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Coronavirus

Mikey10 said:
I’d like this a hundred times if I could.



‘…hardly any risk…’ is the key phrase.
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They are at more risk from dying in a road accident or from the flu. Should we ban them from getting in cars or lockdown every winter? Destroy the economy. See spurs go bankrupt.

They have the choice of whether they want to go to a night club or a football match. They can get the vaccine and reduce the risk even further. Or not the choice is theirs.
 
Lilbaz said:
They are at more risk from dying in a road accident or from the flu. Should we ban them from getting in cars or lockdown every winter? Destroy the economy. See spurs go bankrupt.

They have the choice of whether they want to go to a night club or a football match. They can get the vaccine and reduce the risk even further. Or not the choice is theirs.
Click to expand...

Isn't the issue though all about hospitals being able to cope, rather than the number of deaths, vaccinated or not? Nobody wants to see deaths increase but if they do, but the hospitals can still function to near normal level, then lifting restrictions will effectively have been a success.
If the numbers needing hospital treatment increase significantly, and if the number of people in hospital for other reasons testing positive with covid also increases (they still have to be isolated if they can't be sent home, taking up more resources and limiting bed space), then we will almost certainly face further restrictions and there will be valid questions as to whether the full-on lifting of restrictions in one go was the right move. It's more than an individual's choice or risk assessment, as the risk is wider than an individual's own health.
I can understand the logic of opening things up now - better weather = less time spent indoors, school holidays, economic need etc. - but my trust in this government is at such a low ebb that I find it hard to believe any decisions are made on anything other than populism. They cross their fingers, hope for the best, then brush aside any fallout.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Isn't the issue though all about hospitals being able to cope, rather than the number of deaths, vaccinated or not? Nobody wants to see deaths increase but if they do, but the hospitals can still function to near normal level, then lifting restrictions will effectively have been a success.
If the numbers needing hospital treatment increase significantly, and if the number of people in hospital for other reasons testing positive with covid also increases (they still have to be isolated if they can't be sent home, taking up more resources and limiting bed space), then we will almost certainly face further restrictions and there will be valid questions as to whether the full-on lifting of restrictions in one go was the right move. It's more than an individual's choice or risk assessment, as the risk is wider than an individual's own health.
I can understand the logic of opening things up now - better weather = less time spent indoors, school holidays, economic need etc. - but my trust in this government is at such a low ebb that I find it hard to believe any decisions are made on anything other than populism. They cross their fingers, hope for the best, then brush aside any fallout.
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The symptom study has seen symptomatic cases plataeu over the last two weeks. There is a lag between getting symptoms, needing hospital and then dying. So hospitalisations may increase in the next week but should level off. Deaths may rise for the next month.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-cases-plateau-aead-of-freedom-day

Just under 4000 people are in hospital with covid. Down from 40,000 in january.
 
Lilbaz said:
The symptom study has seen symptomatic cases plataeu over the last two weeks. There is a lag between getting symptoms, needing hospital and then dying. So hospitalisations may increase in the next week but should level off. Deaths may rise for the next month.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-cases-plateau-aead-of-freedom-day

Just under 4000 people are in hospital with covid. Down from 40,000 in january.
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Which is promising if things continue in that vein. Although the projections are that cases will rise after restrictions are eased so to some extent that will reflect in hospitalisations. The question mark is over what that extent will be. Hopefully not significant.
My point though was more that it isn't enough to simply take the view that it's down to individual choice of whether to have a vaccine, whether to go to a crowded venue etc., as the cumulative impact of individual choices will be much wider.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Which is promising if things continue in that vein. Although the projections are that cases will rise after restrictions are eased so to some extent that will reflect in hospitalisations. The question mark is over what that extent will be. Hopefully not significant.
My point though was more that it isn't enough to simply take the view that it's down to individual choice of whether to have a vaccine, whether to go to a crowded venue etc., as the cumulative impact of individual choices will be much wider.
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We just had england in the final of the euro, but as that article says cases amongst unvaccinated are falling. Suggesting the virus is running out of unvaccinated to infect. The rise is in the vaccinated and most of these will be asymptomatic.

We have to open up at some point. The summer is when the nhs is under the least pressure. Schools are on holiday. We are outdoors more. Doors and windows are open. More vitamin d. Now is the best time.
 
Lilbaz said:
They are at more risk from dying in a road accident or from the flu. Should we ban them from getting in cars or lockdown every winter? Destroy the economy. See spurs go bankrupt.

They have the choice of whether they want to go to a night club or a football match. They can get the vaccine and reduce the risk even further. Or not the choice is theirs.
Click to expand...

They can’t get the second dose for weeks yet (my eldest, who is 21) got her first jab of AZ in the first week that she could. It’ll be the end of August by the time she gets the second. Until then she’s 30% protected at best.

Glenda's Legs said:
Isn't the issue though all about hospitals being able to cope, rather than the number of deaths, vaccinated or not? Nobody wants to see deaths increase but if they do, but the hospitals can still function to near normal level, then lifting restrictions will effectively have been a success.
If the numbers needing hospital treatment increase significantly, and if the number of people in hospital for other reasons testing positive with covid also increases (they still have to be isolated if they can't be sent home, taking up more resources and limiting bed space), then we will almost certainly face further restrictions and there will be valid questions as to whether the full-on lifting of restrictions in one go was the right move. It's more than an individual's choice or risk assessment, as the risk is wider than an individual's own health.
I can understand the logic of opening things up now - better weather = less time spent indoors, school holidays, economic need etc. - but my trust in this government is at such a low ebb that I find it hard to believe any decisions are made on anything other than populism. They cross their fingers, hope for the best, then brush aside any fallout.
Click to expand...

But…but…FREEDOM!

Lilbaz said:
We just had england in the final of the euro, but as that article says cases amongst unvaccinated are falling. Suggesting the virus is running out of unvaccinated to infect. The rise is in the vaccinated and most of these will be asymptomatic.

We have to open up at some point. The summer is when the nhs is under the least pressure. Schools are on holiday. We are outdoors more. Doors and windows are open. More vitamin d. Now is the best time.
Click to expand...

How will the virus run out of people to infect when those who are vaccinated can still be infected? There’s a long way to go.

Again, I don’t disagree that we should be opening up, but why ditch simple aids to limit the spread such as face masks? And why are we once again not looking at those elsewhere (eg Israel and the Netherlands) who have tried what we are now attempting to do and having to backtrack?
 
Mikey10 said:
They can’t get the second dose for weeks yet (my eldest, who is 21) got her first jab of AZ in the first week that she could. It’ll be the end of August by the time she gets the second. Until then she’s 30% protected at best.



But…but…FREEDOM!



How will the virus run out of people to infect when those who are vaccinated can still be infected? There’s a long way to go.

Again, I don’t disagree that we should be opening up, but why ditch simple aids to limit the spread such as face masks? And why are we once again not looking at those elsewhere (eg Israel and the Netherlands) who have tried what we are now attempting to do and having to backtrack?
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33% protectiin from catching it. Protection against severe disease will be higher.

She's 21. Unless she has underlying health conditions her chance of dying from covid is 250,000 to 1 without a vaccine. With 1 probably 1 in 500,000.

As of june 14th 90% of people in the uk had covid antibodies. The odds are she's already had it.

(Children under 18, 500,000 to 1 to die if catching it. Chances double every 7 years).

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...s-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html
 
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Baleforce said:
which is why people make a massive effort to avoid being struck by lightning

maybe we should have freedom day from lightning, we can all run around a field in an electrical storm with unfolded coat hangers chanting "smite me you fudger"
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Then wear a mask and avoid crowded places. Eat healthily, get vitamin d, excersise, get vaccinated. You can do all those things without bankrupting nightclubs, football clubs, musicians and not allowing people to have guests at their wedding.
 
Lilbaz said:
Then wear a mask and avoid crowded places. Eat healthily, get vitamin d, excersise, get vaccinated. You can do all those things without bankrupting nightclubs, football clubs, musicians and not allowing people to have guests at their wedding.
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I agree, but I think a lot of those things should be mandated, its kinda like the smoking ban, it's not enough to put it all down to personal responsibility, if your own actions can have an adverse effect on the health of others it shouldn't just be down to you.

Events can still function with mask wearing, reasonable social distancing, vaccine requirements and pre attendance testing.
 
Baleforce said:
I agree, but I think a lot of those things should be mandated, its kinda like the smoking ban, it's not enough to put it all down to personal responsibility, if your own actions can have an adverse effect on the health of others it shouldn't just be down to you.

Events can still function with mask wearing, reasonable social distancing, vaccine requirements and pre attendance testing.
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Why did you not want those things in flu season before covid?
 
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