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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 84 74.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 29 25.7%
  • Total voters
    113
Jurgen the German said:
I’d like him to do better yes. I want him to succeed but I’m not going to pat him on the back when we concede 6 goals just days after conceding 3 and 4 in recent games. Especially when he doesn’t seem to care about the amount of goals we concede he just thinks we can outscore everyone.
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How can you 'support' someone, whilst totally undermining him? He cares about winning, has a formula for it. We knew the plan. You either back it or you don't. You aren't backing it, but hedging your bets. Ange needs unconditional support and unity, until the powers that be remove him.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Every fan wants him to do well, even those who call him a fat Aussie c€$t
But that’s not because they like what Ange brings or says. It’s a case it’s what they want from the club, which is ultimately right
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Can you imagine being in a relationship with someone who constantly nags you. Tells you you're doing everything wrong. But also wants you to stay. It is totally undermining and already doomed because of the negativity.
 
He said this after Thursday's game 'For us, I don't think we could be the team we are, if we didn't maintain our conviction around our beliefs.'

'The team we are' = tenth in the Prem or whatever it was. This is the kind of quote you get from Pep or Klopp or someone. Not the manager of a team in mid midtable. Seems almost delusional.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Football is a lot of 'don't knows'...but at the highest professional levels work is paid handsomely to reduce/mitigate as many "don't knows" as possible...you can fill in the rest...
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Life is full of don't knows, sometimes you go round and round in circles so fixated on a problem that if you would only step back you could see it properly.
That for me is the problem this club suffers from.
 
SpurMeUp said:
How can you 'support' someone, whilst totally undermining him? He cares about winning, has a formula for it. We knew the plan. You either back it or you don't. You aren't backing it, but hedging your bets. Ange needs unconditional support and unity, until the powers that be remove him.
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Does he have a formula for winning in the PL? We are currently 11th in the table. Not sure what you are being so absolutist about it. I can support the manager but want him to do better and make reasonable adjustments. Unconditional support doesn’t mean patting them on the back when they repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over. Let me ask you a question, do you think Ange is doing enough to protect the back four and to stop us conceding so many goals?
 
Jurgen the German said:
The result might be the same but we will never know until he tries it. Meanwhile, he keeps playing the same way and getting similar outcomes.
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What if playing a different way or hiring a new manager gets worse results for next 18 month.

I don't know what will happen, I'm for sticking with ange because to be honest I do not see anybody that is being suggested being any better, they will be different, not convinced better.

Bring in iriola, if we are not looking good after 12 months I can guarantee not only will he be under pressure but a good many of advocating for him just now will be calling for his and blaming levy because it was a cheap option.
 
glasgowspur said:
What if playing a different way or hiring a new manager gets worse results for next 18 month.

I don't know what will happen, I'm for sticking with ange because to be honest I do not see anybody that is being suggested being any better, they will be different, not convinced better.

Bring in iriola, if we are not looking good after 12 months I can guarantee not only will he be under pressure but a good many of advocating for him just now will be calling for his and blaming levy because it was a cheap option.
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I’d like to see him try it just once as a starting point, not necessarily for 18 months. Are you honestly saying he should not alter/tweak things defensively? No one is asking to him switch to 5 at the back and play a false 9, just some subtle changes like not sending the full backs forward at every opportunity and have more protection from the midfield to the CB’s would be a start.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I’d like to see him try it just once as a starting point, not necessarily for 18 months. Are you honestly saying he should not alter/tweak things defensively? No one is asking to him switch to 5 at the back and play a false 9, just some subtle changes like not sending the full backs forward at every opportunity and have more protection from the midfield to the CB’s would be a start.
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No I'm not saying he shouldn't tweak, I don't even have an issue with people saying he should, it's that these discussions get to a point where people become entrenched in their opinions and these opinions become "fact".
Personally yesterday I would played spence in sons position, Udogie in at left back, kulu in the middle with Johnson out on the right and sent maddison to ally pally to watch the darts.
Their right is their strongest attacking side so bolster it bit, but taa is their weakest defender we press him and Salah has to help out.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Does he have a formula for winning in the PL? We are currently 11th in the table. Not sure what you are being so absolutist about it. I can support the manager but want him to do better and make reasonable adjustments. Unconditional support doesn’t mean patting them on the back when they repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over. Let me ask you a question, do you think Ange is doing enough to protect the back four and to stop us conceding so many goals?
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I’m not reactionary. I look at the performances and the intelligence of the manager. But I am experienced running organisations. I have an understanding about personnel and management outside sport. I’ve put in place managers and rejuvenated businesses myself and via hiring managers. First and foremost, I ask whether the individual has the acumen, the experience and know how and the determination. Postecoglou is astute, experienced and determined. He might take a bit more time to fix things but he does (the protection of the keeper for example, with us now both protecting our own whilst harassing the opposition keeper. It took us a few months but it’s baked in now). And that is the point: it’s not simple to get 11 men or women coordinating on a pitch, so Postecoglou tries to stick to a plan. Which I believe is admirable. And highly recommended. The danger is he listens to fans. You must have a strong vision and unwavering commitment. If you do what everyone else is doing you’ll end up in the pack. And of course if it was easy to achieve everyone would do it.

Postecoglou is perfectly capable of screening the defenders. Or asking FBs to be cautious. In fact we saw just this when at 0-0 against pool, they were more cautious going forward. Once behind we throw caution to the wind which got us back to 1-2.

The greater issue is freshness to play this way. And pool were fresher and more aggressive. They won the pressing battle when we were trying to hold a little deeper initially.

Can this kind of system work? City have been the best side in Europe playing a similar way. Though they tended to retain possession where we look to break quickly. Know when to hold and when to go for the throat is key, and we’re not quite there with this aspect. Too often we hand back possession with a fast counter breaking down. Pool are exceptional at this. They break quickly and tend to keep the ball with movement and accurate passing. We are work in progresss still.

But as for backing mavericks - if they show you their ability, dedication and track record - absolutely get behind them. See what is possible.
 
glasgowspur said:
Life is full of don't knows, sometimes you go round and round in circles so fixated on a problem that if you would only step back you could see it properly.
That for me is the problem this club suffers from.
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Sorry, i'm not sure i get what you mean here: can you elaborate on this please?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Can you imagine being in a relationship with someone who constantly nags you. Tells you you're doing everything wrong. But also wants you to stay. It is totally undermining and already doomed because of the negativity.
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It's not a good comparison though, is it? I'm critical and doubtful of Ange, but he sure as fudge doesn't know - why would he? I would support the team in the stands and never write anything negative directly to any of them on social media - beyond that, who cares what I mean and express on something like GG? Certainly not Ange.

I also want Ange to succeeded, because I want the club to succeed, but to elevate the man beyond criticism just sounds weird to me. As Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys once said when being called unpatriotic - "love it enough to criticise it".
 
glorygloryeze said:
Sorry, i'm not sure i get what you mean here: can you elaborate on this please?
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We, as in the club, are constantly looking for a solution from a very narrow, in fact I'd say increasingly narrow, point of view.
We started off a long time ago with a very broad range of ideas, but our focus has become narrower and narrower.
Every idea that doesn't quite work is jettisoned, until the next one doesn't work and eventually we end up back where we started.
A step back to reappraise a more wider range of solutions Imv is what we need.
 
Daisuk said:
It's not a good comparison though, is it? I'm critical and doubtful of Ange, but he sure as fudge doesn't know - why would he? I would support the team in the stands and never write anything negative directly to any of them on social media - beyond that, who cares what I mean and express on something like GG? Certainly not Ange.

I also want Ange to succeeded, because I want the club to succeed, but to elevate the man beyond criticism just sounds weird to me. As Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys once said when being called unpatriotic - "love it enough to criticise it".
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Ange is probably doomed because of the tanker of negativity. The narratives build, the journalists take part, pressure goes up and any freedom to develop us, make mistakes, learn and discover, is lost. He's ugly enough not to care (at least superficially but everyone does care, and of course he knows) and hopefully he can pull rabbits out of hats and get us winning. That is the only thing that can drain the swamp of negativity. But no easy task with the players available. He's been doing a sterling job though, we are still competitive despite all the missing players and an 18 year old CB. Honestly, he's a valid coach and deserves more support. Any other team they would be banging on about how impressive we're playing with half the side out.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Since when did it have to be such a binary comparison between losing 3-6 and losing 0-3?
How many times in the PL era have we lost by 3 goals at home vs Liverpool FFS??

How about comparing a tight 1-2 loss or even a 1-1 draw to a 3-6 loss???
The lengths people seem to go to deflect, goodness me...
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I don't understand it

Either love Ange and high scoring we might win football or you're a dinosaur who worships Jose and wants every game to be a 1-0 win where we score from a long throw in.

What I'm and I think others are talking about is management and coaching, in game and during the week. Prepare for the opposition their strengths and weaknesses, our strengths and weaknesses and adapt your plan accordingly. Don't stand there with your hands in your pockets shaking your head like you're playing Football Manager and the computer is cheating.

Maybe hire experienced coaches that you've worked with or have a standing in the game to promote your ideas more clearly. When 2-1 down just before half time, manage the situation, get in a regroup. All this stuff I don't see as a big ask. Stop asking your keeper who can't pass to do it, if your determined to play that way, then stick in a kid who can and go balls out. You can't claim to be courageous then have Son and Maddison stinking out the place weekly.

What I don't like is that he has adjusted when forced and we've been better for it. Then the next game he'll just go back to what he deems the 'only way'. When Son was out Udogie was overlapping Werner for example.

What I liked about Jose and Conte is the both after a time looked at what they had and adjusted to it. They wasn't happy but managed what the had in front of them. Pragmatism doesn't have to equal boring, it's his job.

Saying we scored 3 when we've just left in 6 proves what? We scored 4 and let in 3 in the last game. Liverpool could have scored 20.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Ange is probably doomed because of the tanker of negativity. The narratives build, the journalists take part, pressure goes up and any freedom to develop us, make mistakes, learn and discover, is lost. He's ugly enough not to care (at least superficially but everyone does care, and of course he knows) and hopefully he can pull rabbits out of hats and get us winning. That is the only thing that can drain the swamp of negativity. But no easy task with the players available. He's been doing a sterling job though, we are still competitive despite all the missing players and an 18 year old CB. Honestly, he's a valid coach and deserves more support. Any other team they would be banging on about how impressive we're playing with half the side out.
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As far as the public narrative goes, that's 100% media driven, without them there wouldn't be a narrative. Sure, some fudging idiots complain and get into players inboxes as well, and some boo and spout brick at our games. I'm against all that, it's obviously extremely counter productive, and I personally find it difficult to comprehend why people do it, when they know that will directly influence the play on the pitch. But to use a place like this to voice a critical opinion instead of pretending its all daisies and swans - I just don't see the big issue with that. We've pretty much criticised everyone and everything on here before! Even Harry Kane and Gareth Bale have gotten their share! So why the big fuss about critcising Ange?
 
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