Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[glorygloryeze]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

A bit of both. Some players regressed last season ( Ade, BAE, Lennon) some this season, mainly after AVB blunders (Lloris, Naughton, Verts, Daws).

Lennon didn't regress last season; in fact you could say our fight for 4th place was dented when he was out. In fact the level he could get to was probably linked to how much he had to hold Walker's hand; it's strange you say Lennon regressed but Walker improved??!!

All those players who you say regressed THIS season were in the 'ascendancy' by the end of last season, so as I say you are being a bit unfair to group all these as one and say overall that these players regressed under AVB. Like last autumn many of those players were having bad patches and improved as the season went on. It would be fair to say that it was possible that by the end of this under AVB they would have improved again.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Lennon didn't regress last season; in fact you could say our fight for 4th place was dented when he was out. In fact the level he could get to was probably linked to how much he had to hold Walker's hand; it's strange you say Lennon regressed but Walker improved??!!

All those players who you say regressed THIS season were in the 'ascendancy' by the end of last season, so as I say you are being a bit unfair to group all these as one and say overall that these players regressed under AVB. Like last autumn many of those players were having bad patches and improved as the season went on. It would be fair to say that it was possible that by the end of this under AVB they would have improved again.

So Lennon was better last season, than in his pomp. Absolute balderdash IMO.

All the players could become world beaters. They are intrinsically good/ great players. did AVB get the best out of them. No. In my view, under AVB there was little to no likelihood of this happening.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

So Lennon was better last season, than in his pomp. Absolute balderdash IMO.

All the players could become world beaters. They are intrinsically good/ great players. did AVB get the best out of them. No. In my view, under AVB there was little to no likelihood of this happening.

When was Lennon last in his 'pomp'? Please don't tell me that was in 2011/12, when he in the end when not injured flopped like the rest of them post February.

Many players played well under AVB last season, as you say they are intrinsically good players but apart from Bale who were/are these potential worldbeaters?

By the way you speak we should be in the top 2!

 

[Rossi22]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Walker regressed big time under AVB but seems to have returned to his 11/12 level this season. Also you can't really put Townsend in there considering there's no form beforehand to compare to, but for the loan to QPR he probably wouldn't be here now.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

When was Lennon last in his 'pomp'? Please don't tell me that was in 2011/12, when he in the end when not injured flopped like the rest of them post February.

Many players played well under AVB last season, as you say they are intrinsically good players but apart from Bale who were/are these potential worldbeaters?

By the way you speak we should be in the top 2!

So, the ONLY player you take issue with is Lennon. Do you think he played well under AVB? Because I don't. Even if what you say is true, it doesn't invalidate my wider point that more players regressed under AVB than improved. You have offered absolutely no evidence that they were likely to come good under AVB. And don't give me any regression to mean nonsense. If this were to happen, it will be true for anyone who is the coach.

What special coaching attributes did AVB have? Personally, I can't see any.

Pass sideways?

Conserve energy?

Players not in best positions?

Man management?

Tactical awareness?

Good substitutions?

Dead ball creativity?

Fitness?

Doesn't score high for me in any of these areas.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Walker regressed big time under AVB but seems to have returned to his 11/12 level this season. Also you can't really put Townsend in there considering there's no form beforehand to compare to, but for the loan to QPR he probably wouldn't be here now.

These two observations, lead to an even greater imbalance in the AVB balance sheet !!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

So, the ONLY player you take issue with is Lennon. Do you think he played well under AVB? Because I don't. Even if what you say is true, it doesn't invalidate my wider point that more players regressed under AVB than improved. You have offered absolutely no evidence that they were likely to come good under AVB. And don't give me any regression to mean nonsense. If this were to happen, it will be true for anyone who is the coach.

What special coaching attributes did AVB have? Personally, I can't see any.

Pass sideways?

Conserve energy?

Players not in best positions?

Man management?

Tactical awareness?

Good substitutions?

Dead ball creativity?

Fitness?

Doesn't score high for me in any of these areas.

Let me just deal with AVB's first season, 2012-13.
You remember when we continuously conceded late goals which often led to dropped points?
The culmination of which was the Everton away match in December 2012 when we snatched a defeat from the jaws of Victory.

After that we went on a 12 game unbeaten run where we became very defensively solid and in fact scored late goals ourselves instead. We only lost two games between early December and May and those came immediately after EL games. In fact I would say between December and May apart from Bale the following players had generally good performances that were improvements on those given at the beginning of that season:

- Siggy (he became more important from mid-Feb onwards with several key gaols/assists)
- Verts (became widely recognised as one of the best CBs in the PL)
- Dempsey (became more effective as the season went on; didn't look great but he was damn more effective when he did play compared to at the early stages of the season)
- Lloris (went from strength to strength between December and May, no doubt about it)

I would say some players regressed somewhat in the December to May period:

-Dembele (after a great start to his Spurs career, he did become generally less effective onec Sandro became injured and he instead had to play alongside a willing but headless Parker)
- Dawson
- Defoe (well he is what he is..)

I would say Lennon was pretty effective when he wasn't injured, but again I ask you when was his pomp? I just want to know what period of games/year etc you are referring to here when you say Lennon wasn't very good last year.

In 2012/13 after the defeat against Everton in December we lost 2 games out of 22. A very good points haul you'd have to agree.

We went from a team that leaked late goals to one that scored late gaols instead, salvaging many unlikely draws and late wins (Norwich away, Saudi Sportswashing Machine home, West Ham away, Everton home, Emirates Marketing Project home, Wigan away (a dog****e performance btw), Soton home, Chelski away, Stoke away, Sunderland home).
Yes, many of these were Bale specials, but in the past how many of those would we have instead lost? You've no doubt been a Spurs fan for a long time and you KNOW what often happened in these kinds of games in the past...
So I would say this showed me that AVB had built up some never-say-die resilience from December until May.

He made often very good substitutions as well and I think it's unfair of you to TOTALLY dismiss this part of his sadly (for me) short reign.
Plus there were some quite brilliant performances imo as well:

- Aston Villa away
- Sunderland away
- Man utd home
- West ham away
- Arsenal home
- Liverpool away (I know we lost but some of our play was excellent but for full-back absolute dumbness!)
- Emirates Marketing Project home (last half hour)
- Chelski away (last twenty minutes after we hung on in there and ground them down for once)

This season has been very disappointing, especially when compared to last season but that should make you totally dismiss last season's near-miss of achieving a top 4 finish

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

When was Lennon last in his 'pomp'? Please don't tell me that was in 2011/12, when he in the end when not injured flopped like the rest of them post February.

Many players played well under AVB last season, as you say they are intrinsically good players but apart from Bale who were/are these potential worldbeaters?

By the way you speak we should be in the top 2!

I would say 2009/10. Easily his best season. I don't attach much, if any blame to AVB for not getting the best out of Lennon, he is what he is, a 4/5 goal a season injury prone winger who has bursts of 10-15 great games but has never had a truly great season in my opinion.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I wanted to ask a question regarding AVB's last press conference as boss.

He was asked by a reporter about the summer signings/quality of squad. He then said 'not sure I can make this public' and basically seemed to suggest that many of the signing were not of his wanting. This was likely the straw that broke the camel's back for Levy/Baldini.

Looking back he walked right into that 'trap' of a question and perhaps his P45 was written a minute later.

By how was that 'trap' even set?? Was the reporter Neil Ashton btw?
Whoever it was why did they ask that question in the first place?? It seems looking back a set-up for AVB to naive sign his own death-warrant.
Was that not the first time such a question had come up in a press conference or in any analysis about AVB and the team's poor form/underwhelming play in the season so far?
I'm pretty sure that was never being discussed in the media before, so why were they discussing it then for the first time and in a press conference??

If AVB felt that, or somebody at the club knew he felt that way, how did those thoughts become public at that conference??

Something is fishy with that one for me:-k

Thoughts??

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Also, exactly why would Baldini supposedly offer his resignation after AVB was fired??

Some reports in the media say he didn't think AVB was that good, and that he had a good impression of him before he came to the club but once he got there he was like 'actually this guy's a bit meh.'

Some say that he was in support of AVB until the last meeting when AVB's belligerent attitude made Levy fire him when he originally hadn't intended to.

If Baldini did offer to resign, perhaps he was mainly pro-AVB??

 

[metalgear]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I wanted to ask a question regarding AVB's last press conference as boss.

He was asked by a reporter about the summer signings/quality of squad. He then said 'not sure I can make this public' and basically seemed to suggest that many of the signing were not of his wanting. This was likely the straw that broke the camel's back for Levy/Baldini.

Looking back he walked right into that 'trap' of a question and perhaps his P45 was written a minute later.

By how was that 'trap' even set?? Was the reporter Neil Ashton btw?
Whoever it was why did they ask that question in the first place?? It seems looking back a set-up for AVB to naive sign his own death-warrant.
Was that not the first time such a question had come up in a press conference or in any analysis about AVB and the team's poor form/underwhelming play in the season so far?
I'm pretty sure that was never being discussed in the media before, so why were they discussing it then for the first time and in a press conference??

If AVB felt that, or somebody at the club knew he felt that way, how did those thoughts become public at that conference??

Something is fishy with that one for me:-k

Thoughts??

same general sentiment here but i didn't go as far as you.

i think avb set up the team stubbornly to prove that he lacked certain players he wanted - and paid the price dearly for it.

i may have been that press conference that broke the camel's back - however I wouldn't go so far to say AVB was "set up". But I think he had an idea of what the Jan transfers would have been, and disagreed with it. the key to this is baldini's role in the whole matter... did he really have influence over transfers...if so why did he leave us with a lopsided squad...and wouldn't he be planning for succession across the U21 to first team - both players and management/coaching staff?

guess we won't know until someone comes out with a tell-all autobiography.

....speaking of which i just received AVB's "I'm special too" book in the post from a backorder months ago... should i read it ? #-o

 

[billyiddo]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Walker regressed big time under AVB but seems to have returned to his 11/12 level this season. Also you can't really put Townsend in there considering there's no form beforehand to compare to, but for the loan to QPR he probably wouldn't be here now.

Walker only really played well for the first half of the 11/12 season and dropped dramatically from around Jan onward - harsh to attribute his 'regression' to AVB when it started long before he arrived, imv

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Still find it hard to accept and understand the sacking of AVB. Wish AVB or Levy will come out and explain the situations that resulted in this decision. Find it hard to accept that Levy decided to sack AVB after selling Bale and signing so many players, so early in the season, when we were just a few points away from the top 4.

It would be silly if Levy decided to sack AVB just because of the 0-5 defeat to Liverpool. You have to understand the situation regarding that humiliating defeat. We were using a makeshift defence due to injury to Vertonghen, then lost our best midfielder Sandro to injury, then lost virtually our entire midfield after we replaced Dembele and Paulinho got red carded stupidly. It is not surprising that Liverpool scored 3 goals against 10-men after that. Find it amazing that the media never mention all those facts.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Still find it hard to accept and understand the sacking of AVB. Wish AVB or Levy will come out and explain the situations that resulted in this decision. Find it hard to accept that Levy decided to sack AVB after selling Bale and signing so many players, so early in the season, when we were just a few points away from the top 4.

It would be silly if Levy decided to sack AVB just because of the 0-5 defeat to Liverpool. You have to understand the situation regarding that humiliating defeat. We were using a makeshift defence due to injury to Vertonghen, then lost our best midfielder Sandro to injury, then lost virtually our entire midfield after we replaced Dembele and Paulinho got red carded stupidly. It is not surprising that Liverpool scored 3 goals against 10-men after that. Find it amazing that the media never mention all those facts.

Mate, it really WASNT just a one off though was it? If it had been, then there were mitigating circumstances as you say. But you have to look at AVB's whole tenure and his increasingly bizarre decisions of late.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Still find it hard to accept and understand the sacking of AVB. Wish AVB or Levy will come out and explain the situations that resulted in this decision. Find it hard to accept that Levy decided to sack AVB after selling Bale and signing so many players, so early in the season, when we were just a few points away from the top 4.

It would be silly if Levy decided to sack AVB just because of the 0-5 defeat to Liverpool. You have to understand the situation regarding that humiliating defeat. We were using a makeshift defence due to injury to Vertonghen, then lost our best midfielder Sandro to injury, then lost virtually our entire midfield after we replaced Dembele and Paulinho got red carded stupidly. It is not surprising that Liverpool scored 3 goals against 10-men after that. Find it amazing that the media never mention all those facts.

We also lost 6-0 to City, if you recall. It wasn't a one-off, and I hope the story of AVB's sacking doesn't become 'oh, he was sacked because of one game'. There were much deeper problems running through our squad that he has to take at least some of the blame for.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I have no doubt we'd be in a cup semi final and be 2 points better off if AVB was still manager. The whole situation is a ****ing joke. I hope there was stuff behind the scenes, because it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

Come back AVB everything is forgiven

 

[Stiff_Swede]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I have no doubt we'd be in a cup semi final and be 2 points better off if AVB was still manager. The whole situation is a ****ing joke. I hope there was stuff behind the scenes, because it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

+1 The club is in free fall at the moment, with an amateur (Tim Sherwood) manager.

 

[AdamB]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I have no doubt we'd be in a cup semi final and be 2 points better off if AVB was still manager. The whole situation is a ****ing joke. I hope there was stuff behind the scenes, because it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

AVB deserved to go, however that doesn't make TS the right appointment. I can easily see a scenario where Sherwood is gone by the end of Feb, however if that happens, it still doesn't mean that sacking AVB was the wrong thing to do.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: AVB Sacked page 224

I've never hidden my opinion about Redknapp's sacking being the right one at the time, but f*ck me, writing Tim Sherwood off after three games? Well then, we'd be Champions League at the moment if we'd kept Redknapp and never hired that clueless Portuguese tosser AVB.


That 'We'd be better off with AVB' logic can be easily twisted around. Last season, we'd have played flowing, devil-may-care football under a media darling instead of a grim, joyless slog punctuated by moments of quality from an 80 million man. This season, we'd have at least created a couple of chances instead of falling to 5-0 and 6-0 defeats, having the worst home record of any of our rivals and looking impotent, terrified to go forward and inept at the back during the last games of AVB's inept, utterly uninspired reign.

It is very, very easy to turn that argument around. I understood what AVB was trying to achieve, and I was sad he was never able to implement it. Equally, I was happy we sacked Redknapp at the time because I felt he'd pushed Levy too far with his duplicitous manuevering after the CL final, and probably still am. But don't pretend that things would have been better under AVB: for all my admiration of the man, I can accept that he was doing a lot of things wrong, and I suspect we'd be exactly the same under him as we are at the moment, considering that this is the man who needed penalties to scrape past Hull at home and lost to Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home, among other things.