Gazza
Jimmy Neighbour
I know, no need to over complicate it. The results don’t lie, he’s cooked. Move on.
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Ange in or out?
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
Daisuk
Luka Modric
All or nothing thinking, as psychiatry professor Dr David Burns would put it - it's either black or white, with no shades of gray in between. I personally do it a lot, with the diagnosis to match, but I'm learning to think in shades of gray (50, let's say!). I think a lot of football fans could benefit from doing the same. We are either all in or all out.
Ange wouldn't have been with us in the first place if he was completely clueless, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he went to say Wolves and did better for them than he's done here.
Jurgen the German
Steve Sedgley
I agree. Also think his comments around the time we played Emirates Marketing Project last season when a positive result would have done Arsenal a favour were tone deaf. He’s managed Celtic ffs! Surely he knows better than anyone how rivalries work.1
RigorMortis
Nicola Berti
I would agree with that. His results show that at a certain level he has proven to be competent.
That’s not the level he is currently employed at and i think the criticism he gets aligns to the level he is currently working at
RigorMortis
Nicola Berti
Exactly particularly after it came out a few weeks after a first half capitulation against Arsenal
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
After a lifetime of supporting this team, I've been finding myself less and less emotionally invested with every passing month. It's a feeling that had been growing with every season since Pochettino was sacked, and I had attributed it mainly to two things - 1) increasing dissatisfaction with Levy, his chairmanship and his corporatisation project, and 2) the dead hand of VAR systematically sucking all the joy and spontaneity out of the game - but the feeling of disengagement has intensified dramatically this season, and that can only be because of Postecoglou. Out, out, out, and regardless of results in the Europa League, even if he were somehow to fluke his way to winning it (which is not going to happen, but I wouldn't care one iota if it did).
tommysvr
Dean Richards
I was replying to a comment that said his reaction “shows someone with wrong temperament to be a football manager.”
Not a football manager at Spurs. Not a football manager in the Premier League. Not a football manager in England. “A football manager” full stop.
I found his remarks around that episode refreshingly honest. Just my opinion. And I admire his honesty in general. But ultimately this discussion on how Ange reacts to people giving him abuse is all a bit pointless. He’ll be judged on results, and I doubt if the hierarchy want another season like this so he’s unlikely to be here for much longer.
Silly McSilly Face
William Gallas
Yes because saying he is tactically naive doesn't stand up to scrutiny when he won a trophy in his second season at FC bush whacker croc huggers.
Robspur12
Frederic Kanoute
I genuinely don't dislike him mate; I am not that invested in him. But.. and I know you're not going to like this, I think (at this level) he is out of his depth on all the major attributes that are needed to be a successful football manager, tactics, managing injuries and temperament. And I say that because I believe there is evidence for repeated (not one off) failures in each area, they've been done to the death. That doesn't mean I hate him or that I disrespect the success he has had elsewhere or that he couldn't improve by managing elsewhere. Nor does it mean that I have lost my objectivity on the guy just because I have a particular opinion about him. There are plenty who think he can do no wrong. I don't think based on your posts that you are one of them although your defence of him, at times, is pretty strident.
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Robspur12
Frederic Kanoute
All or nothing is not just on the people who have voted Ange out! Have you read some of the posts of those who are still Ange in? At the end of the day, I believe you can still be objective and hold a position if you can back up that position with real evidence.
Baleforce
Vinnie Samways
I think that goes without saying, at this level.
Muttley
Niko Kranjcar
Whether we say "at this level" or something different like "in the PL environment", the question will always be there until he does well in the PL. That might be with or without us.
I actually don't think Conte was cut out for the PL. As a player, manager and international manager he had spent all but the 2 Chelsea seasons away from Italy when he joined Spurs. In his first season, he picked up Jose's amazing squad after the club doctor fiaso, and he disrupted the PL by playing 3 at the back and wing-backs. By the second half of the season Poch just matched him up and Dele did the rest. By Conte's second season he totally crashed and burned and didn't even make top 4. When you think about it, he did a mini version of that with us. He got us top 4 and then totally crashed and burned second season. He tried to implement his Serie A winning system in the PL. It failed badly eventually.
The thing is nobody said "at this level" about Conte but it was sort of true. The PL is much stronger than Serie A. As for Ange, he has never operated at this level including his domestic and international experience. The question is a totally fair one whether he can operate at the PL level as it also would be if he took over at somewhere like Athletico Madrid. La Liga is also a very impressive league.
What I think we've seen is a very good tactical system that needed adapting to the new environment and especially around the current players at his disposal. It didn't need major surgery, just some refinements. Ange would never experienced such effective counter play every week from the leagues he's operated in. The quality of football technicians is at a different level. It was totally there for him to reinvent the next generation of his football philosophy. Pep did in his second season. He studied what was happening and refined it. He has never stopped refining it to keep things fresh.
Ultimately, Ange has appeared to have chosen not to and just stuck with his prior methods. So did Conte. There will be no surprise in his exit from the club.
I actually don't think Conte was cut out for the PL. As a player, manager and international manager he had spent all but the 2 Chelsea seasons away from Italy when he joined Spurs. In his first season, he picked up Jose's amazing squad after the club doctor fiaso, and he disrupted the PL by playing 3 at the back and wing-backs. By the second half of the season Poch just matched him up and Dele did the rest. By Conte's second season he totally crashed and burned and didn't even make top 4. When you think about it, he did a mini version of that with us. He got us top 4 and then totally crashed and burned second season. He tried to implement his Serie A winning system in the PL. It failed badly eventually.
The thing is nobody said "at this level" about Conte but it was sort of true. The PL is much stronger than Serie A. As for Ange, he has never operated at this level including his domestic and international experience. The question is a totally fair one whether he can operate at the PL level as it also would be if he took over at somewhere like Athletico Madrid. La Liga is also a very impressive league.
What I think we've seen is a very good tactical system that needed adapting to the new environment and especially around the current players at his disposal. It didn't need major surgery, just some refinements. Ange would never experienced such effective counter play every week from the leagues he's operated in. The quality of football technicians is at a different level. It was totally there for him to reinvent the next generation of his football philosophy. Pep did in his second season. He studied what was happening and refined it. He has never stopped refining it to keep things fresh.
Ultimately, Ange has appeared to have chosen not to and just stuck with his prior methods. So did Conte. There will be no surprise in his exit from the club.
tommysvr
Dean Richards
Ok fair enough, but that's not what you said in the post I replied to. You said his reaction is proof he shouldn't be a football manager. I understand now that's not what you meant.
Jurgen the German
Steve Sedgley
I just thought it wouldn’t have killed him to say my job is to win games and to finish as high up in the table as possible, but I understand why the fanbase would have conflicting emotions about the match given the repercussions if we were to win or draw. Or something along those lines. But instead he chose to admonish the fans who weren’t thrilled about Arsenal winning the league as a result of us drawing or beating Emirates Marketing Project.
ricky2tricky4city
Dimitar Berbatov
I think to be objective it's a necessity to have real evidence?
Otherwise it's all subjective.
DeanoAustin
Les Ferdinand
Cannot agree with this at all. Conte won the league. He's an elite football manager, one of the best in the world.
The problem with Conte, IMO, is he has a very limited shelf life. By all accounts, he is just too intense and players stop listening after a while. Think Lloris said something like that in his book.
When you look at his record here, he did incredibly well to get us 4th first year and had us 4th when he combusted. I guess the context there is that we had played more than everyone else so 4th was kind of false but, on the flip side, he had a hell of a lot to deal with that year (healthwise and personally). He certainly had us in a much better position than we're currently in.
I lost a lot of respect for Conte because of how he conducted himself at the end. However, I believe he is one of the best at what he does.
Yes I completely understand that most of the time a non-confrontational bland response is the correct one. Just saying I found his honesty commendable but he probably chose the wrong time to do it.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Tom Huddlestone
"Football" a sporting game where competitors are either fantastic or s h I t, they are loved for a short period of time or hated for eternity. Appeals to the baser instincts of many "fans".