talk that he would do this previously, but I don't think I have ever seen any evidence that he has underwritten any debt at Tottenham with any of his personal fortune. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Lewis had used the paper valuation of his stake in THFC to leverage borrowing for other investments.

I would imagine most of Lewis' investments are currently WAY down on their value 6 months ago. How leveraged with debt are those companies? Will any of them go under? Of course one would expect him to have a diversified portfolio, but unless he had forseen this and happened to hold a large amount of his wealth in gold (unlikely) then his net worth will be drastically reduced right now.
Click to expand...

He has in the past, believe in the early part of stadium financing, I'll see if I can dig it up.

As I said above, I think the government and banking view of extending debt will need to be considerably different unless we are willing to accept a lot of companies going under.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1247552234487009281

7900617a056645aca77d9d0291770a7a.jpg
 
Raziel said:
He has in the past, believe in the early part of stadium financing, I'll see if I can dig it up.

As I said above, I think the government and banking view of extending debt will need to be considerably different unless we are willing to accept a lot of companies going under.
Click to expand...
Please. I'd like to see it. I remember fans saying that he could/would do this but don't remember him actually doing so.
 
Finney Is Back said:
That assumes the club still thinks it will have cash reserves left.... Trying to apply some numerical thinking to that...

We had £120 million of cash in bank (and £657 million of debt) in the last set of accounts. Our pre tax profit on a year of exceptional revenue was £87 million. That profit number was generated:

1. With a run to the CL final (We will probably make £40 million less income this season due to only reaching last 16.
2. After a transfer window in which we didn't buy a single player so a net profit on players (Dembele sale in January).
3. When operating a lower wage bill - we have since signed some expensive players (and an expensive manager) and given some big pay rises. Let's assume though that we are net zero here due to bigger bonuses in season 2018/19 due to that run to the CL final and finishing in the top 4.
4. With a full PL season being played compared to only 75% of a season this year. Again let's assume net zero here due to increased revenue from our stadium instead of playing at Wembley
5. With very large sponsorship bonuses due to getting to CL final (not to mention playing a full PL season of 38 games). Let's call that a £20 million difference (is probably considerably more than this in reality across all sponsors)
6. Reduced TV income this season if the season isn't completed. That could be as much as £37 million if dividing the reduction equally amongst the 20 clubs.
7. Reduced prize money this season (best case scenario difference between being 4th and wherever we are currently in the league). Worst case no prize money due to season not finishing. Let's call it a £4 million reduction based on the season finishing and us being 3 places lower than last year.
8. No exceptional items in that season (i.e. we didn't sack a manager and his entire back room team). I think I read that this cost £12 million.
9. Having to rent Wembley that season for a more punitive amount than the previous season versus the cost of operating our own stadium. We're probably £15 million better off here.

So if we compare last season to this season - we're already over £95 million worse off before we look at implications of transfer spending. So in theory already looking at a loss instead of a profit and starting to use our cash reserves before we consider the further implications on cash flow that the suspension is causing. Let's say we're now down to £110 million cash in bank.

So first consider our transfer fee outlay since that reporting period. Let's be kind and assume that we paid no agents fees at all and we were able to spread all of the transfer fees equally over 3 years.... That means that this year and next year we'll be having to pay:

Ndombele (£51 million) = £17 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Lo Celso: £45 million = £15 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Sessegnon: £25 million = £8 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Clarke: £10 million = £3 million in this accounting year and same again in next.
Bergwijn: £30 million = £10 million in this accounting year and same again in next.

That is £53 million of transfer fees payable this accounting year and the same again next year. I would imagine that monies owed for players sold is probably a maximum of £20 million. So £33 million more of outgoings this and next year. Looking at this year's portion only we're now down to £77 million cash in bank.

Now let's think about our cash flow. Usually right about now season ticket money rolls in. If we take even a low guess of £1,000 average for 42,000 ST's that is £42,000,000 of income arriving as a steady flow of income to our cash balance between now and early May. At the moment I don't think the club can bank on that at all.

I think I read previously that the revenue from the 8,000 corporate seats at Spurs matches the revenue from the 50,000 plus match day tickets. I have no idea when monies from corporate sales are due, but let's assume it pretty much matches the schedule for season tickets. That is another £40 million that the club would usually have in the bank.

So we don't have the usual £80 million or so hitting our cash flow at this time of year but we still have April, May, June and July's wage bills to pay that's £16 million a month = £64 million from now until the start of next season. Plus interest payments on our considerable loans (let's assume the same interest payments as for the reported accounting period (£25m) and then take one third of that as the four month portion.... that's another £8 million. With no income this will all have to be paid from cash reserves of course. We're now down to only £5 million of cash in bank. Or put more pertinently not enough to even refund season ticket holders the £10 million+ total for the 5 home games that are likely to remain unplayed (at least with fans present) let alone the corporate ticket holders for the same.

Now consider on top of that fact that we are about to enter (or should I say have entered) a massive world wide recession, with likely a bunch of tax increases to pay for the current social spending. Some of the companies taking boxes at our stadium will no longer exist when we resume, others will probably have to drastically tighten belts. Combine that with most clubs around the World being on the precipice of collapse so being able to get out a problem via selling a player may not be possible.

I really do think that the club needs every penny it can get at the moment. It seems that too many people are assuming that football will carry on as normal next season as a worst case scenario. However that is probably a very best case scenario at the moment. Cash really is king right now and the club need to do everything they can to protect that in this period of complete uncertainty. I'd be very surprised if Levy hasn't renegotiated our debt and interest repayable in the next 18 months as a precaution, even if the renegotiated debt is at a more punitive rate.

There are only a few ways out of this.

1. The owners inject funds. I cannot see them doing this as they haven't done so previously (other than to increase their holding via the back door of underwriting the issue)
2. The owners seek an equity injection for a stake in the club. I would love this to happen as it would make us hugely powerful right now but, again, unfortunately I cannot see messrs Lewis and Levy diluting their holding without they themselves directly gaining financially
3. The club takes on even more debt. With £657 million of it already and a potential deep recession and large tax hikes on the way, I'm not sure this is feasible.
4. Next season starts with games played normally at stadiums with spectators as standard within a month or so of the usual start date (currently probably 50-50 at best) and we accept that we'll have far lower cash reserves left and accept that we tighten our belts with wages and transfer spending.

Sorry if that was all a little long-winded and boring. There's a lot of guess work in there but I hope i haven't exaggerated anything too much.
Click to expand...
I don’t think there’s an issue with the logic although I think some numbers may be higher and some lower... money paid on transfer fees would higher imo for example and were getting less in.

it’s a logical way to show why we’re going what we’re doing
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t think there’s an issue with the logic although I think some numbers may be higher and some lower... money paid on transfer fees would higher imo for example and were getting less in.

it’s a logical way to show why we’re going what we’re doing
Click to expand...
I would hope that if this ends in the not too distant future and we end up fine then the club would pay the furloughed staff a bonus covering their loss of earnings.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t think there’s an issue with the logic although I think some numbers may be higher and some lower... money paid on transfer fees would higher imo for example and were getting less in.

it’s a logical way to show why we’re going what we’re doing
Click to expand...

I don't think a lot of people really appreciate the seriousness of no match day revenue and no TV money for football clubs. Turnover and historical profit numbers tend to have grabbed the headlines over the last few days as a means to beat the brick out of clubs but they mean diddly squat at the moment. There is little to no income at the minute - looking at our 4 income streams (Matchday, TV, Prize Money, Commercial Revenue), only commercial will generate us any money and that will be minimal. There is no other income. Therefore, the only numbers that matter at the moment are cash and current expenditure.

Eventually, as Finney rightly says, clubs are going to need a cash injection, to borrow or dilute their ownership. There is no magic money tree. Clubs can only support this for so long before they need additional funding and "so long" for most clubs is 3-4 months looking at a lot of club accounts.
 
galeforce said:
It’s obviously different for everyone, but I guess there must be a reasonable amount of people for whom 80% of salary but no commuting costs/socialising/lunch buying works out about even?
Click to expand...
I’d say so
I know some people I work with are WFH in full pay and their finally loving it
 
galeforce said:
I WFH semi regularly anyway, I’m lucky I can do that, but yes, I’m saving a fortune on commuting and spending more time with my kids.
Click to expand...
£400 a month train ticket saved, 2 hours commuting saved a day
£750 No nursery fees or after school clubs saved
2 1/2 weeks so far of amazing quality time with the kids and the Mrs
It's not been too bad !!
 
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