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Benefits

I would scrap child benefit for all those who have a salary. And give the benefit out in the form of personal credit cards you can use in major retailers along with corresponding ID so the system can't be cheated.
 
Leeds Spur said:
We've discussed this before. Good luck to you and as we've said you can't blame people of taking it. But you haven't put in anywhere near enough to think you've 'paid in'. In fact you've probably received around £150k more from the government than you've paid in.

Remember, the state spends £11k for every man, woman and child in the uk. Your wife's pregnancy and birth plus developmental care has cost the state around £10k alone.

Not having a go, just pointing out that you don't 'deserve' anything. In fact very few people do. Not that we all don't put into the pot as such.

On that point, your national insurance is just general taxation. It doesn't go into a fund for Roy's pension and benefits in later life. Although most people do think this way. Another myth.
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Some good points but as you say we won't agree on certain things. I have a chance to stash some cash for my little boys future so I am.

People that sit on theyre arses all day are entitled to it too so I feel no guilt in accepting it.

I'm entitled to £230 per month in housing benefit too but haven't claimed yet. Take home £2k per month not sure how I am but that's what they say. Thinking about it though.
 
Leeds Spur said:
I would scrap child benefit for all those who have a salary. And give the benefit out in the form of personal credit cards you can use in major retailers along with corresponding ID so the system can't be cheated.
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Not one of your brightest ideas dan. People who earn will spend the majority of it on food anyway. It's those who don't work who spunk it up the wall surely?
 
Leeds Spur said:
I would scrap child benefit for all those who have a salary. And give the benefit out in the form of personal credit cards you can use in major retailers along with corresponding ID so the system can't be cheated.
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In this case it would pay not to work, it needs to gradually decrease as you earn. For example, for every £1 you earn after tax, you lose 10p Child Benefit. Unfortunately with so many different benefits it gets complicated quickly

I agree with the card idea, as long as it is regulated to it can only be used on healthy foods
 
Richie said:
In this case it would pay not to work, it needs to gradually decrease as you earn. For example, for every £1 you earn after tax, you lose 10p Child Benefit. Unfortunately with so many different benefits it gets complicated quickly

I agree with the card idea, as long as it is regulated to it can only be used on healthy foods
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Child benefit it £960 a year. People wouldn't work in order to get that?

Nah.
 
Roy1983 said:
Some good points but as you say we won't agree on certain things. I have a chance to stash some cash for my little boys future so I am.

People that sit on theyre arses all day are entitled to it too so I feel no guilt in accepting it.

I'm entitled to £230 per month in housing benefit too but haven't claimed yet. Take home £2k per month not sure how I am but that's what they say. Thinking about it though.
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Take it. You can't get it in the future when you don't qualify. I have no issue with working families taking money offered to them, I just think they shouldn't. Getting these benefits in the first place. for the record I do the same with my child benefit and match the contribution. Little one will have £60-70k when she's 18 to pay for a business start up, deposit or education.
 
Leeds Spur said:
Take it. You can't get it in the future when you don't qualify. I have no issue with working families taking money offered to them, I just think they shouldn't. Getting these benefits in the first place. for the record I do the same with my child benefit and match the contribution. Little one will have £60-70k when she's 18 to pay for a business start up, deposit or education.
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Wife took it in the end.
 
Leeds Spur said:
We've discussed this before. Good luck to you and as we've said you can't blame people of taking it. But you haven't put in anywhere near enough to think you've 'paid in'. In fact you've probably received around £150k more from the government than you've paid in.

Remember, the state spends £11k for every man, woman and child in the uk. Your wife's pregnancy and birth plus developmental care has cost the state around £10k alone.

Not having a go, just pointing out that you don't 'deserve' anything. In fact very few people do. Not that we all don't put into the pot as such.

On that point, your national insurance is just general taxation. It doesn't go into a fund for Roy's pension and benefits in later life. Although most people do think this way. Another myth.
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Where is this £11,000 from then? Is that just all gov't spending divided by the population? If so then thats not a very accurate way of looking at things for a number of reasons as I'm sure you're aware e.g. billions given away in foreign aid
 
1) food vouchers, not cash
2) a cap on total benefits per human
3) bus pass so you can get to interviews etc
4) database of skills and jobs auto-matched and auto-applied for
5) extermination after 5 years of non-working
 
P.D. said:
Where is this £11,000 from then? Is that just all gov't spending divided by the population? If so then thats not a very accurate way of looking at things for a number of reasons as I'm sure you're aware e.g. billions given away in foreign aid
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Foreign aid budget is around 12 billion a year. We spend around 730 billion a year. Yep. Pretty accurate sadly.
 
Leeds Spur said:
That's fundamentally my point. Don't have kids if you ant afford them and if you're a fit man or working age you work, end of. And there are jobs for everyone. Just not the jobs people want. Tough brick.

In the context of tax evasion it shows the choice. What do you want? Sole traders and the rich getting away with it or everyone paying their way and keeping universal benefits?
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An ideal if ever I read one. There are many, many MANY people I PERSONALLY think should not have children, and no simply because they cannot financially afford to have them, but the FACTS are that these people DO have children, and MANY children are born into situations where theoretically no child should EVER have been conceived, let alone born. So what then? It's not just about the parents at that point, it's about the children unwittingly involved.

As for the second bit I highlighted, plays a bit into the first in as much as the KEY to MOST things is having a STRONG basic education system (something I know you believe strongly in too incidentally by reading your posts mate)...otherwise that second portion (jobs people don't want) will become ALL there is for the majority who go through an increasingly weakened public education system...these also become the people who have kids when they shouldn't per se...

The biggest benefit we could do ourselves, is make sure education systems remain supported at state level. That's everywhere in the west.

To briefly touch your other point about tax evasion, there will soon be a discontent of such proportions that people will wonder why they should pay their taxes when these mega corps don't...it could get a bit medieval...

Finally, with regards to benefits, I always maintained that jobless benefits should, after 6 months, continue for a further 12 BUT ONLY on the condition that in exchange for your benefits, you attend a work-placement/apprenticeship somewhere which (on completion of a successful further 12 months) will fat-track you into a full-time job in the area you've placed in.
 
Leeds Spur said:
I'm not having the emotional blackmail angle.

Just take the kids into care and be done with it. Seperating these kids from their qunt parents will probably give them a decent shot in life.
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You need to see a film, co-written and directed by Samantha Morton and based on her experiences in care. It's called "The Unloved"...how she got through it is a miracle. IF you get around to seeing the film (I strongly recommend you do, it's on DVD and all that) and are interested, PM me and I'll send you a brilliant feature on Morton and the subject behind the film (her childhood in care)...
 
thfcsteff said:
You need to see a film, co-written and directed by Samantha Morton and based on her experiences in care. It's called "The Unloved"...how she got through it is a miracle. IF you get around to seeing the film (I strongly recommend you do, it's on DVD and all that) and are interested, PM me and I'll send you a brilliant feature on Morton and the subject behind the film (her childhood in care)...
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I think you do a massive disservice to modern care homes and adopted children and foster parents.

There is absolutely no doubt that a life in care would be preferable for many of these children born into these hard core disfunctional families.

Abuse comes in many forms and I maintain, care would be preferable to staying with the scum parents....epecially for life chances.
 
thfcsteff said:
He didn't want sympathy.
And you don't know the full set of circumstances. Brave is the man who makes a statement like you did above...brave or foolish...
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He's a student studying AAT who can't get a job, did I miss sommat? You clearly haven't read the thread so I'd pipe down before you wade in fella.

Nope......done many many brick jobs myself....the points remains, there might not be paid accounts jobs for people, but there are plenty of jobs out there, just not the jobs we all might dream of doing.

And that my friend is tough titty.
 
thfcsteff said:
An ideal if ever I read one. There are many, many MANY people I PERSONALLY think should not have children, and no simply because they cannot financially afford to have them, but the FACTS are that these people DO have children, and MANY children are born into situations where theoretically no child should EVER have been conceived, let alone born. So what then? It's not just about the parents at that point, it's about the children unwittingly involved.

As for the second bit I highlighted, plays a bit into the first in as much as the KEY to MOST things is having a STRONG basic education system (something I know you believe strongly in too incidentally by reading your posts mate)...otherwise that second portion (jobs people don't want) will become ALL there is for the majority who go through an increasingly weakened public education system...these also become the people who have kids when they shouldn't per se...

The biggest benefit we could do ourselves, is make sure education systems remain supported at state level. That's everywhere in the west.

To briefly touch your other point about tax evasion, there will soon be a discontent of such proportions that people will wonder why they should pay their taxes when these mega corps don't...it could get a bit medieval...

Finally, with regards to benefits, I always maintained that jobless benefits should, after 6 months, continue for a further 12 BUT ONLY on the condition that in exchange for your benefits, you attend a work-placement/apprenticeship somewhere which (on completion of a successful further 12 months) will fat-track you into a full-time job in the area you've placed in.
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I don't think anyone is advocating the abolision of state education?

I'm a very strong advocate of it.
 
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