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"Champions of 3rd place, we know what we are"

harr1984 said:
I dont enjoy going against the grain but I will say something when posters overestimate their own team and are dismissive of rivals - its embarrassing.

Yeah compare it to last season, that was a freak season that was our last in our current home - it all tied in perfectly. You honestly think we would have replicated that form again at WHL this season when all the big boys have come back stronger? Er, no. We have lost one game at home this season - to Chelsea. Thrashed a few teams there now,and dropped points against lower teams who defend deep and couldnt break down - sounds like our standard home form to me. As another poster said its our away form that has been our downfall, but if you want to blame it on poor old Wembley then go ahead - Im sure we'd be flying high comfortably in second with another unbeaten home record this season if it wasn't for playing there.....
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We could still have lost to Chelsea at WHL, but I reckon we'd have turned a couple of the draws into wins.

One point that I don't think anyone's made is that we've only played 2 of our 5 toughest opponents away. We got beaten by Chelsea and got hammered Liverpool (for a change). We lost narrowly to Man United at OT, Arsenal put in one of their best performances of the season to beat us, and City...well, the 4-1 result flattered them but they deserved the win.

Say we beat ManU at Wembley then draw against Arsenal and City. That'd be W2 D2 L1 at home against the top 6, which is a decent return. I can also see us getting a win and a draw from Chelsea and Liverpool away, which'd (1) mean a not-disastrous W1 D1 L3 record, and (2) put us in a good position for fourth place.
 
harr1984 said:
Thats a very good point Nayim, but defending is about defending from the front - and they are arguably a better pressing team than us, see the CIty game as a prime example.

Can wont go until the summer, they will have replacements lined up Im sure with all that cash.....
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No-one can press as well as the scousers. It's the park the bus games where that counts for a lot less, and there are A LOT of those games.

And as someone pointed out yesterday the loss of Coutinho could be felt most in those games....he has guile and a little bit of genius and less about being a speedster.

Overall, i agree, i think they are a decent team and obviously capable of winning any game. That said its a coin toss with all 4 of us to finish top 4, i'm just hoping that consistency and stability comes easier to us than the others and that sees us thru.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
We have been worse at the back this season compared to other seasons, yes, which is why we’ve thrown points away and is an area we’ve needed to address. Yet we’re only 3 points behind this lorded Liverpool side!

They’ve scored more and conceded more than the rest of the top 2-5 that we are comparing/fighting with. I find it difficult to understand if you think they don’t need work on their balance? Klopp has even been quoted saying the same!

Lovren came with the same plaudits at Southampton, it’s just 3 seasons of poor performances at Pool seemingly has some people re writing history.
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Im saying that the balance cant be that bad - If it was weighted so heavily towards attacking they wouldn't be in the position they're in. They score more than they concede, and thats the aim of the game so they arent that unbalanced. Another tweek in the defence area and a quality goalkeeper and they really would be in business. Noone is going over the top in their praise, just highlighting they are at the very least as good as us....
 
harr1984 said:
I dont enjoy going against the grain but I will say something when posters overestimate their own team and are dismissive of rivals - its embarrassing.

Yeah compare it to last season, that was a freak season that was our last in our current home - it all tied in perfectly. You honestly think we would have replicated that form again at WHL this season when all the big boys have come back stronger? Er, no. We have lost one game at home this season - to Chelsea. Thrashed a few teams there now,and dropped points against lower teams who defend deep and couldnt break down - sounds like our standard home form to me. As another poster said its our away form that has been our downfall, but if you want to blame it on poor old Wembley then go ahead - Im sure we'd be flying high comfortably in second with another unbeaten home record this season if it wasn't for playing there.....
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No it wasnt a freak season have a word with yourself - it was steady progession from the seasons prior. Top teams go unbeaten at home fairly regularly id have thought and we're a top team (as much as it may pain you to admit) who have steadily improved under the current setup - so why is it so unbelievable. Would we have only dropped 4 points this season? Unlikely as it doesnt leave much room for error, but i can say without question i believe it would have been closer to 4 points dropped than the 11 we are currently on had we not switched grounds.

As previously mentioned you cant seperate home form from away form the way you are trying to as it is your home form that is the platform from which you build - (so the Wembley situation effects the season as a whole)


Honestly didn't think the idea that Wembley may have cost us a few points this season was a controversial one as it seems so blindingly obvious - at the top end of any sport the differences between success and failure can be as little as a difference of .X% - and in a world of marginal gains where things that are seemingly insignificant are focussed on in ever increasing detail to eek out that extra bit of improvement; a stadium move seems monumental by comparison...

Sorry for any embarrasment caused btw when i suggest the team currently 3 points off second is the 2nd best team in the league - didnt realise we had such sensitive souls here
 
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harr1984 said:
Noone is going over the top in their praise, just highlighting they are at the very least as good as us....
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This beginning and ending of that sentence just dont stack up, for me.

Last season? We finished 2 places ahead, 10pts clear of them, scored 8 more and conceeded 16 less.
Year before? 5 places. 10pts again. +6 goals scored and -15 goals conceeded.
Year before? 1place, 2pts, +6 goals and actually +5 conceeded.

You have to go back to 2013/14 before they were better than us. And that year they clearly were. Since then? They have been anything but. Writing us off, and talking them up so heavily, with 15 to play seems like setting oneself up for embarrassment IMO.
 
harr1984 said:
I dont enjoy going against the grain but I will say something when posters overestimate their own team and are dismissive of rivals - its embarrassing.

.....
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This is a very good point and its something which a lot of fans are very good at doing, in the past i have accused some fans of wearing " blue tinted glasses" , of course they always deny doing so :confused:.

I understand why some fans may dislike/hate the likes of Liverpool, Utd, City etc ( and some of the reasons are good ones) but to say they are brick is stretching the truth. They are doing exately the same as fans of those clubs are saying about us and of course most of our fans think that is crap. whats the difference " blue tinted glasses"
 
parklane1 said:
This is a very good point and its something which a lot of fans are very good at doing, in the past i have accused some fans of wearing " blue tinted glasses" , of course they always deny doing so :confused:.

I understand why some fans may dislike/hate the likes of Liverpool, Utd, City etc ( and some of the reasons are good ones) but to say they are brick is stretching the truth. They are doing exately the same as fans of those clubs are saying about us and of course most of our fans think that is crap. whats the difference " blue tinted glasses"
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I think its pretty obvious when someone is just blindly banging home a point, without any real weight, and when someone has a point of view that they have considered (even in cases where I disagree).

And I think it does most people here a disservice to just paint them as having blue tinted glasses and overestimating the team/dismissing others.

We are Spurs fans, its in our DNA to expect the worst and over estimating the side is most definitely not something that comes naturally to us (unlike other sets of fans).

Just as, we are pretty accurate when judging other sides, especially against our own.

I might be slating Liverpool here, but I can articulate why - and its not "because its Liverpool". Just as, if you like, I can articulate how I rate other rivals.

Whether or not you agree/disagree, Id be frankly insulted if you painted that view as "blue tinted".
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Like Arsenal they have shown a steadfast refusal to address their weaknesses. Which is why, broadly, Im not too fearful of them in the short to medium term.

They are a club of great potential, of course, but all the while Klopp (and Wenger) is in the job they will flatter to decieve. Real progress will elude them.
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Not sure. Klopp and Wenger have both previously won things before. I think all the top 6 have elite managers. With the same resources it would be interesting to know how all would fare.

I think Liverpool fell apart last season after Mane got injured. With Salah they are probably better equipped to deal with any major injury to one of their key players. The purchase of Keita and VVD is a serious statement from FSG but selling Coutinho has proven they are no more serious than us with regards to a full on title assault (from board level).
 
diego_maradona said:
Not sure. Klopp and Wenger have both previously won things before. I think all the top 6 have elite managers. With the same resources it would be interesting to know how all would fare.

I think Liverpool fell apart last season after Mane got injured. With Salah they are probably better equipped to deal with any major injury to one of their key players. The purchase of Keita and VVD is a serious statement from FSG but selling Coutinho has proven they are no more serious than us with regards to a full on title assault (from board level).
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Ranieri won the league season before last, should we sack Poch for him?

Wenger hasnt won a title in what? 15 years?

Klopp did very well to win the titles he did, but it was also a few years ago now and also in another country.

All the while, based on the last few seasons here and now, I feel my assessment stands up.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think its pretty obvious when someone is just blindly banging home a point, without any real weight, and when someone has a point of view that they have considered (even in cases where I disagree).

And I think it does most people here a disservice to just paint them as having blue tinted glasses and overestimating the team/dismissing others.

We are Spurs fans, its in our DNA to expect the worst and over estimating the side is most definitely not something that comes naturally to us (unlike other sets of fans).

Just as, we are pretty accurate when judging other sides, especially against our own.

I might be slating Liverpool here, but I can articulate why - and its not "because its Liverpool". Just as, if you like, I can articulate how I rate other rivals.

Whether or not you agree/disagree, Id be frankly insulted if you painted that view as "blue tinted".
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The last thing i want to do mate is insult you ( and to be honest you have given your reasons for dismissing Liverpool better then just slagging them), but if you disagree with the FACT that there are a lot WHO DO look through " blue tinted glasses" when they are talking about rival teams then ( imo) then you are wrong.
 
parklane1 said:
The last thing i want to do mate is insult you ( and to be honest you have given your reasons for dismissing Liverpool better then just slagging them), but if you disagree with the FACT that there are a lot WHO DO look through " blue tinted glasses" when they are talking about rival teams then ( imo) then you are wrong.
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I think it depends on where you are talking about.

Here? I do disagree, I think most posters are pretty reasoned in their opinions. Though of course there are always some who arent.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Ranieri won the league season before last, should we sack Poch for him?
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Come on, I never said anything remotely close to that. Just don't see why we would dismiss Liverpool so easily. They've become hard to beat and score for fun. Apart from recent history there is no suggestion they should fade away. Also they only have United(a), Us(h) and Chelsea(a) left to play out of the top 6.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
See Gazzas response.

Money isnt the point, and if it was they have already spent the Coutinho cash on Keita and VVD, which givent heir other business likely wont amount to much anyway.

The do press frenetically, and tire themselves out. And, all the while, leave gaps you could park a 747 in. I dont think they press anywhere near as well as we do, which is much more controlled, compact, and sustainable.

Its no surprise we win games later on. The way we play, teams run themselves into the ground thanks to our pressing and pressure. We always have energy in the tank to finish strong.
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Tell me about it! There was one passage of play where their left back (Robertson?) went charging after the ball down the left wing, then across the penalty area and ended up giving away a foul all the way out in the right wing area. It did make for good viewing and got the crowd up. I was just thinking how far out of position he was!
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I genuinely dont think Liverpool are that great. I think they are a highly flawed team. They are doing well, I dont deny, but that doesnt change the fact I think they have rather significant weaknesses that the other top teams dont really share.
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You can genuinely think whatever you want, but your personal opinion is not facts! The fact is that Liverpool are ahead of us, so we must have just as many flaws.
 
harr1984 said:
Yeah everyone was going on about Wembley before the season started - I myself was concerned about it. No one talks about it now, wonder why that is....
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Because now we’ve settled in.

But we’ve already dropped more points season to date than we did the entirety of the last campaign.
 
Kandi1977 said:
You can genuinely think whatever you want, but your personal opinion is not facts! The fact is that Liverpool are ahead of us, so we must have just as many flaws.
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Unless it's part of our strategy to come on strong later in the season.

Last year after 20 games Liverpool were ahead of us. If we had this discussion then, people would have said Liverpool were the better side.

There really isn't much at all separating the 4 teams, so for someone to say we top that mini league isn't totally outlandish.

The best thing is that we have 2 of our best performers from last year still to come in.
 
billyiddo said:
No it wasnt a freak season have a word with yourself - it was steady progession from the seasons prior. Top teams go unbeaten at home fairly regularly id have thought and we're a top team (as much as it may pain you to admit) who have steadily improved under the current setup - so why is it so unbelievable. Would we have only dropped 4 points this season? Unlikely as it doesnt leave much room for error, but i can say without question i believe it would have been closer to 4 points dropped than the 11 we are currently on had we not switched grounds.

As previously mentioned you cant seperate home form from away form the way you are trying to as it is your home form that is the platform from which you build - (so the Wembley situation effects the season as a whole)


Honestly didn't think the idea that Wembley may have cost us a few points this season was a controversial one as it seems so blindingly obvious - at the top end of any sport the differences between success and failure can be as little as a difference of .X% - and in a world of marginal gains where things that are seemingly insignificant are focussed on in ever increasing detail to eek out that extra bit of improvement; a stadium move seems monumental by comparison...

Sorry for any embarrasment caused btw when i suggest the team currently 3 points off second is the 2nd best team in the league - didnt realise we had such sensitive souls here
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We played all of your Europe games at Wembley last season, and from there on have gradually got better as we’ve familiarised ourselves with the demands of Wembley much more so than any of the opposition - this is what you get by having home advantage. You believe that we would have had superior results then fine, I don’t believe had we been at WHL we wouldn’t of dropped points to the likes of West Brom like we have done before. Neither of us can prove our point as fact and neither are budging so let’s respectfully disagree. As for the being precious about saying we’re second best team, I’m really not but right now we aren’t and most of England would say the same.Sorry....
 
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