Daniel Levy - Chairman

[ricky2tricky4city]

I am not talking about the philosophical or ethical implications of the differences of salaries in normal times.

I am talking about the optics of, in these unprecedented times, the 8th richest club in the world by turnover (and yes I'm aware of our huge debt) taking government money to pay its staff if the directors carried on taking a huge salary. Especially at a time when, despite what some think, we haven't yet been followed by other clubs.

Have no issue with Levy earning significantly more than the groundskeeper or the cleaner generally.

Can people really not accept that the optics of what we're currently doing is brick? And will be even more brick if Levy and the directors go home this season with multi million pound salaries? You can simultaneously not care about what the optics are (fair), think the directors don't care (fair) and think we're doing the right thing for the club (fair).

As an aside, I note that Tesco are rightly getting an absolute bashing in the media for their recent actions with the dividends.

@Aldo ....he's trolling you ? Surely

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I am talking about the optics of, in these unprecedented times, You can simultaneously not care about what the optics are
.

Erm.

Random says BAN

 

[Finney Is Back]

There has been a lot of criticism of these companies. There is no point in a direct like for like though because nobody is a supporter of BA or Tesla. I'm guessing you also don't follow print media about those companies as much as you do about Spurs, nor do most people bring up Tesla in day to day conversation as they would conversations about their football clubs.

This is a grey issue. I know people don't want to criticise Levy or see any criticism of him. But you can acknowledge that nobody will know the financials of the club as well as him and that he (likely) hasn't taken this decision lightly.

While also acknowledging the fact that from a PR point of view, we are coming off like absolute brick at the moment. We have as our contemporaries two clubs in the relegation zone (one almost certainly will be gone and the other with the smallest turnover in the PL) and.....fudging Mike Ashley. We have, as far as I'm aware, not topped up the extra 20%. We seemingly told staff just minutes before putting out our official statement. And, so far, we haven't seen other clubs join us, other than the Liverpool debacle.

You can not care, bring up BA, think eventually all clubs will join. All reasonable points. But don't be surprised when people do criticise.

Nobody is a supporter of Tesla? Try spending some time with my fanboy cousin!

also we’re slightly unique in that we have £657 million of debt and a non sugar daddy owner.

 

[Hootnow]

Nobody is a supporter of Tesla? Try spending some time with my fanboy cousin!

also we’re slightly unique in that we have £657 million of debt and a non sugar daddy owner.

Not saying people can't fanboy but I doubt people sit there talking about Tesla etc on a daily basis.

You're right and I haven't even said that we've made the wrong decision. Just that regardless, we're not coming off looking great right now.

 

[StephenH]

Not saying people can't fanboy but I doubt people sit there talking about Tesla etc on a daily basis.

You're right and I haven't even said that we've made the wrong decision. Just that regardless, we're not coming off looking great right now.

it’s all ballo....rubbish, you just wait till the big problems rock up later in the year! This current PR faux par will fade into insignificance!

 

[scaramanga]

I agree a pay cut would be appropriate, and certainly if their workload has been reduced. But that isn't what you said previously.

Irrespective of anything else the directors are, I would imagine, among the employees least likely to be working a reduced load under these circumstances. Your suggestion that they should work for free, while the majority of other staff retain full pay despite not being required to work defies basic logic, no matter how emotive you try to make it.

Different scale and kind of business but that's certainly the case for me.

Two directors are self isolating due to age, another is because his wife has pretty much every "pre-existing medical condition" under the sun. All our office staff are working from home because that's the responsible thing to do. So on top of all of my usual work, I'm coordinating everyone's communications to the factories, answering the door myself, opening the mail, etc.

fudged if I'm taking a pay cut whilst doing more work. Levy is probably in a similar (but with more minions) position.

 

[scaramanga]

Not saying people can't fanboy but I doubt people sit there talking about Tesla etc on a daily basis.

You're right and I haven't even said that we've made the wrong decision. Just that regardless, we're not coming off looking great right now.

You've never met the lazy prick who I had to sack for spending all day on EV/Tesla websites.

Final straw was when he tried to convince me to get rid of my car and get a Model S.

 

[metalgear]

we got no major partners so we don't care

Nothing wrong with a business admitting they made a mistake, however they want to spin it in the media. I see Waitrose has just reversed a policy to force all employees who were self-isolating to make up the time off they took.

The company said: "We're really sorry that we got it wrong.
"We've listened to our Partners and changed our policy. "

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not saying people can't fanboy but I doubt people sit there talking about Tesla etc on a daily basis.

You're right and I haven't even said that we've made the wrong decision. Just that regardless, we're not coming off looking great right now.

Pretty much my feelings also. I understand the business reasons behind why we did it. I don’t agree with it but I’m sure Levy doesn’t care what I think or what anyone outside of the board of directors thinks. Not saying that’s right or wrong that’s just how it is and I accept that. Liverpool are a different animal to us. They’re a unique club in both good and bad ways. But I think their owners get that Liverpool are inherently different to us and the fans have a lot of clout. Our fans are much more subservient to ownership.

One thing I don’t understand is people sticking up for millionaires and billionaires. In an age when regular people are volunteering for free to help their neighbours, delivering shopping, donating blood, helping out financially it’s not pushing the boat out to ask those who can afford it to help out.

 

[Parklaner81]

Different scale and kind of business but that's certainly the case for me.

Two directors are self isolating due to age, another is because his wife has pretty much every "pre-existing medical condition" under the sun. All our office staff are working from home because that's the responsible thing to do. So on top of all of my usual work, I'm coordinating everyone's communications to the factories, answering the door myself, opening the mail, etc.

fudged if I'm taking a pay cut whilst doing more work. Levy is probably in a similar (but with more minions) position.

Sounds like a similar story to my employer. I'm only (very) part-time these days due to having work elsewhere, but I work closely with the MD. Her workload, and the associated pressure has gone through the roof over the past few weeks. Dealing with the combination of staff absences and an increase to our core workload, responding to a threatened closure of our premises, all sorts of additional industry-specific pressures stemming from the circumstances, and trying to steer the company through this crisis and protect everyone's jobs.

I certainly won't be suggesting she consider working for free at this time.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Liverpool are a different animal to us. They’re a unique club in both good and bad ways. But I think their owners get that Liverpool are inherently different to us and the fans have a lot of clout. Our fans are much more subservient to ownership..

I'm slowly coming to that realization myself.

One thing I don’t understand is people sticking up for millionaires and billionaires. In an age when regular people are volunteering for free to help their neighbours, delivering shopping, donating blood, helping out financially it’s not pushing the boat out to ask those who can afford it to help out.

Well-stated.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pretty much my feelings also. I understand the business reasons behind why we did it. I don’t agree with it but I’m sure Levy doesn’t care what I think or what anyone outside of the board of directors thinks. Not saying that’s right or wrong that’s just how it is and I accept that. Liverpool are a different animal to us. They’re a unique club in both good and bad ways. But I think their owners get that Liverpool are inherently different to us and the fans have a lot of clout. Our fans are much more subservient to ownership.

One thing I don’t understand is people sticking up for millionaires and billionaires. In an age when regular people are volunteering for free to help their neighbours, delivering shopping, donating blood, helping out financially it’s not pushing the boat out to ask those who can afford it to help out.

Liverpool’s announcement is very interesting in that they have caveated their ability to review everything which most people recognise as ticket prices increasing and we know how their fans reacted last time

Imagine if levy turned around and intimated that rather than furloughing....

 

[DubaiSpur]

Liverpool’s announcement is very interesting in that they have caveated their ability to review everything which most people recognise as ticket prices increasing and we know how their fans reacted last time

Imagine if levy turned around and intimated that rather than furloughing....

A) It might mean that, or it might not. I don't think it's wise to assume that, because people assumed they wouldn't U-turn on furloughing before they did. They are run differently than us now - far, far better than us, on the field and off it.

B) As for Levy intimating price rises to pay the staff, actually, I think people would have taken it a bit better. At least he isn't stiffing the taxpayer - everyone recognizes he's a penny-pinching sort anyway (Carragher amusingly said that the 'whole football world' expected Ashley and Levy to cut their staff's wages and go on furlough), but at least he would have had the social responsibility to a) pay his staff's wages in full, and b) not rely on the taxpayer to do so.

There will be a rise in taxes to fund the expenses of COVID-19 - people will be hit by that in general, once the crisis subsides. By taking the furlough money, what we're also indicating is that we are happy to contribute to that tax rise for all British citizens, whether or not they can afford it. By raising ticket prices, at least the only people Levy is forcing to pay the staff (and him and his own enormous wages) are Spurs fans. I think that's a more moral route to take, and I think fans would have recognized it as such.

Anyway, given his behaviour, you'll probably have prices increasing at Spurs too, so don't be so quick to think that Liverpool are exceptional in that if that does happen.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Anyway, the Trust have released a pretty measured statement on the whole sordid disaster -

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thfc-staffing-decisions-amid-covid-19-thst-position

I think it's the most measured take you can get - far more measured than I am at this farce. In short, the Trust clarifies that;

• there is no top up past 80% - every staff member has had a straight 20 pay cut.
• Club will apply for furlough money for 220 staff.
• Casual and matchday staff are also being furloughed.
• In the furlough cases, the club will pay staff 4/5ths of their wages and then claim that amount back from the government.

I know some people thought the club were topping it up - they aren't.

As for rationale, the Trust acknowledges the arguments made by folk on here as well - the club is in difficult financial circumstances, it was a pressure move on the players to get them to agree to pay cuts,and so on. It isn't condemning the use of the furlough scheme - I would have in the harshest possible terms, so they're more measured than me on that.

However, the Trust also points out that the move utterly, comprehensively backfired. Players have (rightly) seen wage cuts as a means to funnel revenue into club profits and the pockets of the owners - not to pay ordinary working-class staff. I know that's what Levy would have used it for, at least, so I can't really blame the players for banding together and rejecting that out of hand. And all we have to show for it is two weeks of relentlessly atrocious PR, angry staff, angry fans and (no doubt) somewhat warier potential sponsors.

To help the situation, the Trust suggests that Spurs top up the wages of the staff to 100%, guarantee no redundancies until June, and make their reasoning public for why using the furlough for 80% is necessary for the club - if they had done that in the first place, the PR disaster of the last two weeks would have been avoided, but better late than never. After that, the Trust suggests transparency to make it clear to the players where their cut wages will be going (to the staff, foundations, etc.) as a means to get them onside (for the whole league, not just Spurs).

They're all reasonable suggestions. And it offers the Club an out - 'we listened to our fans/Trust, we're clarifying that we will top up all wages to 100%, we will conduct outreach to players, etc.'

I hope the club takes it. It isn't too late to be a responsible actor for once.

I wish we as a fanbase held our owners with just the tiniest bit of accountability, like Liverpool's fanbase does, but that's dreaming. At the least, the Trust's suggestions are a conciliatory way to salvage some PR out of this.

 

[scaramanga]

(Carragher amusingly said that the 'whole football world' expected Ashley and Levy to cut their staff's wages and go on furlough), but at least he would have had the social responsibility to a) pay his staff's wages in full, and b) not rely on the taxpayer to do so.

Jamie Carragher doesn't strike me as the kind of chap who can tie his own shoelaces, let alone balance the books of a £Bn football club.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A) It might mean that, or it might not. I don't think it's wise to assume that, because people assumed they wouldn't U-turn on furloughing before they did. They are run differently than us now - far, far better than us, on the field and off it.

B) As for Levy intimating price rises to pay the staff, actually, I think people would have taken it a bit better. At least he isn't stiffing the taxpayer - everyone recognizes he's a penny-pinching sort anyway (Carragher amusingly said that the 'whole football world' expected Ashley and Levy to cut their staff's wages and go on furlough), but at least he would have had the social responsibility to a) pay his staff's wages in full, and b) not rely on the taxpayer to do so.

There will be a rise in taxes to fund the expenses of COVID-19 - people will be hit by that in general, once the crisis subsides. By taking the furlough money, what we're also indicating is that we are happy to contribute to that tax rise for all British citizens, whether or not they can afford it. By raising ticket prices, at least the only people Levy is forcing to pay the staff (and him and his own enormous wages) are Spurs fans. I think that's a more moral route to take, and I think fans would have recognized it as such.

Anyway, given his behaviour, you'll probably have prices increasing at Spurs too, so don't be so quick to think that Liverpool are exceptional in that if that does happen.

Well its been widely covered on forums and the press that their intimating the increase

we have a ticket increase for next season already confirmed so we know what’s happening..

Liverpool are run like we were 3 years ago... writhing was in harmony ok and off the pitch. It can easily change and doesn’t take much

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Jamie Carragher doesn't strike me as the kind of chap who can tie his own shoelaces, let alone balance the books of a £Bn football club.

No but he would spit in the face of a kid

 

[scaramanga]

Anyway, the Trust have released a pretty measured statement on the whole sordid disaster -

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thfc-staffing-decisions-amid-covid-19-thst-position

I think it's the most measured take you can get - far more measured than I am at this farce. In short, the Trust clarifies that;

• there is no top up past 80% - every staff member has had a straight 20 pay cut.
• Club will apply for furlough money for 220 staff.
• Casual and matchday staff are also being furloughed.
• In the furlough cases, the club will pay staff 4/5ths of their wages and then claim that amount back from the government.

I know some people thought the club were topping it up - they aren't.

As for rationale, the Trust acknowledges the arguments made by folk on here as well - the club is in difficult financial circumstances, it was a pressure move on the players to get them to agree to pay cuts,and so on. It isn't condemning the use of the furlough scheme - I would have in the harshest possible terms, so they're more measured than me on that.

However, the Trust also points out that the move utterly, comprehensively backfired. Players have (rightly) seen wage cuts as a means to funnel revenue into club profits and the pockets of the owners - not to pay ordinary working-class staff. I know that's what Levy would have used it for, at least, so I can't really blame the players for banding together and rejecting that out of hand. And all we have to show for it is two weeks of relentlessly atrocious PR, angry staff, angry fans and (no doubt) somewhat warier potential sponsors.

To help the situation, the Trust suggests that Spurs top up the wages of the staff to 400%, guarantee no redundancies until June, and make their reasoning public for why using the furlough for 80% is necessary for the club - if they had done that in the first place, the PR disaster of the last two weeks would have been avoided, but better late than never. After that, the Trust suggests transparency to make it clear to the players where their cut wages will be going (to the staff, foundations, etc.) as a means to get them onside (for the whole league, not just Spurs).

They're all reasonable suggestions. And it offers the Club an out - 'we listened to our fans/Trust, we're clarifying that we will top up all wages to 400%, we will conduct outreach to players, etc.'

I hope the club takes it. It isn't too late to be a responsible actor for once.

I wish we as a fanbase held our owners with just the tiniest bit of accountability, like Liverpool's fanbase does, but that's dreaming. At the least, the Trust's suggestions are a conciliatory way to salvage some PR out of this.

If they're lucky Levy might give them an extra pat on the head for that next time they waste a few hours of his time.

 

[scaramanga]

No but he would spit in the face of a kid

Hey, he's a victim. They never do anything wrong, haven't your heard?

 

[DubaiSpur]

Jamie Carragher doesn't strike me as the kind of chap who can tie his own shoelaces, let alone balance the books of a £Bn football club.

He can't (probably had the kitman do it for him), but he's not speaking for himself - it's a perception we've heard plenty of times before, from Ferguson to Mamic.