thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Given that we have not won one since 2008, for the sake of not blowing up something this club committed to 18 months ago, and which with the current model will take some time, I'll take my chances and stick.
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Ange in or out?
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
Given that we have not won one since 2008, for the sake of not blowing up something this club committed to 18 months ago, and which with the current model will take some time, I'll take my chances and stick.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
Are you forgetting about the airshot Palmer inexplicably missed in the first half that 9/10 times he would bury? Or the Jackson one on one where Dragusin did well to recover from?
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
Fair enough. I’m still just about Ange in but I honestly don’t see him turning things around nor do I think we will ever be higher than 5th at the end of the season with him in charge. The fact that he sort of shrugged his shoulders at the end today and said “well the second half was a ding dong mate”, yeah because that’s how you set the team up mate. Learn how to manage games and come up with something other than let’s just try and score another goal.
To be fair any manager can look clueless with key players out. You just need to look at Pep and earlier Arteta for examples. The key question is has he shown enough to earn more time and whether the injuries are just down to bad luck or something else and not his play style. I am not convinced by him and it's still not too late into the season to find someone better to salvage the season so by all means Munn or whoever should look into that option.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
Unless there is a clearly better manager I agree and think we have to stick. The downward trend has been here for a while, and hopefully Ange has people to whom he can talk that can help him evolve and improve. If he doesn't he will be replaced as soon as there is a decent candidate. He cannot keep training and playing the way that he has. and the club requirement policy is one for the long term.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
I've never been one to call for a manager's head; I'll usually advocate for patience, but this guy doesn't want to learn and I can see this turning into another Christian Gross situation, only this time around we won't have a Klinsmann to take control on the pitch at Selhurst. He's got to go for me, it's just a matter of when and what state we'll have left ourselves in by the time the trigger gets pulled.
NYSpur
Hossam Ghaly
I have moved into the out camp as I just cannot get passed the absence of a structure to our play to prevent all of our opponents from getting excellent chances. One can only conclude that Ange believes that we can outscore our opponents because we almost always concede. As I noted elsewhere, if you almost always have to score 2 goals to win, the chances of sustained success at this level is remote. Today's game was a good example of even though Chelsea more or less gave us a 2 goal start, there was no sign that we are capable of presenting a solid defense and then picking the opponent off on the counter. I cannot accept that an elite coach should refuse to assess his options before and during a game and be prepared to modify them when warranted. "It's who we are" was great bravado after we had been unbeaten in 10 games last season. Now it just appears foolhardy.
Yes, I fully accept that we are currently in an unfortunate situation with injuries. But I do not think that changes the trend over the 43 games since we lost to Chelsea last year. If this is the way forward, we should be seeing progress. But what I see is a team that is as likely to be flat, uninspiring and easily beaten as it is to be dominant. And that is the case whoever we are playing and whoever Ange puts out. If it is the players, then it must be the whole squad because we have been both good and bad whatever the personnel. It just appears that the fundamental problem is how Ange has us playing. I wish it was not the case, but I do not think he is the "one" and that giving him time is all that is needed. Happy to be proved wrong, and I will be delighted if he and the players can respond in the next few games. I just can't see it given the pressure that is now on all and the players we have available.
Yes, I fully accept that we are currently in an unfortunate situation with injuries. But I do not think that changes the trend over the 43 games since we lost to Chelsea last year. If this is the way forward, we should be seeing progress. But what I see is a team that is as likely to be flat, uninspiring and easily beaten as it is to be dominant. And that is the case whoever we are playing and whoever Ange puts out. If it is the players, then it must be the whole squad because we have been both good and bad whatever the personnel. It just appears that the fundamental problem is how Ange has us playing. I wish it was not the case, but I do not think he is the "one" and that giving him time is all that is needed. Happy to be proved wrong, and I will be delighted if he and the players can respond in the next few games. I just can't see it given the pressure that is now on all and the players we have available.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
I agree with lots of this. Apart from a few minor tweaks Ange does not seem to a have plans based on game state. I don’t think we should be as full out attack at 2-0 as we are at 1-0. But Ange seems to think we should. We saw this clearly at Brighton. You don’t need to be an elite manager to know that a team is going to come at you at that point.I have moved into the out camp as I just cannot get passed the absence of a structure to our play to prevent all of our opponents from getting excellent chances. One can only conclude that Ange believes that we can outscore our opponents because we almost always concede. As I noted elsewhere, if you almost always have to score 2 goals to win, the chances of sustained success at this level is remote. Today's game was a good example of even though Chelsea more or less gave us a 2 goal start, there was no sign that we are capable of presenting a solid defense and then picking the opponent off on the counter. I cannot accept that an elite coach should refuse to assess his options before and during a game and be prepared to modify them when warranted. "It's who we are" was great bravado after we had been unbeaten in 10 games last season. Now it just appears foolhardy.
Yes, I fully accept that we are currently in an unfortunate situation with injuries. But I do not think that changes the trend over the 43 games since we lost to Chelsea last year. If this is the way forward, we should be seeing progress. But what I see is a team that is as likely to be flat, uninspiring and easily beaten as it is to be dominant. And that is the case whoever we are playing and whoever Ange puts out. If it is the players, then it must be the whole squad because we have been both good and bad whatever the personnel. It just appears that the fundamental problem is how Ange has us playing. I wish it was not the case, but I do not think he is the "one" and that giving him time is all that is needed. Happy to be proved wrong, and I will be delighted if he and the players can respond in the next few games. I just can't see it given the pressure that is now on all and the players we have available.
And we have enough of a sample size to see he hasn’t been learning and adapting.
Oh well, here we (possibly) go again..
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I maintain that at Brighton, what cost us was a total switch-off and assumption we'd won the game.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I have moved into the out camp as I just cannot get passed the absence of a structure to our play to prevent all of our opponents from getting excellent chances. One can only conclude that Ange believes that we can outscore our opponents because we almost always concede. As I noted elsewhere, if you almost always have to score 2 goals to win, the chances of sustained success at this level is remote. Today's game was a good example of even though Chelsea more or less gave us a 2 goal start, there was no sign that we are capable of presenting a solid defense and then picking the opponent off on the counter. I cannot accept that an elite coach should refuse to assess his options before and during a game and be prepared to modify them when warranted. "It's who we are" was great bravado after we had been unbeaten in 10 games last season. Now it just appears foolhardy.
Yes, I fully accept that we are currently in an unfortunate situation with injuries. But I do not think that changes the trend over the 43 games since we lost to Chelsea last year. If this is the way forward, we should be seeing progress. But what I see is a team that is as likely to be flat, uninspiring and easily beaten as it is to be dominant. And that is the case whoever we are playing and whoever Ange puts out. If it is the players, then it must be the whole squad because we have been both good and bad whatever the personnel. It just appears that the fundamental problem is how Ange has us playing. I wish it was not the case, but I do not think he is the "one" and that giving him time is all that is needed. Happy to be proved wrong, and I will be delighted if he and the players can respond in the next few games. I just can't see it given the pressure that is now on all and the players we have available.
They won't.
He needs elite upgrades in couple of positions, he needs the youths purchased this year to have this season to develop (Gray and Bergvall will be so much stronger next season) and he needs the injuries to level out. This is going to take another half a season to a season. I think we could do well in a cup (still in three of them as of now). I do not think we will make CL next season. But I think the platform of talent could well blossom.
The single biggest issue will be if the players stop believing. As of now, I am not seeing that.
afsoc4life
Dean Richards
You need high quality eggs to make a world class omelette.
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
And look where that is getting us
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
Yeah and not a naive individual to make them.
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
If the club were serious in supporting Ange with immediate success they would signed more proven first team players. When you spend all this money on teenagers you need more time.
This is the time to stick with him.
This is the time to stick with him.
Can we have a 3rd option of out now, send him to get experience at some real teams with a bit less pressure and then have him back?
I don't think Ange is the issue, I think him learning how to manage a real football club on the job is.
I don't think Ange is the issue, I think him learning how to manage a real football club on the job is.
Mrs Vert
Terry Fenwick
I don't know why Ange waits til we are losing a match to make subs at 80min. When we are on the ropes he is rarely proactive.
Ref pen I don't think so. So we save it for chels. Brilliant.
Now I think this window we go all out and spend on ready made players in positions we we need and I know Jan is tough but at least get 2. I don't want to see another teen in this or a summer window.
But I'm gonna take a guess and say we won't do what pool or arsenal did with regards to getting a Rice, a VD or Alison or whoever you wanna compare it to
Mrs Vert
Terry Fenwick
Why can't we get a balance purchases of experience and young?
And ange probably won't get time if we get out knocked out cups and still in bottom half. Cos everyone injured and he don't like what we got left
Mikey10
Pedro Mendes
Agreed. He’s a goner and we’re now just counting down the days to when.
Muttley
Richard Gough
I'd like to see the stats of subs used compared to whether we win, lose or draw games. I think there is a pattern where winning means more subs, whereas losing means less subs. You're also implying that subs are late in games. I've always questioned Ange with regards to subs and whether he trusts his next 5 or 6 players.