Ange in or out?

[Daisuk]

Ange is clearly done, but Levy is strategically waiting to sack him to avoid the spotlight. Nothing Levy does now can really change the tail end of the season anyway.

 

[thfcsteff]

If you want the adulation that comes with success in sports, you also need to handle the criticism and negativity when it comes your way.

I don’t have much sympathy, it’s part of the game. Without the extreme negativity, you probably wouldn’t experience the extreme positivity either. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and all that...

Not true.
The actions are increasingly disproportionate as society gets angrier in general and a swathe of young chancers look for their 'bantz' clips for social media.

How is it I have managed to feel extreme positivity for parts of decades towards my club and also avoided standing (protected) 60-70 feet away at most from people and not calling them cnuts, w-ankers, etc?
If we give in to that as part of some 'yin-yang' see-saw, we're on a bad path IMO!

 

[thfcsteff]

Much like the internet...ie a protective wall. Although I'm sure that learned behaviour seeps in to real world situations....anger, complaint, abuse it's a way of life these days.

Ange should not react though...there's nothing to gain.

Maybe get him a pair of those headphones you put on your little kid at the fireworks

I'm sure we agree on this...I don't believe he wants to react. But people can only take so much...

 

[thfcsteff]

You're right. The filming of it and the social media aspect is the toxic part.

What I always find sad though is that there is no true voice of the customer (VoX) in football. Not just Spurs obviously. The media get to ask questions and the manager gets to choose to answer them properly or not. What the pressers really need is a platform where fans questions make it to the foreground. After all, they are the ones paying for the product, not just all these middle men.

I could imagine at a presser, a fan question is read out along the lines of "There's been lots of question from fans on the website asking about your utilisation of the number 6 in your system. There is a strong sentiment that it may be costing us quite a few goals by not having anyone shielding in front of the back four. Can you share some perspectives?"

Or "The fans online are saying that the goal against AZ was the best goal of your Spurs tenure. Do you agree?"

Obviously, Ange would have been given these questions in advance and not be curve balled. For me, it would just create a better relationship with the fans. May not stop the idiots on the terraces, but at least having something front-ended through the official website that makes it to the pressers would show that the fan has a forum to ask questions.

I think that'd be an excellent thing, and it's a fantastic idea @Muttley. I always hoped the Supporters Trust and the Club would work together to that sort of end. I'll mention it on the pod at some point with full credit of course.

 

[DubSpur]

I honestly think that Mason would do a better job and improve our chances of the EL just by ending the immediate negativity and divisiveness that's built up around the Ange tenure, relax the players a bit more and tactically just make us less open and a but tougher to beat. And play the likes of Sonny and Maddison in roles that play to their strengths and protect their weaknesses. I think that could give us a far better platform to let our individual quality which still exists in those sort of plays be telling, particularly in the EL

If Mason is given the job till the end of the season there will still be negativity. There'll be loads of noise about how he's Levy's man and it's just a cheap option etc

 

[Baleforce]

If Mason is given the job till the end of the season there will still be negativity. There'll be loads of noise about how he's Levy's man and it's just a cheap option etc

there will be negativity until we are back in the CL

we just need to take the shortest path to that

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

If Mason is given the job till the end of the season there will still be negativity. There'll be loads of noise about how he's Levy's man and it's just a cheap option etc

Of course but the negativity surrounding Ange and Ange's tactics will cease and if results tick upwards other negativity will subside too

 

[Robspur12]

I find your viewpoint on this to be lacking in true context, and the 'schoolboy stuff' comment patronising (respect having been noted).
Thankfully, in daily life, this sort of verbal abuse is actually very rare, thus why we don't have your 'anarchy scenario. When it happens dozens and dozens of time, both in and not in person, it would wear anyone down. Put yourself in those shoes for a moment and see how thick your skin would be.

For context's sake I have faced abuse many times both for being of south Asian heritage and as a policeman. Sometimes for both. And remained professional and calm. So please don't patronise me about how thick or thin my skin is as you have no idea.

Edit I just want to add, one video showed a supporter shouting at Ange "You're f ING taking us down Ange.* That's not even abusive and he still reacted. That shows someone with wrong temperament to be a football manager.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Give Ange his credit. He ignored the first, what, 100 or so? Maybe more? Most people in daily life suffer (if they're unlucky) a few instances of verbal abuse in their lives. Most just about make it through without a fight. Most will respond verbally after one or two blasts.

I find your viewpoint on this to be lacking in true context, and the 'schoolboy stuff' comment patronising (respect having been noted).
Thankfully, in daily life, this sort of verbal abuse is actually very rare, thus why we don't have your 'anarchy scenario. When it happens dozens and dozens of time, both in and not in person, it would wear anyone down. Put yourself in those shoes for a moment and see how thick your skin would be.

I have to also say that for every incident of Ange filmed and immediately shared by some helpful internet w-anker, you can likely find the same amount for most managers under any form of pressure. Whether you think it is right or wrong, it is a human reaction to repeated abuse.

With that all said....I'm now going to put myself in Daniel Levy's shoes.

 

[Muttley]

I believe Southgate was the first to do that at the 2018 World Cup so as he could Lindgaard in the mix with Sterling and Kane. Dele was pretty good at it, albeit we lost his true inate ability to drift in the half-space off the shoulder.

Not the way a lot of us travelling fans saw it actually. I went to Moscow. We were sick of Southgate not being able to put a decent back four together so he used his comfort blanket of a fifth defender. That all started way before the world cup. He then put a right-footed wing back in Ashley Young. Worse still, he then allowed Maguire to constantly pull Young into the middle and mark whilst making himself a free man (along with Stones). Poor old Dele, Hendo and Lingard had to chase shadows like crazy because of the stupid tactics. Of course, Modric spotted the issue and they cleaned up down our left in the second half of the Croatia match. It was overload city.

Dele, Lingard and Hendo were magnificent in the semi-final. So was Sterling to be fair who could have 2 or 3 of them booked in the Croatia first half by his direct running. Kane had a decent game as well. A proper ref on that pitch and we win that game, even though we weren't up to much in the latter stages.

Dele was a very versatile player. I remember his performance at 6 against Dortmund. Poch had clearly seen the absences happening and got Dele into a headspace where he was fantastic ahead of Jan and Toby.

 

[DTA]

I was sitting in one of the front few rows of the West Stand at WHL one day - game was against Bournemouth, I think.

There was a break in the play for injury. Bloke behind me, who had been on at Nacer Chadli all afternoon, began to give him a coaching session.

He was telling him what he was doing wrong and said, "You need to come out wider, you're not playing to your strengths."

Chadli was standing listening to him, giving him direct eye contact...and he moved further out towards the by-line for the restart, as instructed, much to the amusement of the crowd around us.

A couple of times later in the half, at throw-ins, the bloke stood up again telling Chaldi where he should stand - both times (whether by coincidence or not) Chadli moved into the positions indicated by the fan.

Was very funny!

Did it work? As in was it effective?

 

[Mikey10]

Did it work? As in was it effective?

I think we won.

But my memory for results and the details of games is f ucking awful tbh. Only remembered the incidents as they were very funny and very unusual.

 

[Jurgen the German]

...do you not accept that Jose did nothing to help him, and in fact, humiliated him? Or is that revisionism in your eyes?

Alli was starting to go backwards for a number of years even before Jose took over. Even if his “tough love” approach made things worse, he should have been dropped ages before. I’m still amazed that Lucas Moura didn’t start the CL final given the hot streak he was on and Alli started when he was largely ineffective in terms of being a goal threat for a number of months. I don’t blame poch at all for starting Kane despite not being fit. He was damned whether he started him or not, but no excuse for not starting Moura in that game. And he didn’t even tell him tell him he was dropped according to Moura himself.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I haven’t followed Iraola’s press conferences and interviews recently. He has constantly referenced injuries or used them as a crutch like Ange has all season?

 

[tommysvr]

For context's sake I have faced abuse many times both for being of south Asian heritage and as a policeman. Sometimes for both. And remained professional and calm. So please don't patronise me about how thick or thin my skin is as you have no idea.

Edit I just want to add, one video showed a supporter shouting at Ange "You're f ING taking us down Ange.* That's not even abusive and he still reacted. That shows someone with wrong temperament to be a football manager.

Come on mate. What's he been doing his whole life then? You obviously made your mind up a long time ago but your dislike for Ange can surely be kept objective enough to not come out with stuff like this?

 

[RigorMortis]

No we played four decent teams and four 'lesser' teams same as everyone else. We struggled yet won 5 out of 8 games and drew 2....must be the luckiest side going. Apparently the argument was results are all that matters when earlier in the season we lost games we didn't deserve to. So, in Europe we have been getting results under Ange this season end of. That's not me saying we will win it, but there is nothing about our results in Europe this season that have been a concern....

I would say the way we got pulled apart by galatasary and our abject performance against AZ in the first leg, we also got outplayed by Rangers and drew with Roma at home. We have not been as utterly abject as we have in the league but there’s nothing to fill us with confidence that when we come up against a decent team over two legs that we will beat them

 

[RigorMortis]

Come on mate. What's he been doing his whole life then? You obviously made your mind up a long time ago but your dislike for Ange can surely be kept objective enough to not come out with stuff like this?

Has he had the level of scrutiny he has had here?
I don’t agree with some of the abuse he has had ( not the leicster one though which wasn’t that bad) but it’s not different to other managers under pressure and others have had it much worse. He should show self restraint particularly when he claims not to be bothered with criticism.

In my opinion he does not react well to his methods being questioned and he becomes increasingly more antagonistic.

 

[tommysvr]

Has he had the level of scrutiny he has had here?
I don’t agree with some of the abuse he has had ( not the leicster one though which wasn’t that bad) but it’s not different to other managers under pressure and others have had it much worse. He should show self restraint particularly when he claims not to be bothered with criticism.

In my opinion he does not react well to his methods being questioned and he becomes increasingly more antagonistic.

It doesn't matter. Saying "that shows someone with wrong temperament to be a football manager" based on a couple of incidents is ridiculous.

 

[RigorMortis]

It doesn't matter. Saying "that shows someone with wrong temperament to be a football manager" based on a couple of incidents is ridiculous.

Maybe reword it as the wrong temprement to operate at this level. I do have sympathy for Ange here but he simply has reacted to managing times in an negative manner and without the results to back it up it does open the door for crticism

 

[tommysvr]

Maybe reword it as the wrong temprement to operate at this level. I do have sympathy for Ange here but he simply has reacted to managing times in an negative manner and without the results to back it up it does open the door for crticism

I’m just not sure what more a manager has to achieve to be considered capable of managing a team?

You may think he’s not good enough for Spurs or any other Premier League team. But there is a lot of room between that and “clueless,” “the wrong temperament to be a manager” and all the other mud that gets slung his way.