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Antonin Kinsky

braineclipse said:
Anyway, back to Kinsky.

Straight in for the Liverpool game is the expectation? Baptism of fire, play Ange ball against one of the best teams around, do some step overs and hopefully stop some shots?
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If he has his work permit in time.

Austin did well at corners, but wasn't tested a huge amount, I would worry if he starts Vs Liverpool, but Kinsky is an unknown quantity really. Any idea if Forster will be back?
 
Finney Is Back said:
He played some games and wasn’t at the races.

I’m not sure those who didn’t play football understand the massive difference between age group and men’s football. As a young player I played academy and reserve football at what is now PL level and coped fine, even coped well I’d say, I then went and played semi pro football, thought I’d be able to run the show and even at that low level it was so incredibly different and so much more difficult, the pace and physicality so much more intense, so many more decisions you have to take, in much less time, have to be the right ones or you get punished, even get your body shape wrong receiving the ball and you’ll get clattered in a ‘fair’ tackle. It took me many games to adjust, you’re just used to having more time, it is ingrained in you and takes a while to kind of train out of your system. At first you compensate by rushing and make bad decisions and touches but gradually you learn to be quicker but not to rush, be ready to receive the ball earlier, anticipate better, know where you’re probably going to go/pass to before you receive the ball, etc.

Equally I always laugh to myself when people cream themselves over a young player doing well in a pre-season game and say the player needs to be in the first team, it’s just not a decent barometer at all. Semi pro football is a big step up from age group football, league 2 a big step up from that, there is the same step up at each level. It’s not a mystery why so few academy players fail to make a decent living playing football.
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I do like the appreciation that a player can look good at the highest level but not so good at a lower level and vice versa.

I guess some would have never known Harry would be the player he became from his loan performances.

You just have to hope that someone at the club does have these translation skills. My other ask is no different than any new product. You need to fail fast, or succeed. Spurs have a history failing slowly with their youngsters. I think the tide is turning on that one and the loan system is helping.
 
Chrissivad said:
If he has his work permit in time.

Austin did well at corners, but wasn't tested a huge amount, I would worry if he starts Vs Liverpool, but Kinsky is an unknown quantity really. Any idea if Forster will be back?
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No idea and no idea how long the work permit thing should take.

Hope it's Kinsky, just to see him play.
 
Finney Is Back said:
He played some games and wasn’t at the races.

I’m not sure those who didn’t play football understand the massive difference between age group and men’s football. As a young player I played academy and reserve football at what is now PL level and coped fine, even coped well I’d say, I then went and played semi pro football, thought I’d be able to run the show and even at that low level it was so incredibly different and so much more difficult, the pace and physicality so much more intense, so many more decisions you have to take, in much less time, have to be the right ones or you get punished, even get your body shape wrong receiving the ball and you’ll get clattered in a ‘fair’ tackle. It took me many games to adjust, you’re just used to having more time, it is ingrained in you and takes a while to kind of train out of your system. At first you compensate by rushing and make bad decisions and touches but gradually you learn to be quicker but not to rush, be ready to receive the ball earlier, anticipate better, know where you’re probably going to go/pass to before you receive the ball, etc.

Equally I always laugh to myself when people cream themselves over a young player doing well in a pre-season game and say the player needs to be in the first team, it’s just not a decent barometer at all. Semi pro football is a big step up from age group football, league 2 a big step up from that, there is the same step up at each level. It’s not a mystery why so few academy players fail to make a decent living playing football.
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Top post mate 👏
 
Finney Is Back said:
He played some games and wasn’t at the races.

I’m not sure those who didn’t play football understand the massive difference between age group and men’s football. As a young player I played academy and reserve football at what is now PL level and coped fine, even coped well I’d say, I then went and played semi pro football, thought I’d be able to run the show and even at that low level it was so incredibly different and so much more difficult, the pace and physicality so much more intense, so many more decisions you have to take, in much less time, have to be the right ones or you get punished, even get your body shape wrong receiving the ball and you’ll get clattered in a ‘fair’ tackle. It took me many games to adjust, you’re just used to having more time, it is ingrained in you and takes a while to kind of train out of your system. At first you compensate by rushing and make bad decisions and touches but gradually you learn to be quicker but not to rush, be ready to receive the ball earlier, anticipate better, know where you’re probably going to go/pass to before you receive the ball, etc.

Equally I always laugh to myself when people cream themselves over a young player doing well in a pre-season game and say the player needs to be in the first team, it’s just not a decent barometer at all. Semi pro football is a big step up from age group football, league 2 a big step up from that, there is the same step up at each level. It’s not a mystery why so few academy players fail to make a decent living playing football.
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All of that is correct and that's why the biggest thing for me (all opinions) is ensuring that players at some point in that development stages, get game time, nothing, nothing helps a player make that transition more than actual, competitive game time.

- Kinsky has 102 professional games at 21, Austin has 20 at 25, it's why the manager will be probably be willing to risk dropping Kinsky in the deep end over Austin who has trained in the system for years.
- Archie Gray had 52 appearances at 17, Bergvall 47 at 17, for context, the first season Winks had more than 47 appearances was last year at 27 for Leicester
- Vuskovic will probably 60+ games under his belt by time he comes to us
 
Muttley said:
Ange hasn't been the best judge either though. He has been left with egg on his face
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How do you know?
Muttley said:
when those players he's ignored have got their chance and proven their value.
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What if they had been brought in early and bombed? That they have come in and done well is not credit to the manager? I don’t recall Spence having a roaring career under Conte, do you?
Ange has definitely made this squad smaller than it needs to be.

Nonsense. He’s using two 18 year olds in every game atm.
 
Am I the only that doesn't think Wednesday is an option?!
If Forster is back, I think it'll be Forster and Austin.
If not, maybe he'll be on the bench with Austin starting. (Or maybe Kelleher?!)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just don't see him going straight in and that he's more of a long term bet as a no.2 and competition for Vic.
 
I understand our dear leader is a long-time admirer of his great-uncle, who had bit of a reputation for being shy of crosses.


kinsky.jpg
 
monkeybarry said:
Am I the only that doesn't think Wednesday is an option?!
If Forster is back, I think it'll be Forster and Austin.
If not, maybe he'll be on the bench with Austin starting. (Or maybe Kelleher?!)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just don't see him going straight in and that he's more of a long term bet as a no.2 and competition for Vic.
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I’ve always thought Wednesday is too soon, but expect him to start v Tamworth on the weekend. Austin will start v Liverpool I think.
 
monkeybarry said:
Am I the only that doesn't think Wednesday is an option?!
If Forster is back, I think it'll be Forster and Austin.
If not, maybe he'll be on the bench with Austin starting. (Or maybe Kelleher?!)

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just don't see him going straight in and that he's more of a long term bet as a no.2 and competition for Vic.
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I guess the question is if the difference in quality is enough to make up for the lack of time to settle in.

I don't think it's out of the question to start him, but accept that it would come with some risk. But also some risk with Forster or Austin.
 
braineclipse said:
I guess the question is if the difference in quality is enough to make up for the lack of time to settle in.

I don't think it's out of the question to start him, but accept that it would come with some risk. But also some risk with Forster or Austin.
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We didn't just buy Thibaut Courtois. We bought a 21 year old rookie playing in a Czech league that has potential. I had a look on Whoscored and his EL match ratings this season have been between 5.6 and 6.8, with the average at 6.2. Poor old Bissouma and Bentancur get bashed for having an average in the PL of 6.7.

In my mind, there is no justification to throw him straight in. He needs to earn his place and operate in a meritocracy.
 
Muttley said:
We didn't just buy Thibaut Courtois. We bought a 21 year old rookie playing in a Czech league that has potential. I had a look on Whoscored and his EL match ratings this season have been between 5.6 and 6.8, with the average at 6.2. Poor old Bissouma and Bentancur get bashed for having an average in the PL of 6.7.

In my mind, there is no justification to throw him straight in. He needs to earn his place and operate in a meritocracy.
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We, the fans, are setting him up to fail before he even gets on the pitch.
I see he's being touted as the next Petr cech by the bbc, which isn't going to help.
Need to tune this rubbish out.
 
Muttley said:
We didn't just buy Thibaut Courtois. We bought a 21 year old rookie playing in a Czech league that has potential. I had a look on Whoscored and his EL match ratings this season have been between 5.6 and 6.8, with the average at 6.2. Poor old Bissouma and Bentancur get bashed for having an average in the PL of 6.7.

In my mind, there is no justification to throw him straight in. He needs to earn his place and operate in a meritocracy.
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I don't know anywhere near enough about him to know what the right decision is. I don't think whoscored ratings tell us that much either personally.

Ange and the coaches will know a lot more. I'll be happy with whatever they go for including throwing him straight in.
 
braineclipse said:
I don't know anywhere near enough about him to know what the right decision is. I don't think whoscored ratings tell us that much either personally.

Ange and the coaches will know a lot more. I'll be happy with whatever they go for including throwing him straight in.
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As rating systems go, I think WhoScored is one of the best based on the amount of things they assess per player and how many years they've been smoothing their algorithms. It's not like the press who just give a player an 8 for a goal and 5 for making a mistake. Their ratings really are tosh.

I just think Ange will throw Kinsky at Rob Burch and then integrate him into the team training sessions before he'll get anywhere near the team. Both Ange and Rob will take their time to assess his readiness. Obviously, one key deadline is when that UEFA squad needs naming, if we get through.
 
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